My veg did quite well last year and is off to a reasonable start this
year. The one obvious non-performer is the spring onions (white
lisbon). Very few germinate and the ones that did last year never
developed to be more than a mm or two around (both greens and bulbs).
Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

thanks,
Rob

"Rob Barrett" wrote:
My veg did quite well last year and is off to a reasonable start this
year. The one obvious non-performer is the spring onions (white lisbon).
Very few germinate and the ones that did last year never developed to be
more than a mm or two around (both greens and bulbs). Any idea what I'm
doing wrong?

thanks,
Rob
---
Join the club Bob, you as well? See my earlier posting non germinating
seeds.

MCT

my spring onions are always dreadful
I have some germinated in the greenhouse this year, but they're pathetic
little things so far


"Rob Barrett" wrote in message
...
My veg did quite well last year and is off to a reasonable start this
year. The one obvious non-performer is the spring onions (white lisbon).
Very few germinate and the ones that did last year never developed to be
more than a mm or two around (both greens and bulbs). Any idea what I'm
doing wrong?

thanks,
Rob

Ditto, White Lisbon, only a proportion come up, maybe 10%. I have two
theories. One is that slugs mow them down just as they pop their heads above
the soil, but clearly this hasn't happened to all of them.

The other theory is that I have clay soil, and despite mixing in compost and
doing a bit of sieving it's still not great stuff for little seedlings to
develop in, what with it being heavy and cold. I am working on raising the
organic content, and put clear plastic over it for two weeks at the
beginning of April to heat it up a little.

I have sown some White Lisbon in compost in the greenhouse as an experiment
and am watching to see what happens. In the years that I have succeeded
growing a few White Lisbon, they haven't usually turned into anything you'd
be proud of, something I again put down to clay soil, and perhaps infrequent
enough watering.

Andy.

"Oxymel of Squill" wrote in message
reenews.net...
my spring onions are always dreadful
I have some germinated in the greenhouse this year, but they're pathetic
little things so far


"Rob Barrett" wrote in message
...
My veg did quite well last year and is off to a reasonable start this
year. The one obvious non-performer is the spring onions (white lisbon).
Very few germinate and the ones that did last year never developed to be
more than a mm or two around (both greens and bulbs). Any idea what I'm
doing wrong?

thanks,
Rob

"Andy" wrote in message
...


I am working on raising the organic content, and put clear
plastic over it for two weeks at the beginning of April to
heat it up a little.

Andy.


Indeed. Up until a while ago, the recommendation was to use an opaque
black plastic mulch as this was supposed to work better. And it seems
most commercial growers and amateurs followed this advice. This was
presumably based on "common sense". The idea being, that all the heat
under a clear mulch would be lost again overnight.

And so nobody anywhere in the world it seems, ever thought of
doing a simple experiment (cost £ 10 max ? ) to find out which
worked better. As it now seems that a clear mulch in fact works
much the better of the two.

A black mulch, itself absorbs the heat which is then transferred to
the soil underneath - but only where the mulch and the soil are
in close contact. A clear mulch allows most of the UV and other
waves straight through, which then warm the soil directly. A film of
condensation then builds up inside the clear plastic mulch which
then acts as a barrier to heat loss overnight. There isn't however
sufficient air trapped under a clear mulch to form an insulating
barrier on its own, a miniature greenhouse effect duck .

The only real disadvantage of clear mulch is supposed to be the
possibility of weed growth underneath. As this combination of warmth
and moisture at some stage of each 24 hour cycle on the top surface
of the soil will create ideal conditions for weed germination.

However, this has the actual advantage that any troublesome weeds
which are present, should show themselves before planting. And
so can be removed at that stage before there are any crops
to disturb. This is a point which seems to have been lost
on the developers of intermediate "wonder" mulches which are
claimed to combine the light transmission characteristics of clear
mulches and the weed suppression (i.e germination delay)
characteristics of black mulches.


michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Andy" wrote in message
...


I am working on raising the organic content, and put clear
plastic over it for two weeks at the beginning of April to
heat it up a little.

Andy.


Indeed. Up until a while ago, the recommendation was to use an opaque
black plastic mulch as this was supposed to work better. And it seems
most commercial growers and amateurs followed this advice. This was
presumably based on "common sense". The idea being, that all the heat
under a clear mulch would be lost again overnight.

And so nobody anywhere in the world it seems, ever thought of
doing a simple experiment (cost £ 10 max ? ) to find out which
worked better. As it now seems that a clear mulch in fact works
much the better of the two.

A black mulch, itself absorbs the heat which is then transferred to
the soil underneath - but only where the mulch and the soil are
in close contact. A clear mulch allows most of the UV and other
waves straight through, which then warm the soil directly. A film of
condensation then builds up inside the clear plastic mulch which
then acts as a barrier to heat loss overnight. There isn't however
sufficient air trapped under a clear mulch to form an insulating
barrier on its own, a miniature greenhouse effect duck .

The only real disadvantage of clear mulch is supposed to be the
possibility of weed growth underneath. As this combination of warmth
and moisture at some stage of each 24 hour cycle on the top surface
of the soil will create ideal conditions for weed germination.

seems to be true. I am aging some poop in some new raised gardens and have
covered them over autumn/winter so keep some of the weather off them and the
weeds down. Most of it is covered with carpet and there is little weed
growth. One patch I put clear plastic over has weeds sprouting up.

rob

Oxymel of Squill ) wrote (uk.rec.gardening):

my spring onions are always dreadful
I have some germinated in the greenhouse this year, but they're
pathetic little things so far

Same here, I'm afraid. It was almost the same last year, and so in
desperation, I started using them as if they were chives.

--
David D Stretch: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Delete DELETE in the above email addresses to email me

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Andy" wrote in message
...


I am working on raising the organic content, and put clear
plastic over it for two weeks at the beginning of April to
heat it up a little.

Andy.


Indeed. Up until a while ago, the recommendation was to use an opaque
black plastic mulch as this was supposed to work better. And it seems
most commercial growers and amateurs followed this advice. This was
presumably based on "common sense". The idea being, that all the heat
under a clear mulch would be lost again overnight.

And so nobody anywhere in the world it seems, ever thought of
doing a simple experiment (cost £ 10 max ? ) to find out which
worked better. As it now seems that a clear mulch in fact works
much the better of the two.

A black mulch, itself absorbs the heat which is then transferred to
the soil underneath - but only where the mulch and the soil are
in close contact. A clear mulch allows most of the UV and other
waves straight through, which then warm the soil directly. A film of
condensation then builds up inside the clear plastic mulch which
then acts as a barrier to heat loss overnight. There isn't however
sufficient air trapped under a clear mulch to form an insulating
barrier on its own, a miniature greenhouse effect duck .

The only real disadvantage of clear mulch is supposed to be the
possibility of weed growth underneath. As this combination of warmth
and moisture at some stage of each 24 hour cycle on the top surface
of the soil will create ideal conditions for weed germination.

seems to be true. I am aging some poop in some new raised gardens and have
covered them over autumn/winter so keep some of the weather off them and
the
weeds down. Most of it is covered with carpet and there is little weed
growth. One patch I put clear plastic over has weeds sprouting up.

rob


Indeed. I managed to leave out the most salient factor of all of course -
the fact that a clear plastic mulch transmits light which is necessary
for the growth of weeds, if not their actual germination. Which has now got
me thinking maybe weed seeds do actually germinate under an opaque
mulch and then simply die off for want of light.

michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Andy" wrote in message
...


I am working on raising the organic content, and put clear
plastic over it for two weeks at the beginning of April to
heat it up a little.

Andy.


Indeed. Up until a while ago, the recommendation was to use an opaque
black plastic mulch as this was supposed to work better. And it seems
most commercial growers and amateurs followed this advice. This was
presumably based on "common sense". The idea being, that all the heat
under a clear mulch would be lost again overnight.

And so nobody anywhere in the world it seems, ever thought of
doing a simple experiment (cost £ 10 max ? ) to find out which
worked better. As it now seems that a clear mulch in fact works
much the better of the two.

A black mulch, itself absorbs the heat which is then transferred to
the soil underneath - but only where the mulch and the soil are
in close contact. A clear mulch allows most of the UV and other
waves straight through, which then warm the soil directly. A film of
condensation then builds up inside the clear plastic mulch which
then acts as a barrier to heat loss overnight. There isn't however
sufficient air trapped under a clear mulch to form an insulating
barrier on its own, a miniature greenhouse effect duck .

The only real disadvantage of clear mulch is supposed to be the
possibility of weed growth underneath. As this combination of warmth
and moisture at some stage of each 24 hour cycle on the top surface
of the soil will create ideal conditions for weed germination.

seems to be true. I am aging some poop in some new raised gardens and
have
covered them over autumn/winter so keep some of the weather off them and
the
weeds down. Most of it is covered with carpet and there is little weed
growth. One patch I put clear plastic over has weeds sprouting up.

rob

Indeed. I managed to leave out the most salient factor of all of course -
the fact that a clear plastic mulch transmits light which is necessary
for the growth of weeds, if not their actual germination. Which has now
got
me thinking maybe weed seeds do actually germinate under an opaque
mulch and then simply die off for want of light.

michael adams

yup. the weeds under the carpet are small and sickly looking and easily
pulled up on a fine day. The ones under the plastic are growing much
stronger but will also meet their doom. Its a pain having the *******s come
through however on the other hand it is good to get them out and dealt with
now rather than when things are planted.

rob

David D Stretch wrote:
Oxymel of Squill ) wrote (uk.rec.gardening):

my spring onions are always dreadful
I have some germinated in the greenhouse this year, but they're
pathetic little things so far

Same here, I'm afraid. It was almost the same last year, and so in
desperation, I started using them as if they were chives.


Ok, I've got a handful of spring onion failure stories now. Any
successes? Being able to grab a couple from the garden at a moment's
notice would be really nice!

Is it just White Lisbon that fail? What do you old pros say?

"Andy" wrote in message
...
Ditto, White Lisbon, only a proportion come up, maybe 10%. I have two
theories. One is that slugs mow them down just as they pop their heads
above the soil, but clearly this hasn't happened to all of them.

My White Lisbon germination rate was 100%. However, they are not doing very
much at all. I was hoping they would be a useful catch crop, but at their
present rate of growth, they may be ready for Christmas

Let's hope they enter their teenage years very soon.

Lyndon