"jane" wrote in message
...
snip

I have variously read that in the green saps bulb energy and so it's
best to move them in the summer while dormant, but quickly so they
can't dry out, as it's this which kills them.

One website is particularly vociferous on this:
http://rareplants.co.uk/prodtype.asp...eHisto ry=cat

The gardening press is starting to catch on - Amateur Gardening
actually quoted this chap this year. Be interesting to see what the
view is in a few years.
jane

I, too,agree with Paul Christian at Rare Plants.
I think the point is that the bulbs should ideally be planted when in a moit
plump state. You can achieve this by planting "in the green" which should
not mean bare bulbs with a couple of leaves/flowers.
Incidentally I have found that the dried bulbs do perform OK but it takes a
year or two longer.

On 16/3/06 10:08, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"jane" wrote in message
...
snip

I have variously read that in the green saps bulb energy and so it's
best to move them in the summer while dormant, but quickly so they
can't dry out, as it's this which kills them.

One website is particularly vociferous on this:
http://rareplants.co.uk/prodtype.asp...PageHisto ry=
cat

The gardening press is starting to catch on - Amateur Gardening
actually quoted this chap this year. Be interesting to see what the
view is in a few years.
jane

I, too,agree with Paul Christian at Rare Plants.
I think the point is that the bulbs should ideally be planted when in a moit
plump state. You can achieve this by planting "in the green" which should
not mean bare bulbs with a couple of leaves/flowers.
Incidentally I have found that the dried bulbs do perform OK but it takes a
year or two longer.

I think there is another side to this, though. What he describes as 'old
fashioned' is in fact, plain common sense. Older gardeners knew that if the
bulbs were dug up and allowed to dry, they wouldn't do so well, so they
moved them when they were still fruitful and while the timing of their work
in the garden gave them the opportunity to do so. The ones you can buy in
those ghastly little packets rarely do well at all. I know, I've tried
before I learned about 'in the green'. The other thing is that to give a
good effect, snowdrops need to be planted in bulk and planting them in the
green is at the very least, helpful to the gardener who can see instantly
the good or bad results of his planning. Paul Christian obviously has a
particular method of keeping his that prevents the drying out and it is
obviously MUCH easier for him to pack and post small bulblets than plants
with foliage still on them, so it is in his interest to promote his methods.
This is no swipe at him, BTW. I bought some Convallaria majalis 'Rosea'
from him many years ago and very nice they were, too. Until they stopped
coming up but that has always been my fate with Convallaria. This year we
have planted some of the same in five different locations to see if we get
any luck!
Next month we shall have guests staying, so I shall possibly be going to The
Garden House. The curator there is a snowdrop expert and enthusiast and has
written a book about them in the last two years, I believe. If I'm lucky
enough to see him, I'll get his input on this planting thing. I'm quite
sure that letting them dry out, as Jane has said, is the killer, though.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

Sacha writes
On 16/3/06 8:36, in article , "June
Hughes" wrote:

In message , Brian
writes
~~~~~~~~~~
All experiments have supported Sacha's comments. It is normal to just
wait for the flowers to have lost colour and they transplant easily and with
no hesitation. Removed as bulbs they tend to take a further year to settle
down and are much more difficult to deal with or find!
Ah. Thank-you. That seems to be a more practical suggestion as the
bulbs are very small. We have had so many for over twenty years, I have
not had to worry about them but what you say makes more sense than
quoting 'experts'.

Experts are experts because they have years of experience of doing correctly
what you are suggesting someone does wrong.

Much as I agree with the first part of your comment, the second half of
your comment is not quite fair. June has years of experience moving
snowdrops when dormant, with no problems, and on that basis it was
perfectly reasonable for her to advise as she did. One of the strengths
of urg is that it brings in personal experience which sometimes
challenges accepted wisdom, sometimes throws light on the reasons for
the expert approach.
--
Kay

On 16/3/06 13:48, in article , "K"
wrote:

Sacha writes
On 16/3/06 8:36, in article , "June
Hughes" wrote:

In message , Brian
writes
~~~~~~~~~~
All experiments have supported Sacha's comments. It is normal to just
wait for the flowers to have lost colour and they transplant easily and
with
no hesitation. Removed as bulbs they tend to take a further year to settle
down and are much more difficult to deal with or find!
Ah. Thank-you. That seems to be a more practical suggestion as the
bulbs are very small. We have had so many for over twenty years, I have
not had to worry about them but what you say makes more sense than
quoting 'experts'.

Experts are experts because they have years of experience of doing correctly
what you are suggesting someone does wrong.

Much as I agree with the first part of your comment, the second half of
your comment is not quite fair. June has years of experience moving
snowdrops when dormant, with no problems, and on that basis it was
perfectly reasonable for her to advise as she did. One of the strengths
of urg is that it brings in personal experience which sometimes
challenges accepted wisdom, sometimes throws light on the reasons for
the expert approach.

That may be true for June but it is not true for everyone and that is why
planting ' in the green' is recommended. I resent the 'expert' dig because
I recognise the motive from which it springs.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

Janet Baraclough writes
The message
from K contains these words

June has years of experience moving
snowdrops when dormant, with no problems,

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick Kay. What June posted was

." Bas has dug them up at any time
between January and May without harming them."

Snowdrops would not be dormant during that period and she hasn't
claimed that they are. June says her snowdrops flower later than the
neighbours', suggesting a later variety, which could well be "in the
green " as late as May. I've certainly lifted and moved different
varieties of snowdrop in the green from January to May, albeit further
north.

OK, fair enough. I must admit I came away with the impression they were
being moved while dormant and probably didn't read carefully enough.
Maybe June can confirm what state the snowdrops were when moved?
--
Kay

In message , K
writes
Janet Baraclough writes
The message
from K contains these words

June has years of experience moving
snowdrops when dormant, with no problems,

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick Kay. What June posted was

." Bas has dug them up at any time
between January and May without harming them."

Snowdrops would not be dormant during that period and she hasn't
claimed that they are. June says her snowdrops flower later than the
neighbours', suggesting a later variety, which could well be "in the
green " as late as May. I've certainly lifted and moved different
varieties of snowdrop in the green from January to May, albeit further
north.

OK, fair enough. I must admit I came away with the impression they were
being moved while dormant and probably didn't read carefully enough.
Maybe June can confirm what state the snowdrops were when moved?

Bas moves them at different times of the year, as the mood and the need
for weeding takes him. They are in a confined space of about 8 foot
square. He does not therefore move them in, say, October to February,
when we have no weeds. He has no interest in gardening, or so he says,
apart from keeping the weeds down and making the garden look tidy.
Whilst he knows I love the snowdrops, he is not at all careful with
them. I must add that Bas is an academic and extremely intelligent, it
is just that he claims not to enjoy gardening, although every year for
the 21 years we have been together, he has done all the back-breaking
work involved in keeping a garden. I have yet to see him plant and
cultivate something, although he admires the stuff I grow. Therefore, I
confirm that they are moved in all states and at all times of the year
except when there are no weeds, when they are coming up and when they
are in flower. It would follow that he does not move them until all the
green has gone. However, as they are not removed from the garden
altogether, (some are left on top of the soil) I suppose they do not dry
out. If you are selling bulbs, I accept that this is not the case,
because enough people here have said so. However, I thought the original
poster said that they were to be dug up to be given away but am happy to
stand corrected.

I cannot change the facts and did not intend to make nasty remarks, as
another poster has hinted. I have just told it as it is. Perhaps we
are an exception to the rule. Finally, as an expert in my own field
(not gardening), I do not trust experts an inch. All the best experts
have their own agenda.
--
June Hughes

"The Invalid" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:54:55 +0000, June Hughes
wrote:

In message , androo
writes
A friend wants some of my snowdrops, but I don't want to damage them by
digging them up at the wrong time. How and when should I do it?

They are quite tough. Wait until they have finished flowering and died
off, then dig them up. Bas digs ours up every year and they have not
come to any harm in 21 years. (He claims to hate gardening but does all
the back-breaking hard work in our garden before I do the enjoyable
stuff, which he isn't interested in.

Yet on the gardening prog on telly they state its best to move
snowdrops when they ARE flowering

I dug some up last week and pot them in a pot as I want to take them with me
when I move and did not want to forget them......they have wilted a bit as it's
been so b....y cold here! But I expect they will be OK next year.

Jenny

June Hughes wrote:
In message , K
writes
Janet Baraclough writes
The message
from K contains these words

June has years of experience moving
snowdrops when dormant, with no problems,

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick Kay. What June posted was

." Bas has dug them up at any time
between January and May without harming them."

Snowdrops would not be dormant during that period and she hasn't
claimed that they are. June says her snowdrops flower later than the
neighbours', suggesting a later variety, which could well be "in the
green " as late as May. I've certainly lifted and moved different
varieties of snowdrop in the green from January to May, albeit further
north.

OK, fair enough. I must admit I came away with the impression they were
being moved while dormant and probably didn't read carefully enough.
Maybe June can confirm what state the snowdrops were when moved?

Bas moves them at different times of the year, as the mood and the need
for weeding takes him. They are in a confined space of about 8 foot
square.

But that makes a lot of difference to your original comments. That's a
small area, for a start and makes it easier to find the bulbs when
dormant or even to keep them damp in dry spells. Snowdrop bulbs are
very small so if they're in only 8 square feet, no wonder you can move
yours around when you want to! Ours, for example, were spread over 3
acres by the original planter and are now in their thousands. If we
tried moving those around when they're dormant we'd be digging up bits
of garden, searching for them AND grovelling about in beds with others
things then in flower. OTOH, some people may have a dozen bulbs but
want to move them to another part of the garden to do better, perhaps.
Finding those would be a real needle in the haystack job. What I don't
understand is, if yours are confined to 8 square feet, why do you need
to move them at all? Don't they just stay put, go on increasing and
flower in roughly the same area each year?
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"The Invalid" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:54:55 +0000, June Hughes
wrote:

In message , androo
writes
A friend wants some of my snowdrops, but I don't want to damage them by
digging them up at the wrong time. How and when should I do it?

They are quite tough. Wait until they have finished flowering and died
off, then dig them up. Bas digs ours up every year and they have not
come to any harm in 21 years. (He claims to hate gardening but does all
the back-breaking hard work in our garden before I do the enjoyable
stuff, which he isn't interested in.

Yet on the gardening prog on telly they state its best to move
snowdrops when they ARE flowering


Jenny


Well I do agree with that comment. You can dig up a big clump of snowdrops
and pot them up or move them at any time. Same applies to most things so
long as you get a big rootball. I have a continual procession of spring
bulbs dug up and potted and vice versa.
As already stated it's the drying out of the bulbs that causes problems.

In message .com,
writes
June Hughes wrote:

Bas moves them at different times of the year, as the mood and the need
for weeding takes him. They are in a confined space of about 8 foot
square.

But that makes a lot of difference to your original comments. That's a
small area, for a start and makes it easier to find the bulbs when
dormant or even to keep them damp in dry spells.
I don't see why it should make any difference. The question was, IIRC,
could you move snowdrops.
Snowdrop bulbs are
very small so if they're in only 8 square feet, no wonder you can move
yours around when you want to!
The questioner didn't mention size of garden.
Ours, for example, were spread over 3
acres by the original planter and are now in their thousands. If we
tried moving those around when they're dormant we'd be digging up bits
of garden, searching for them AND grovelling about in beds with others
things then in flower. OTOH, some people may have a dozen bulbs but
want to move them to another part of the garden to do better, perhaps.
Finding those would be a real needle in the haystack job. What I don't
understand is, if yours are confined to 8 square feet, why do you need
to move them at all?
If you read my answer again, you will see that I stated clearly that
Barry is not a gardener, or so he claims. As he does all the hardest
work in our garden without being asked to, it would be churlish of me to
criticize his work. We lost our very old clumps of michaelmas daisies
last year, after managing to keep them for the previous twenty years but
apart from commenting that they had gone (I am sure they were discarded
in error) I have not mentioned it again. Never look a gift horse in the
mouth!
Don't they just stay put, go on increasing and
flower in roughly the same area each year?
In a previous life, I had three acres of garden, in the orchard of which
were snowdrops. We never touched them and I assume they are still there
to this day, so if our snowdrops here were left, I would say they would
probably do the same. I used to think Bas thinned them out but he
doesn't, he just tosses them about in order to get the surrounding weeds
out.


--
June Hughes

June Hughes wrote:
In message .com,
writes
June Hughes wrote:

Bas moves them at different times of the year, as the mood and the need
for weeding takes him. They are in a confined space of about 8 foot
square.

But that makes a lot of difference to your original comments. That's a
small area, for a start and makes it easier to find the bulbs when
dormant or even to keep them damp in dry spells.
I don't see why it should make any difference. The question was, IIRC,
could you move snowdrops.

From what I recall it was how and when. As in many threads, that then
extrapolated into discussions about methods, desirability, personal
experience etc., all of which are, I hope, of use to people reading
urg. So, IMO, the *circumstances* in which any one of us does anything
does indeed make a difference. It informs and colours our approach.

Snowdrop bulbs are
very small so if they're in only 8 square feet, no wonder you can move
yours around when you want to!


The questioner didn't mention size of garden.

No, she didn't. That's why giving alternative experiences is so
helpful, IMO.

Ours, for example, were spread over 3
acres by the original planter and are now in their thousands. If we
tried moving those around when they're dormant we'd be digging up bits
of garden, searching for them AND grovelling about in beds with others
things then in flower. OTOH, some people may have a dozen bulbs but
want to move them to another part of the garden to do better, perhaps.
Finding those would be a real needle in the haystack job. What I don't
understand is, if yours are confined to 8 square feet, why do you need
to move them at all?


If you read my answer again, you will see that I stated clearly that
Barry is not a gardener, or so he claims. As he does all the hardest
work in our garden without being asked to, it would be churlish of me to
criticize his work. We lost our very old clumps of michaelmas daisies
last year, after managing to keep them for the previous twenty years but
apart from commenting that they had gone (I am sure they were discarded
in error) I have not mentioned it again. Never look a gift horse in the
mouth!

I wasn't suggesting you should do so. I think he sounds like a gem if
he's prepared to help you by doing something he's not that keen on.
I'm just talking about snowdrops.

Don't they just stay put, go on increasing and
flower in roughly the same area each year?
In a previous life, I had three acres of garden, in the orchard of which
were snowdrops. We never touched them and I assume they are still there
to this day, so if our snowdrops here were left, I would say they would
probably do the same. I used to think Bas thinned them out but he
doesn't, he just tosses them about in order to get the surrounding weeds
out.

But if he just tosses them about and you say they're confined to 8
square feet I'm trying to figure out what these snowdrops do, or where
they go. Are you going to be suddenly triffid-ed by snowdrops in a
couple of years? The OP might need to know what moved or tossed about
snowdrops will do in her garden, if she wants to contain them, of
course. I would return to the origins of this thread and say that if
you want to move snowdrops, re-site them, or even give them away, it's
better done if they're in the green, especially if you want to contain
them to e.g. 8 sq. ft. Personally, I'm always enchanted to have 'happy
accidents' in the garden but I do realise not everyone feels like that.
For example, we have a myrtle which has seeded itself in *precisely*
the right place on the front drive, just where we park our cars. It
couldn't have done anything more clever or more suitable and I love it
when plants do that and am always reluctant to tear them up. But I
think there is undoubtedly a question of scale involved. I've had
gardens ranging from 0.05 of an acre to 5, and been involved with
others of postage stamp variety, to balconies on steroids to more than
10 acres with surrounding fields and stream. I suppose it's all down
to how people want to manage their personal patch but I will return to
the original topic and say that, on the whole and for most people,
moving snowdrops 'in the green' is both easier, safer and more
aesthetically helpful.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

"Rupert" wrote in message
...

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"The Invalid" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:54:55 +0000, June Hughes
wrote:

In message , androo
writes
A friend wants some of my snowdrops, but I don't want to damage them
by
digging them up at the wrong time. How and when should I do it?

They are quite tough. Wait until they have finished flowering and died
off, then dig them up. Bas digs ours up every year and they have not
come to any harm in 21 years. (He claims to hate gardening but does
all
the back-breaking hard work in our garden before I do the enjoyable
stuff, which he isn't interested in.

Yet on the gardening prog on telly they state its best to move
snowdrops when they ARE flowering


Jenny


Well I do agree with that comment. You can dig up a big clump of snowdrops
and pot them up or move them at any time. Same applies to most things so
long as you get a big rootball. I have a continual procession of spring
bulbs dug up and potted and vice versa.
As already stated it's the drying out of the bulbs that causes problems.

************

At and in the end of my lawn I have a beautiful show of Snowdrops, Crocii, -
and the Daff odils are just beginning to flower too. I planted them some
ten years ago adding more for three years and at present they have
fulfilled my dream.
They are a delight.
I don't understand this "digging up each year" business at all.
Around this area there are fields full of them. and they've been there for
Yonks.
(Holker Hall is a good example), and my first sight of them at that place
was when I was a small boy well before W.W.2.).
The only "law" I know is that if you want to have some you get them when in
full bloom in early Spring or just after they have started to sag , then
plant them in the desired site.
That's what I did and I have been richly rewarded. When I go "out the
back" in the morning , ( taking into account the cold and the snow we've
had), it is up-lifting to be greeted by the splendid splash of colours. Of
course, they have the benefit of good feeding of the lawn in Summer, I
guess..
So now is the time to 'get cracking'.
Doug.

**********