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Is my apple tree sick?
Hi all,
This is my first post here, so please bear with me. I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a number of years. I’ve included some pics: http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG “Apple1.jpg” is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing, touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing inwards. “Apple2.jpg” is a shot from the other direction. “Apple 4.jpg” and “Apple5.jpg” show a number of brown growths and they look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea what these are? “Apple5.jpg” and “Apple6.jpg” show the state of the bark on the tree, which seems to be pretty poor. I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at replacing it. Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated Thanks Nick P.S. I’m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I’ve picked up in the past few months) |
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Is my apple tree sick?
Nick Powell writes
Hi all, This is my first post here, so please bear with me. I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a number of years. I’ve included some pics: http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG “Apple1.jpg” is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing, touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing inwards. “Apple2.jpg” is a shot from the other direction. “Apple 4.jpg” and “Apple5.jpg” show a number of brown growths and they look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea what these are? “Apple5.jpg” and “Apple6.jpg” show the state of the bark on the tree, which seems to be pretty poor. I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at replacing it. Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated Thanks Nick P.S. I’m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I’ve picked up in the past few months) It's not going to die in the next few years, the question is whether its cropping is affected. A mature tree will give a lot heavier crop than a new one, so it's worth not rushing into replacement, particularly if you like the flavour of the apples being produced. My immediate thought is that if you have been in the garden for 4 months, then you should know what type of apples it produces, since it should be producing them! That said, many apples get into a biennial habit (too heavy a crop one year exhausts the tree for the next year, then the third year it produces too heavy a crop again), so it might be in the bad year of a biennial cycle. If it were mine, I'd give it another year to prove itself. Finally, if there are no other apples trees around flowering at the same time of year, then it may not get pollinated and therefore not produce apples. -- Kay |
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article , Sacha
writes In a previous garden I had what I was told was a 100 year old James Grieve. And then I was told that whatever you do to an old apple tree, you do it slowly, a little at a time. So year by year, take out any obviously dead branches; then take out any obviously weak branches; then take out branches which cross and rub one against the other. Aim for an open shape in term of circulation of light and air. Most/many plants respond to light and circulation of air. But vigorous hacking might be too much to take so little by little is the best way forward. Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just what my gut instinct would tell me to do. -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
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Is my apple tree sick?
On 27/11/07 21:38, in article , "Janet
Tweedy" wrote: In article , Sacha writes In a previous garden I had what I was told was a 100 year old James Grieve. And then I was told that whatever you do to an old apple tree, you do it slowly, a little at a time. So year by year, take out any obviously dead branches; then take out any obviously weak branches; then take out branches which cross and rub one against the other. Aim for an open shape in term of circulation of light and air. Most/many plants respond to light and circulation of air. But vigorous hacking might be too much to take so little by little is the best way forward. Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just what my gut instinct would tell me to do. I expect you're right. I didn't get the original post so didn't see the detail. Strange. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove weeds from address) 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article , Janet Tweedy writes: | | Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the | past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths | back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just | what my gut instinct would tell me to do. Yes. Let's analyse this mathematically :-) 1) Not doing anything almost certainly means that it remains a dead loss, eyesore and waste of space. 2) Grubbing it involves the total loss of the tree. 3) Tidying it up and pruning it (by a rank amateur) may make it worse, but may make it better. (3) is the only one that MIGHT salvage anything, so is necessarily better (in a game theoretic sense) than either of the other approaches. In plain English, what's to lose? If it doesn't improve, then the best solution is (2). And there has been plenty of good advice on how to do (3) in this thread. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Is my apple tree sick?
"Nick Powell" wrote This is my first post here, so please bear with me. I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a number of years. I’ve included some pics: http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG “Apple1.jpg” is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing, touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing inwards. “Apple2.jpg” is a shot from the other direction. “Apple 4.jpg” and “Apple5.jpg” show a number of brown growths and they look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea what these are? “Apple5.jpg” and “Apple6.jpg” show the state of the bark on the tree, which seems to be pretty poor. I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at replacing it. Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated That tree looks in a bad way, from what I can see it appears to have Apple Canker. http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile...ple_canker.asp Be very careful about sterilising any pruning equipment you use and dispose of any cuttings carefully so as not to spread the infection. Personally, in the condition it's in, I'd take it out and wouldn't plant another anywhere near that spot. If I did want another apple I'd go for a variety that is less susceptible like.... Laxton's Superb, Newton Wonder, Bramley's Seedling, Lane's Prince Albert (it says in my book!) -- Regards Bob Hobden 17mls W. of London.UK |
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Thanks for all your comments ...
With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably no bigger than a plum. I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old? I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it could be me being naive Cheers Nick |
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article , Nick.Powell.1c18d58
@gardenbanter.co.uk says... Thanks for all your comments ... With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably no bigger than a plum. I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old? I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it could be me being naive Cheers Nick If the apples are small and bitter then it may be that you have a crab apple. if they were small sweet and a lot of them then maybe your variet does not have an efficient June drop and you need to thin the apples. the fruitlets tend to occur in bunches of 2-5 if you thin that doen to just 1 then you may get a better result and more regular cropping. Dwarfing rootstock has been around for at least 40 years that I know about. Your tree could be quite old but grafted on to a root which would stop it growing tall. Gill M -- addy gill[at]pcservicesreading[dot]co[dot]uk |
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Is my apple tree sick?
Nick Powell writes
Thanks for all your comments ... With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably no bigger than a plum. I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old? I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it could be me being naive Not *so* old - somewhere around 10-15 years from the diameter of the trunk. But it's a lot of years to lose if it's any good. If you want to give it a try next year, try thinning out the fruit after June so that it's not carrying more than it can cope with (this will help stop it bearing biennially too). And if you're in the SE rather than the NW of the country, make sure it has a stable water supply over the summer. -- Kay |
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article ,
says... Hi all, This is my first post here, so please bear with me. I?ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously overgrown garden, I?ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden doesn?t look to well and I don?t think it?s been looked after for a number of years. I?ve included some pics: http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG ?Apple1.jpg? is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it?s not been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing, touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I?ve subsequently taken out as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing inwards. ?Apple2.jpg? is a shot from the other direction. ?Apple 4.jpg? and ?Apple5.jpg? show a number of brown growths and they look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea what these are? ?Apple5.jpg? and ?Apple6.jpg? show the state of the bark on the tree, which seems to be pretty poor. I?ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if it will grow any larger? Although it?s growing a bit lopsided, it would be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My concern is that it may be so bad that it?s a goner and I should look at replacing it. Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated Thanks Nick P.S. I?m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I?ve picked up in the past few months) As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I would keep the tree. -- Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and Lapageria rosea |
#12
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article , Charlie Pridham writes: | | As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that | and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of | the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of | wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you | get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big | tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum | crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I | would keep the tree. Bear with me a moment .... I am giving programming courses, and am having some difficulty with the younger generation (as much colleagues as students, and even the latter are graduates). I deal in understanding, not recipes, and that is so terribly, terribly passe - and virtually everything I say is conditional (i.e. "IF this is so, THEN this is so or do this.") Most people nowadays want spoon feeding with canned recipes :-( One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime example. Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs care about that? It's like the heartwood-destroying fungi. Until they weaken the tree enough for it to break up, they don't have ANY effect on its health! As Oliver Rackham points out, they are effectively symbiotic with some trees (like oaks), in that they extend the tree's life by centuries. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Is my apple tree sick?
"Nick Maclaren" wrote ... after Charlie Pridham writes: | | As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that | and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of | the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of | wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you | get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big | tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum | crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I | would keep the tree. Bear with me a moment .... I am giving programming courses, and am having some difficulty with the younger generation (as much colleagues as students, and even the latter are graduates). I deal in understanding, not recipes, and that is so terribly, terribly passe - and virtually everything I say is conditional (i.e. "IF this is so, THEN this is so or do this.") Most people nowadays want spoon feeding with canned recipes :-( One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime example. Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs care about that? It's like the heartwood-destroying fungi. Until they weaken the tree enough for it to break up, they don't have ANY effect on its health! As Oliver Rackham points out, they are effectively symbiotic with some trees (like oaks), in that they extend the tree's life by centuries. The reason I say take it out is that it's not fruiting well, is sick with canker and the look of that trunk near the ground gives me another cause for concern, very strange, peeling bark etc. Coupled with the comment " I’m a complete beginner in the garden " from the poster suggests he/she may not have the knowledge or patience for a long uphill struggle to get the tree back into some semblance of health. Having had apple and pear trees in a similar state when I moved into a house I know it can be a constant battle that you don't always win. That said I know one little tree down in N.Cornwall that I get to prune every few years that is riddled with canker but still produces a good crop of well sized apples. I wonder if the salt spray helps keep the disease in check. -- Regards Bob Hobden 17mls W. of London.UK |
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Is my apple tree sick?
In article , "Bob Hobden" writes: | | The reason I say take it out is that it's not fruiting well, is sick with | canker and the look of that trunk near the ground gives me another cause for | concern, very strange, peeling bark etc. The first and last reasons are good ones; the second isn't, really. Not fruiting well is the real one, and is the indicator of whether anything is seriously wrong. | Coupled with the comment " I’m a | complete beginner in the garden " from the poster suggests he/she may not | have the knowledge or patience for a long uphill struggle to get the tree | back into some semblance of health. Well as, generally, no treatment is needed for canker, surely he starts at an advantage? :-) | That said I know one little tree down in N.Cornwall that I get to prune | every few years that is riddled with canker but still produces a good crop | of well sized apples. I wonder if the salt spray helps keep the disease in | check. Nope. I have seen that on trees a long way from the sea. I stand by my comment that canker isn't critical - I take your point about the other aspects indicating that it may be beyond recovery. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Is my apple tree sick?
Nick Maclaren writes
In article , Charlie Pridham writes: | | As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that | and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of | the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of | wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you | get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big | tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum | crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I | would keep the tree. One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime example. Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs care about that? I've had bad canker on a Herrings Pippin, and it did seriously weaken the tree (it was many times worse than that in the tree we're discussing). But I cut out what I could, pruned carefully, and the tree is now back on the way up, producing about 30lbs of apples. And since Herrings Pippin doesn't have a long eating season, if it gets to more than 60lb I will start having a problem! -- Kay |
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