During my last passage in my ancestral home (SW France) for Xmas, my
entire childhood flashed before my eyes as I was given - for the first
time in years - ripe kaki fruit to eat.
Many of the local gardens and orchards have one or more of those, and
as few people used to eat them, we kids used to gorge around Nov/Dec
each year on the soft, incredibly exotically sweet orange juicy flesh.
In a fierce fit of virulent nostalgia, I promised myself to try and
plant one one in my garden (East Midlands of Ireland).
Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

TIA

Cat(h)

Cat(h) wrote:
During my last passage in my ancestral home (SW France) for Xmas, my
entire childhood flashed before my eyes as I was given - for the first
time in years - ripe kaki fruit to eat.
Many of the local gardens and orchards have one or more of those, and
as few people used to eat them, we kids used to gorge around Nov/Dec
each year on the soft, incredibly exotically sweet orange juicy flesh.
In a fierce fit of virulent nostalgia, I promised myself to try and
plant one one in my garden (East Midlands of Ireland).
Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

I'm from Bordeaux. The ones you've perhaps tasted are the easiest ones
to grow, beside China, Israel etc. and are suitable to lower
temperatures, is those 3 varieties: Hatchya, Muscat and Pomme. However,
you must realise that these are grown in full sunshine during whole
days! As far as the East Midlands of Ireland is concerned - I couldn't
tell how suitable it is.

I didn't like them when I was little - I liked figs and prunes, but
didn't like plaqueminiers (kaki's French name), because I was scared to
find an earwig in them )

La Puce wrote:

Cat(h) wrote:
During my last passage in my ancestral home (SW France) for Xmas, my
entire childhood flashed before my eyes as I was given - for the first
time in years - ripe kaki fruit to eat.
Many of the local gardens and orchards have one or more of those, and
as few people used to eat them, we kids used to gorge around Nov/Dec
each year on the soft, incredibly exotically sweet orange juicy flesh.
In a fierce fit of virulent nostalgia, I promised myself to try and
plant one one in my garden (East Midlands of Ireland).
Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

I'm from Bordeaux. The ones you've perhaps tasted are the easiest ones
to grow, beside China, Israel etc. and are suitable to lower
temperatures, is those 3 varieties: Hatchya, Muscat and Pomme. However,
you must realise that these are grown in full sunshine during whole
days!

Gasp. You are confirming my worst fears.

As far as the East Midlands of Ireland is concerned - I couldn't
tell how suitable it is.


No, I won't let you burst my bubble!! ;-)

I didn't like them when I was little - I liked figs and prunes, but
didn't like plaqueminiers (kaki's French name), because I was scared to
find an earwig in them )

When we were kids, the kakis were mostly left on the trees, because
people didn't know how to eat them. They are very astringent until
November or so, when they start nearly going "off". When they are
totally squishy soft, they are positively divine.
A bit like the nefles - medlars in English - which are only edible
after they have been hit by frosts - only much more worth the bother
:-)

Has anyone else on here ever tried to grow kakis in the British Isles?
They're also known as persimmon. And some varieties as sharon fruit.

Cat(h)

On 16 Jan 2006 06:19:53 -0800, "Cat(h)" wrote:

Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

Loads of information on plants for a future's page
http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/...Diospyros+kaki

quote
The persimmon is widely cultivated for its edible fruit in warm
temperate areas of the world, especially in Japan and China, there are
many named varieties[183]. Some cultivars, such as 'Fuyu', lack the
usual astringency and can be eaten whilst still firm, though they
develop a richer flavour if allowed to become soft[183, 200]. These
non-astringent forms require a warmer climate and do not ripen in
cooler areas[183]. The astringent cultivars are somewhat hardier and
ripen well in cooler climates than the non-astringent forms[183]. The
fruit colours better and is sweeter in warmer areas but in hot
conditions has a poor texture and deep black spots develop[183]. If
allowed to become very ripe (almost to the point of going rotten),
they develop a better flavour than non-astringent forms
unquote/

Loads more information on that same page, so it's worth clicking on
the link above.

--
karen at lesbiangardens dot net

Kran wrote:

On 16 Jan 2006 06:19:53 -0800, "Cat(h)" wrote:

Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

Loads of information on plants for a future's page
http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/...Diospyros+kaki

quote
The persimmon is widely cultivated for its edible fruit in warm
temperate areas of the world, especially in Japan and China, there are
many named varieties[183]. Some cultivars, such as 'Fuyu', lack the
usual astringency and can be eaten whilst still firm, though they
develop a richer flavour if allowed to become soft[183, 200]. These
non-astringent forms require a warmer climate and do not ripen in
cooler areas[183]. The astringent cultivars are somewhat hardier and
ripen well in cooler climates than the non-astringent forms[183]. The
fruit colours better and is sweeter in warmer areas but in hot
conditions has a poor texture and deep black spots develop[183]. If
allowed to become very ripe (almost to the point of going rotten),
they develop a better flavour than non-astringent forms
unquote/

Loads more information on that same page, so it's worth clicking on
the link above.

--

Thanks very much for that, Kran.
I have googled the issue to death already, and there is no shortage of
info on all the different types of persimmons/kaki.
What I am looking for here is someone who has direct or indirect
experience of growing the tree somewhere in teh British Isles, to see
whether there is some hope that I might do the same :-)


Cat(h)

karen at lesbiangardens dot net

Cat(h) wrote:
What I am looking for here is someone who has direct or indirect
experience of growing the tree somewhere in teh British Isles, to see
whether there is some hope that I might do the same :-)

Try gardenbanters. Once I saw a thread about it and a few people were
growing it.

La Puce wrote:

Cat(h) wrote:
What I am looking for here is someone who has direct or indirect
experience of growing the tree somewhere in teh British Isles, to see
whether there is some hope that I might do the same :-)

Try gardenbanters. Once I saw a thread about it and a few people were
growing it.

Ta La Puce!
Where do I find gardenbanters? Is that a website, a usenet group?

Cat(h) (licking her chops in anticipation)

Cat(h) wrote:
Ta La Puce!
Where do I find gardenbanters? Is that a website, a usenet group?
Cat(h) (licking her chops in anticipation)

) Hope you find what you're looking for.

https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/

La Puce wrote:

Cat(h) wrote:
Ta La Puce!
Where do I find gardenbanters? Is that a website, a usenet group?
Cat(h) (licking her chops in anticipation)

) Hope you find what you're looking for.

http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/index.php

Thanks for that, La Puce :-)
If all goes well, I could be starting a roaring trade in Irish Kaki...

Cat(h)

Cat(h) wrote:

Thanks for that, La Puce :-)
If all goes well, I could be starting a roaring trade in Irish Kaki...

Let me know ... minus the earwigs )

On 16 Jan 2006 06:19:53 -0800, "Cat(h)" wrote:

During my last passage in my ancestral home (SW France) for Xmas, my
entire childhood flashed before my eyes as I was given - for the first
time in years - ripe kaki fruit to eat.
Many of the local gardens and orchards have one or more of those, and
as few people used to eat them, we kids used to gorge around Nov/Dec
each year on the soft, incredibly exotically sweet orange juicy flesh.
In a fierce fit of virulent nostalgia, I promised myself to try and
plant one one in my garden (East Midlands of Ireland).
Has anyone any experience of growing diospyros kaki in the British
Isles? I believe it originates in China, and it is quite robust in the
face of very low temperatures. But I am wondering about things such as
sunshine hours in the summer, tolerance of wet conditions, and such.
Any wisdom on this?

TIA

Cat(h)

IIRC growing persimmons in the UK was discussed on urg a few months
ago. Try searching google groups over the last twelve months.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On 18 Jan 2006 02:56:31 -0800, "Cat(h)" wrote:



Just did, and unearthed this:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/...aki&CAN=LATIND

Fantastic! All the info I wanted in one web page! And apparently,
there are fruiting persimmon trees in Kew, fruiting outdoors.
I do realise that the warmth of Irish summers leaves a bit to be
desired, and I may find it more difficult to get fruits, but I intend
to give it a go anyway.

That's the exact same link I gave you earlier! The one you said was no
use because it didn't contain information about growing conditions in
the UK!
--
karen at lesbiangardens dot net

Kran wrote:

On 18 Jan 2006 02:56:31 -0800, "Cat(h)" wrote:



Just did, and unearthed this:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/...aki&CAN=LATIND

Fantastic! All the info I wanted in one web page! And apparently,
there are fruiting persimmon trees in Kew, fruiting outdoors.
I do realise that the warmth of Irish summers leaves a bit to be
desired, and I may find it more difficult to get fruits, but I intend
to give it a go anyway.

That's the exact same link I gave you earlier! The one you said was no
use because it didn't contain information about growing conditions in
the UK!

Ooops... I obviously had not taken the time to read it thoroughly then,
and shame on me.
I humbly apologise for that, Karen. It'll teach me to pay more
attention :-(
I'd offer a sample of my first harvest as a peace offering, but that's
a little too hypothetical at this stage to cut any ice ;-)

Cat(h)