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Lemon & Lime seeds
Why are limes seedless and lemons not?
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Lemon & Lime seeds
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:21:49 +0100, Angela Fuller wrote:
|!Why are limes seedless and lemons not? They are different cultivars both of the citrus family. When I last made lime marmalade the Limes had a few seeds -- Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks. 165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address. |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 22:05:54 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote: On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:21:49 +0100, Angela Fuller wrote: |!Why are limes seedless and lemons not? They are different cultivars both of the citrus family. So they're hybrids? Have they (the limes) been specifically cultivated to have no seeds? If so, why not do the same with lemons? When I last made lime marmalade the Limes had a few seeds Strange. I've used about 20 limes over the past month or so and not one had a seed in it. |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
Donna Frazier wrote:
So they're hybrids? Have they (the limes) been specifically cultivated to have no seeds? If so, why not do the same with lemons? There are two main types of limes which seem to predominate the market. The best for quantity of jiuce and size of fruit are those commonly known as 'Persian' or 'Tahiti' limes. They are old hybrids selected and grown widely over the past 100 - 150 years and have relatively thin rinds and moderately acid flavour. Their 'seedless' qualities are either due to them being entirely sterile or self-sterile. Since the only way to get the same fruit consistently is to propagate vegetatively using grafting or cuttings. All trees in a plantation would be clones and being closely related.they'd be self-incompatible resulting in seedless or near seedless fruits. The second type which is widely grown on account of its stronger, more acid flavour is the 'Key lime', which does have seeds. The rind is thicker and the fruits are smaller but very freely produced. Even seeded limes have relatively few seeds, so I doubt if 'seedlessness' is a determining quality in the selection of a variety for growing commercially. There is now a seedless lemon derived from 'Eureka', which is one of the most widely grown varieties. I seem to remember a bit of a fuss when it first became available a few years ago. As with limes the presence of seeds does not impair the quality of the fruit or detract from it, so I can't see the seedless version ousting the popular conventional varieties in the near future. I think it was Sainsbury that first stocked it, claiming that the days of worrying about lemon pips were now over. But really, is it that much trouble to remove a few seeds from a lemon? There's little real advantage for the domestic market, but I suppose there is a point when processing tons of fruit for juice production. When I last made lime marmalade the Limes had a few seeds Strange. I've used about 20 limes over the past month or so and not one had a seed in it. Depending upon source and time of year, grocers and supermarkets will stock either type. Because of their stronger flavour and thicker rinds, .Key limes make a better marmelade and in my opinion, lime marmelade is the best. |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
In article .com, "Dave Poole" writes: | Donna Frazier wrote: | | So they're hybrids? Have they (the limes) been specifically | cultivated to have no seeds? If so, why not do the same with | lemons? | | There are two main types of limes which seem to predominate the | market. The best for quantity of jiuce and size of fruit are those | commonly known as 'Persian' or 'Tahiti' limes. They are old hybrids | selected and grown widely over the past 100 - 150 years and have | relatively thin rinds and moderately acid flavour. If I have it right, they are also known as West African limes, and the Americans know them as Mexican ones :-) God alone knows where they originated! They are the usually the ones bought in the UK, and the plant is definitely a tropical one - i.e. it needs fairly constant warmth and high humidity. | The second type which is widely grown on account of its stronger, more | acid flavour is the 'Key lime', which does have seeds. The rind is | thicker and the fruits are smaller but very freely produced. Even | seeded limes have relatively few seeds, so I doubt if 'seedlessness' | is a determining quality in the selection of a variety for growing | commercially. I haven't often seen these in the UK. I believe that 'Bearss' is a seedless variety that dominate the USA, though I am not certain that it is a Key lime. It certainly isn't the species that we are used to in the UK. | When I last made lime marmalade the Limes had a few seeds | | Strange. I've used about 20 limes over the past month or so | and not one had a seed in it. | | Depending upon source and time of year, grocers and supermarkets will | stock either type. Because of their stronger flavour and thicker | rinds, .Key limes make a better marmelade and in my opinion, lime | marmelade is the best. As I said, I have very rarely bought any but the first-mentioned lime in the UK, and the only seeded ones I have bought I am pretty sure were of the same species. Also, my mother said that the ones in West Africa usually had seeds. What is their flavour like and how aromatic is their juice? Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
Nick wrote:
If I have it right, they are also known as West African limes, and the Americans know them as Mexican ones :-) God alone knows where they originated! They are the usually the ones bought in the UK, and the plant is definitely a tropical one - i.e. it needs fairly constant warmth and high humidity. I was a bit wooly-headed when I rattled off my earlier comments and on re-reading, see that I got the bit about thickness of rind back to front. The 'Tahiti'/'Persian' lime has the thicker rind. Sorry about that - was just waking up - dyslexic thinking ;-) West Indian limes Nick a.k.a. Key lime, Mexican Key lime, bartender's lime etc. etc. They may be grown in West Africa and therefore may be dubbed that by some. It is thought to have originated in the Far East and was brought to the Middle East by traders at some point in distant history. From there it was taken to the New World by the Spanish and Portuguese. The problem is that there are several Citrus referred to as limes and since few sellers make any great distinction, the confusion continues. I am fairly positive that you are referring to 'Key lime', which seems to be prevalent in many shops due to its prolific nature and flavour. I haven't often seen these in the UK. I believe that 'Bearss' is a seedless variety that dominate the USA, Bearss. is a seedless or near seedless form of the Tahiti/Persian lime. As you mention, it is primarily sold in the US and is rarely available here. The similar fruits of the Tahiti lime do make an appearance - IIRC during early autumn for a month or so. What is their flavour like and how aromatic is their juice? Assuming you mean the 'Tahiti', the fruit is less acid and if ripened in heat (ie a hot greenhouse/climate) it can become almost too sweet for a lime. It is not as aromatic as the Key lime and is considered to be a hybrid with Key lime (Citrus aurantiifolia) as one of the parents and maybe one of the lemons as the other. I understand it was first developed in the Middle East (hence 'Persian') and was moved about during the 20th. century. Which reminds me, I'm doing a fiery chilli for dinner. I'd better pick a handful of limequats from the bush outside to go with it. Now they are excellent substitutes for Key limes provided they are not too ripe and they don't need the heat either - I've been picking them throughout the winter. Unfortunately they are small, but at least you get lots of them. You ought to try one in your greenhouse Nick. It is the Eustis limonella - very easy, cold tolerant and utterly reliable even as a small plant. |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
"Dave Poole" wrote ... Their 'seedless' qualities are either due to them being entirely sterile or self-sterile. Since the only way to get the same fruit consistently is to propagate vegetatively using grafting or cuttings. All trees in a plantation would be clones and being closely related.they'd be self-incompatible resulting in seedless or near seedless fruits. Our Tahiti Lime is grown with 2 Lemon trees, an Orange tree, and Padua Lime (fun plant) close by but not one of the 28 fruit we have harvested over the last couple of months had a seed and I can't remember one ever having seed. Would lend one to believe the clone/variety/hybrid is sterile. BTW the fruit turn yellow when ripe when they also get sweeter or loose some astringency, so you can pick to suit your requirements/taste. All the limes in Sainsbury's ATM are Tahiti Limes (I read the label) which look exactly like ours, like a smaller perfectly round green lemon. Regarding warmth, oar's is outside now and will stay there unless we get a bad cold snap, it gets treated just like all our other citrus except I put it in the heated greenhouse in winter, min 50°F. Together with the Lemon the Tahiti Lime is certainly worth growing. -- Regards Bob H 17mls W. of London.UK |
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Lemon & Lime seeds
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 22:31:48 +0100, Donna Frazier wrote:
|!On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 22:05:54 +0100, Dave Fawthrop wrote: |! |!On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:21:49 +0100, Angela Fuller wrote: |! |!|!Why are limes seedless and lemons not? |! |!They are different cultivars both of the citrus family. |! |!So they're hybrids? Have they (the limes) been specifically |!cultivated to have no seeds? If so, why not do the same with |!lemons? Man has been deliberately selecting and breeding the animals and vegetables which we eat for over 6000 years, in some cases more, so non of them are in anything like a natural state, where species generally do not interbreed and generally if they interbreed generally have infertile offspring. The difference between species, cultivars and hybrids has been thoroughly confused by us. |! |!When I last made lime marmalade the Limes had a few seeds |! |!Strange. I've used about 20 limes over the past month or so |!and not one had a seed in it. I said *cultivars* not species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivar Examples of cultivars ate the dozen types of potato which you can buy easily and *many* more which the supermarkets do not stock, these vary widely in taste cooking quality etc. etc. http://www.europotato.org/menu.php? There are also many different cultivars of the orange, clematises, jaffa, seville etc. etc. which also vary widely. http://www.postharvest.com.au/Oranges_Cv.htm If you buy your limes at one place, they may well have a seedless cultivar. The plant breeders are forever working on ?improvements? Google found me this: http://www.uga.edu/fruit/citrus.html Limes. ?Key' (syn. ?Mexican', ?West Indian') and ?Tahiti' (syn. Persian) are the major cultivars. ?Key' limes are small, round, and seedy, and turn yellow under Mediterranean conditions. ?Tahiti' limes are larger, green, and shaped like lemons. Lemons. The main cultivars are 'Lisbon' (oval to round, more pronounced stylar end furrow and point) and 'Eureka' (oval, less pronounced stylar end). 'Meyer' is a cold hardy, larger fruited cultivar used as an ornamental or containerized plant, and is probably a lemon hybrid. ?Femminello' and ?Verna' are the major cultivars in Italy and Spain, respectively. -- Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks. 165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address. |
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