Hope I might be able to get some ideas or recommendations...

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
around 35 degrees (going up from my property) to a height of around 30
feet to a hedge and substation the other side.

The land is composed of a rough soil mixed with bricks, coal ash /
clinker and stone. The only things growing are dandelions etc. The
depth of the waste appears to be at least 6 feet (I believe its from
an old mill clearance, bulldozed out of the way in the 80's to build
the houses), so clearance to 'real earth' is out of the question.

The land has had Japanese knotweed on it which has (after 4 years of
work, lots of weed killer and a large garden incinerator) been brought
under control, so clearance off site would not be practical given the
costs likely for disposal

So - my problem is how to develop the land to garden. At the moment my
thought is to terrace into levels and put a layer (12 inches ? 18
inches ???) of compost / soil and grow in that. I am really not sure
how to go about this - can anyone advise on the correct levels of
compost / soil I would need, depths to work to, or recommend any books
for developing a garden on what I suppose is a 'brown field site'.

Or for that matter, any other thoughts / ideas from the gardening
community on getting this land workable ?

Thanks in advance

Steve

The message
from Fevets contains these words:

Hope I might be able to get some ideas or recommendations...

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
around 35 degrees (going up from my property) to a height of around 30
feet to a hedge and substation the other side.

The land is composed of a rough soil mixed with bricks, coal ash /
clinker and stone. The only things growing are dandelions etc. The
depth of the waste appears to be at least 6 feet (I believe its from
an old mill clearance, bulldozed out of the way in the 80's to build
the houses), so clearance to 'real earth' is out of the question.

So - my problem is how to develop the land to garden. At the moment my
thought is to terrace into levels and put a layer (12 inches ? 18
inches ???) of compost / soil and grow in that. I am really not sure
how to go about this - can anyone advise on the correct levels of
compost / soil I would need, depths to work to, or recommend any books
for developing a garden on what I suppose is a 'brown field site'.

The fact that dandelions and knotweed grow, shows that there's enough
soil to support plants and seedlings. Unless you are exceedingly rich
don't attempt to change it. Garden with what you've got, it makes a lot
more sense, and you will be following the footsteps of some of the UK's
greatest gardens. Use the conditions you have, grow the kind of plants
which will thrive superbly in those conditions. (Somewhere, some
desperate millionaire is spending a fortune to construct a rocky scree
slope like the one you've been blessed with).

You haven't said where you are (in the UK), what elevation above
sealevel, and which way the garden faces.(North /south, sunny/shaded)
That would be helpful before we all launch into plant suggestions.

Janet

Hi, maybe not exactly the info you're looking for but the RHS magazine 'The Garden' had a really interesting feature in it recently about a study of plants experimentally grown on various diferent piles of 'waste material', ie broken bricks, cement etc. Lots of things will thrive apparently! It was one of the later issues of last year, maybe September or October. Perhaps you might be able to chase this up and work out a way to not use any top soil at all!

Cheers, Bob

The message
from Fevets contains these words:

Hope I might be able to get some ideas or recommendations...

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
around 35 degrees (going up from my property) to a height of around 30
feet to a hedge and substation the other side.

The land is composed of a rough soil mixed with bricks, coal ash /
clinker and stone. The only things growing are dandelions etc. The
depth of the waste appears to be at least 6 feet (I believe its from
an old mill clearance, bulldozed out of the way in the 80's to build
the houses), so clearance to 'real earth' is out of the question.

The land has had Japanese knotweed on it which has (after 4 years of
work, lots of weed killer and a large garden incinerator) been brought
under control, so clearance off site would not be practical given the
costs likely for disposal

So - my problem is how to develop the land to garden. At the moment my
thought is to terrace into levels and put a layer (12 inches ? 18
inches ???) of compost / soil and grow in that. I am really not sure
how to go about this - can anyone advise on the correct levels of
compost / soil I would need, depths to work to, or recommend any books
for developing a garden on what I suppose is a 'brown field site'.

Or for that matter, any other thoughts / ideas from the gardening
community on getting this land workable ?

Coo! You've got a job on your hands, and no mistake.

Firstly, you don't say which part of the country you are in, though when
you say 'old mill', the odds on somewherre north of Watford begin to
stack up.

Your problem will be drainage - too much of it - and the only thing
which springs to mind for that sort of a situation is grape vines.

You might begin to 'landscape' your plot by excavating to the original
soil, a bit at a time, and using some of the stone for building
features, dry stone walls, etc, and maybe selling the excess or getting
a builder to exchange it for subsoil and topsoil.

If I were forty years younger...

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Fevets wrote:
Hope I might be able to get some ideas or recommendations...

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
around 35 degrees (going up from my property) to a height of around 30
feet to a hedge and substation the other side.

The land is composed of a rough soil mixed with bricks, coal ash /
clinker and stone. The only things growing are dandelions etc. The
depth of the waste appears to be at least 6 feet (I believe its from
an old mill clearance, bulldozed out of the way in the 80's to build
the houses), so clearance to 'real earth' is out of the question.

The land has had Japanese knotweed on it which has (after 4 years of
work, lots of weed killer and a large garden incinerator) been brought
under control, so clearance off site would not be practical given the
costs likely for disposal

So - my problem is how to develop the land to garden. At the moment my
thought is to terrace into levels and put a layer (12 inches ? 18
inches ???) of compost / soil and grow in that. I am really not sure
how to go about this - can anyone advise on the correct levels of
compost / soil I would need, depths to work to, or recommend any books
for developing a garden on what I suppose is a 'brown field site'.


PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so grass
competition will not be an issue

pk

http://www.rspb.org.uk/gardens/guide...meadowarea.asp
Meadow area
Wild flower meadows are extraordinarily beautiful and teeming with wildlife:
spiders spinning webs, caterpillars munching leaves, butterflies and moths
supping nectar, all sorts of bees gathering pollen, birds foraging for
insects and seeds and small mammals searching for food. Such meadows are
usually created by a particular pattern of mowing and grazing. Cattle graze
in the winter, then, in spring, the plants are allowed to grow, flower and
set seed. In June the meadow is cut for hay.

Nowadays wild flower meadows are extremely rare - we have lost 95% in the
last 50 years. Planting one in your garden will really help local wildlife.
Make the most of your garden
a.. Cordon off a sunny area of lawn and don't mow it. If your lawn is
weedy, some wild flowers will thrive. But for a true wild flower meadow you
must have poor soil. Most gardens have too many nutrients, and you may need
to remove some topsoil.
b.. Mow a winding grass path to allow access to the meadow and other parts
of the garden.
c.. Remove all clippings and never add fertiliser to your wild flower
meadow.

In message , p.k.
writes

PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so
grass competition will not be an issue

Are you sure? He's getting dandelions on it now. Won't they continue to
be a problem in a wildflower meadow?
--
Kay

Kay Easton wrote:
In message , p.k.
writes

PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so
grass competition will not be an issue

Are you sure? He's getting dandelions on it now. Won't they continue
to be a problem in a wildflower meadow?

He'll need to kill out the weeds (glyphosate) but the general soil
conditions are spot on!
pk

The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
/snip/
^^^^^^^^^^
You haven't said where you are (in the UK), what elevation above
sealevel, and which way the garden faces.(North /south, sunny/shaded)
That would be helpful before we all launch into plant suggestions.



--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from "p.k." contains these words:
Kay Easton wrote:
In message , p.k.
writes

PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so
grass competition will not be an issue

Are you sure? He's getting dandelions on it now. Won't they continue
to be a problem in a wildflower meadow?

He'll need to kill out the weeds (glyphosate) but the general soil
conditions are spot on!

Not IMO - it will dry out much too easily.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:59:04 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:

In message , p.k.
writes

PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so
grass competition will not be an issue

Are you sure? He's getting dandelions on it now. Won't they continue to
be a problem in a wildflower meadow?


It was a thought that i had looked at - chuck a load of wildflower mix
on and hope, but my taste is, shall we say, towards a little more
structure - wild flower meadows etc, to me, looks a bit 'messy' - must
a control freak gene in me !!!

thanks for the advise though...

Steve

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:56:30 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Fevets contains these words:

Hope I might be able to get some ideas or recommendations...

I have patch of land around .5 acres, south facing and sloping at
around 35 degrees (going up from my property) to a height of around 30
feet to a hedge and substation the other side.

The land is composed of a rough soil mixed with bricks, coal ash /
clinker and stone. The only things growing are dandelions etc. The
depth of the waste appears to be at least 6 feet (I believe its from
an old mill clearance, bulldozed out of the way in the 80's to build
the houses), so clearance to 'real earth' is out of the question.

So - my problem is how to develop the land to garden. At the moment my
thought is to terrace into levels and put a layer (12 inches ? 18
inches ???) of compost / soil and grow in that. I am really not sure
how to go about this - can anyone advise on the correct levels of
compost / soil I would need, depths to work to, or recommend any books
for developing a garden on what I suppose is a 'brown field site'.

The fact that dandelions and knotweed grow, shows that there's enough
soil to support plants and seedlings. Unless you are exceedingly rich
don't attempt to change it. Garden with what you've got, it makes a lot
more sense, and you will be following the footsteps of some of the UK's
greatest gardens. Use the conditions you have, grow the kind of plants
which will thrive superbly in those conditions. (Somewhere, some
desperate millionaire is spending a fortune to construct a rocky scree
slope like the one you've been blessed with).

You haven't said where you are (in the UK), what elevation above
sealevel, and which way the garden faces.(North /south, sunny/shaded)
That would be helpful before we all launch into plant suggestions.

Janet

Thanks Janet.

Location is north of Manchetser, elevation maybe 300 feet above sea
level and south facing. My ideal is a more controlled garden than,
say, wild flower meadow - the big problem is not so much it being a
rockey scree - the 'rocky' bit consists of anything from lumps of
concrete to old acrington brick, with occasional large pockets of cola
slag / ash and clinker....

My real ideal would be find a way of putting veg onto parts of this -
which goes back to my thoughts of terracing and re-soiling (maybe over
a membrane)....Assuming my will power, budget and back all stands up
to the work !

Regards

Steve

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:16:38 +0000, undergroundbob
wrote:


Hi, maybe not exactly the info you're looking for but the RHS magazine
'The Garden' had a really interesting feature in it recently about a
study of plants experimentally grown on various diferent piles of
'waste material', ie broken bricks, cement etc. Lots of things will
thrive apparently! It was one of the later issues of last year, maybe
September or October. Perhaps you might be able to chase this up and
work out a way to not use any top soil at all!

Cheers, Bob


Thanks Bob - i'll look into getting back issues...

Steve

The message
from Steve Fitton contains these words:

My real ideal would be find a way of putting veg onto parts of this -
which goes back to my thoughts of terracing and re-soiling (maybe over
a membrane)....Assuming my will power, budget and back all stands up
to the work !


That sounds the option for the short term, but it will mean a lot of
work, and you might just as well use the energy in removing a lot of the
rubble - a bit at a time.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:55:55 +0000, Steve Fitton wrote
(in article ):

snip

Location is north of Manchetser, elevation maybe 300 feet above sea
level and south facing. My ideal is a more controlled garden than,
say, wild flower meadow - the big problem is not so much it being a
rockey scree - the 'rocky' bit consists of anything from lumps of
concrete to old acrington brick, with occasional large pockets of cola
slag / ash and clinker....

My real ideal would be find a way of putting veg onto parts of this -
which goes back to my thoughts of terracing and re-soiling (maybe over
a membrane)....Assuming my will power, budget and back all stands up
to the work !

Have you visited the Centre for Alternative Technology at Macchynleth?
http://www.cat.org.uk. They have a garden created on the site of an old
slate quarry, with terracing. You might get some useful ideas there and it's
well worth a visit.



--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

I
The message
from "p.k." contains these words:
Kay Easton wrote:
In message , p.k.
writes

PEFECT conditions fo a wild flower meadow - low nutrient/fertility so
grass competition will not be an issue

Are you sure? He's getting dandelions on it now. Won't they continue
to be a problem in a wildflower meadow?

He'll need to kill out the weeds (glyphosate) but the general soil
conditions are spot on!

Will the other wildflowers be enough to crowd out the dandelion
seedlings?
--
Kay