In article , Sacha
writes

In a previous garden I had what I was told was a 100 year old James Grieve.
And then I was told that whatever you do to an old apple tree, you do it
slowly, a little at a time. So year by year, take out any obviously dead
branches; then take out any obviously weak branches; then take out
branches which cross and rub one against the other. Aim for an open shape
in term of circulation of light and air. Most/many plants respond to light
and circulation of air. But vigorous hacking might be too much to take so
little by little is the best way forward.


Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the
past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths
back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just
what my gut instinct would tell me to do.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 27/11/07 21:38, in article , "Janet
Tweedy" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

In a previous garden I had what I was told was a 100 year old James Grieve.
And then I was told that whatever you do to an old apple tree, you do it
slowly, a little at a time. So year by year, take out any obviously dead
branches; then take out any obviously weak branches; then take out
branches which cross and rub one against the other. Aim for an open shape
in term of circulation of light and air. Most/many plants respond to light
and circulation of air. But vigorous hacking might be too much to take so
little by little is the best way forward.


Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the
past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths
back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just
what my gut instinct would tell me to do.

I expect you're right. I didn't get the original post so didn't see the
detail. Strange.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article
,
Martin Bonner writes


It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.

That's what I thought Martin. I would have gone for taking those water
shoots back within one or two buds of the main frame, then take out
crossing and weak or diseased growth. (Only that way round because
getting rid of the water )
All the 'wobbly, knobbly ' twigs I would have pruned back to again, two
shoots on growth from the original prunings.

Still I probably am not giving good advice here so I'd better listen to
the experienced fruit pruners!

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article ,
Janet Tweedy writes:
|
| Except that, Sacha, this tree looks as if it has been pruned in the
| past. I would have gone for pruning the long obviously weaker growths
| back to two buds from the main stem. However I'm no expert, it's just
| what my gut instinct would tell me to do.

Yes. Let's analyse this mathematically :-)

1) Not doing anything almost certainly means that it remains a dead
loss, eyesore and waste of space.

2) Grubbing it involves the total loss of the tree.

3) Tidying it up and pruning it (by a rank amateur) may make it
worse, but may make it better.

(3) is the only one that MIGHT salvage anything, so is necessarily
better (in a game theoretic sense) than either of the other approaches.
In plain English, what's to lose? If it doesn't improve, then the
best solution is (2).

And there has been plenty of good advice on how to do (3) in this
thread.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Hey all,

Thanks all for the very sound advice.

I've decided to keep the tree and see if I can make it improve for next Summer. I'll give it a prune come late December (as directed above) + I'll follow the other instructions.

In terms of general health of the tree, I'm assumming it's easier to see when it has leaves and or fruit.

Thanks again

Nick

On Nov 27, 4:25 pm, "doug" wrote:

You are going to have to have much courage whether you want to keep the
apple trees or you don't.
I and my son-in-low a few years ago had five trees, ((not apple trees, -
Firs..), close together on a medium sized lawn.
It took us both a long time to get rid of them.
We dropped them to two feet high ...

I suggest that that was at least part of your problem. If you had
dropped them to FIVE feet high with a bow saw, then you would have had
a nice long lever with which to "persuade" the roots to loosen up (so
you could get a saw/loppers/axe in to chop the roots). The trees
would also have been significantly narrower higher up. If they were
too big to chop with a bow saw at 5', then a) they were MUCH bigger
than the apple tree in the OP; b) to my mind they probably merited a
tree surgeon.

On Nov 27, 11:12 pm, Janet Tweedy wrote:
In article
,
Martin Bonner writes



It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.

That's what I thought Martin. I would have gone for taking those water
shoots back within one or two buds of the main frame, then take out
crossing and weak or diseased growth. (Only that way round because
getting rid of the water )
All the 'wobbly, knobbly ' twigs I would have pruned back to again, two
shoots on growth from the original prunings.

I was working on the basis that it's much easier to rectify
underpruning next year (just prune harder), than it is to fix
overpruning. I was also thinking that the OP wanted to avoid hacking
back too hard - otherwise he just ends up with a whole load of new
water shoots.

Still I probably am not giving good advice here so I'd better listen to
the experienced fruit pruners!

Of which I am /not/ one!

What I would recommend is the RHS book on pruning everything. I
managed to get three reasonable espalier apples and a fan-trained
peach with that.

Janet Tweedy writes
In article
,
Martin Bonner writes


It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.

That's what I thought Martin. I would have gone for taking those water
shoots back within one or two buds of the main frame, then take out
crossing and weak or diseased growth. (Only that way round because
getting rid of the water )
All the 'wobbly, knobbly ' twigs I would have pruned back to again, two
shoots on growth from the original prunings.

The 'wobbly, knobbly' twigs are that way because each of the knobbly bit
is where a bunch of flowers will appear. I'll cut back the ends of the
twigs where there are no knobbly bits, but never prune the knobbly bits
unless they happen to be on a branch I'm taking out for other reasons
(eg disease) - it always seems to me that the more potential fruits you
have the better. It seems to work for me, but I've no idea whether it's
the approved approach.
--
Kay

"Nick Powell" wrote in message
...

Hey all,

Thanks all for the very sound advice.

I've decided to keep the tree and see if I can make it improve for next
Summer. I'll give it a prune come late December (as directed above) +
I'll follow the other instructions.

In terms of general health of the tree, I'm assumming it's easier to
see when it has leaves and or fruit.

Thanks again

Nick

Nick Powell
--------------------

Just a friendly small comment for the consideration of yourself and the
Symposium!.
You don't have to do this, and 'each to his own' methods of course but this
is what I do.
When the apple tree has flowered and the little petals gone, little apples
grow in bunches on their stems.
There are always too many on one stem. My reasoning is, -
In my opinion too many on the stem are to the detriment of the full "Crop"
because the smallest little apples in each bunch don't really mature
properly and eventually will be chucked out.. Those little runts will waste
good sap which is merely heading for the compost bin. Ergo, they aren't
going to "make it" and are holding back the size and quality of the big
survivers that will grace M'lady's table and kitchen,
Also remember that sometimes some trees take a rest each other year.so,
knowing this, - don't panic!.
Another thought!, - know that some trees like to have a compatible breed
alongside to fertilise them. You have to know which breed needs which.
Also know that I am a bum amateur , but, with professioals looking over my
shoulder, ...
I know my place!.
Doug.!
-----------------