"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "michael adams" contains these words:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...

And someone has just kindly
sent us some Crocosmia called 'Culzean Pink'. How was I to know that
it's first name is pronounced 'Killhane'!


The "z" in Culzeal as in many Scottish names - Menzies, "Dalziel" in
"Dalziel and Pascoe" often represents the archaic letter yogh.

quote

yogh /jg/ n. ME. [Origin unkn.] The letter , originally a loose writing
of g in Old English but developing in Middle English as a distinct
letter
to represent a palatal semivowel (/j/) initially and medially, a voiced
velar or palatal fricative medially, and a voiceless velar or palatal
fricative medially and finally. In later Middle English it was replaced
by silent gh, y, and medial and final w. The letter z in some Scottish
words (now chiefly place-names and surnames), such as Menzies /--/,
Kirkgunzeon /--/, is an adaptation of yogh.

---------------------------------------------------------
Oxford English Dictionary C/D
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

/quote

Although quite how you get "Killhane" out of that little lot, is
another matter. I'm still working on "Dalziel" and "Menzies" myself.

Thanks for that, I've never heard of yogh before. The stuff you learn
here!!

Culzean is pronounced Kullane.

Menzies is a bit trickier. I've heard some Scots pronounce it Minnus,
but most include the faintest hint of a hard g in the middle, Minn(g)
us. (would that be the palatal fricative above? ) Hence, men with the
forename Menzies are sometimes abbreviated to nickname Ming (like the
politician Menzies Campbell, always known as Ming Campbell).
Abbreviation Ming definitely has a harder more definite G, as in sing.
It's never Minn.

AFAIK Dalziel is always Dee-ell ( as in Pascoe, and MP Tam Dalziel)


Thanks. I'd never thought of that. Tam Dalzeil in Scottish. Or more formerly
"Sir Thomas Dalyell of the Binns" in English. Or the half-and-half and thus
rather unsatisfactory to a purist, Tam Dalyell. As noted in the Crossman
Diaries published in 75, recording events of 1964, T.D being his P.P.S.
Which seems to have stuck.


michael adams

....






Janet