Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a number of years. I’ve included some pics:

http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG


“Apple1.jpg” is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing, touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing inwards. “Apple2.jpg” is a shot from the other direction.

“Apple 4.jpg” and “Apple5.jpg” show a number of brown growths and they look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea what these are?

“Apple5.jpg” and “Apple6.jpg” show the state of the bark on the tree, which seems to be pretty poor.

I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at replacing it.

Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated


Thanks
Nick

P.S. I’m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I’ve picked up in the past few months)

Nick Powell writes

Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a
number of years. I’ve included some pics:

http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG


“Apple1.jpg� is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not
been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing,
touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right
of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out
as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also
resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing
inwards. “Apple2.jpg� is a shot from the other direction.

“Apple 4.jpg� and “Apple5.jpg� show a number of brown growths and they
look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea
what these are?

“Apple5.jpg� and “Apple6.jpg� show the state of the bark on the tree,
which seems to be pretty poor.

I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if
it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would
be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My
concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at
replacing it.

Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated


Thanks
Nick

P.S. I’m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I’ve
picked up in the past few months)


It's not going to die in the next few years, the question is whether
its cropping is affected. A mature tree will give a lot heavier crop
than a new one, so it's worth not rushing into replacement, particularly
if you like the flavour of the apples being produced.

My immediate thought is that if you have been in the garden for 4
months, then you should know what type of apples it produces, since it
should be producing them!

That said, many apples get into a biennial habit (too heavy a crop one
year exhausts the tree for the next year, then the third year it
produces too heavy a crop again), so it might be in the bad year of a
biennial cycle. If it were mine, I'd give it another year to prove
itself.

Finally, if there are no other apples trees around flowering at the same
time of year, then it may not get pollinated and therefore not produce
apples.



--
Kay

On 26/11/07 21:04, in article , "Nick
Powell" wrote:


Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a
number of years.snip

In a previous garden I had what I was told was a 100 year old James Grieve.
And then I was told that whatever you do to an old apple tree, you do it
slowly, a little at a time. So year by year, take out any obviously dead
branches; then take out any obviously weak branches; then take out
branches which cross and rub one against the other. Aim for an open shape
in term of circulation of light and air. Most/many plants respond to light
and circulation of air. But vigorous hacking might be too much to take so
little by little is the best way forward.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"Nick Powell" wrote
This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I’ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I’ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn’t look to well and I don’t think it’s been looked after for a
number of years. I’ve included some pics:

http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG


“Apple1.jpg” is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it’s not
been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing,
touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right
of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I’ve subsequently taken out
as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also
resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing
inwards. “Apple2.jpg” is a shot from the other direction.

“Apple 4.jpg” and “Apple5.jpg” show a number of brown growths and they
look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea
what these are?

“Apple5.jpg” and “Apple6.jpg” show the state of the bark on the tree,
which seems to be pretty poor.

I’ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if
it will grow any larger? Although it’s growing a bit lopsided, it would
be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My
concern is that it may be so bad that it’s a goner and I should look at
replacing it.

Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated

That tree looks in a bad way, from what I can see it appears to have Apple
Canker.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile...ple_canker.asp
Be very careful about sterilising any pruning equipment you use and dispose
of any cuttings carefully so as not to spread the infection.
Personally, in the condition it's in, I'd take it out and wouldn't plant
another anywhere near that spot. If I did want another apple I'd go for a
variety that is less susceptible like.... Laxton's Superb, Newton Wonder,
Bramley's Seedling, Lane's Prince Albert (it says in my book!)
--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

Thanks for all your comments ...

With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably no bigger than a plum.

I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old?

I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it could be me being naive

Cheers
Nick

In article ,
says...

Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I?ve recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I?ve spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn?t look to well and I don?t think it?s been looked after for a
number of years. I?ve included some pics:

http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple1.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple2.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple3.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple4.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple5.JPG
http://www.conita.co.uk/Apple6.JPG


?Apple1.jpg? is an overall shot of the tree and as you can see it?s not
been pruned in sometime, there are so many branches that are crossing,
touching and growing into the centre of the tree. Also, to the right
of the tree was a massive buddleia, which I?ve subsequently taken out
as it was forcing the tree to grow crocked to get sunlight and also
resulted in a number of branches on the right hand side growing
inwards. ?Apple2.jpg? is a shot from the other direction.

?Apple 4.jpg? and ?Apple5.jpg? show a number of brown growths and they
look to be growing where the tree has been previously pruned. Any idea
what these are?

?Apple5.jpg? and ?Apple6.jpg? show the state of the bark on the tree,
which seems to be pretty poor.

I?ve no idea how old the tree is, what type of apples it produces or if
it will grow any larger? Although it?s growing a bit lopsided, it would
be quite nice to try and save the tree and give it a decent chance. My
concern is that it may be so bad that it?s a goner and I should look at
replacing it.

Any thoughts/ help would be much appreciated


Thanks
Nick

P.S. I?m a complete beginner in the garden (apart from the basics I?ve
picked up in the past few months)


As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that
and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of
the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of
wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you
get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big
tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum
crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I
would keep the tree.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

In article ,
Charlie Pridham writes:
|
| As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that
| and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of
| the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of
| wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you
| get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big
| tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum
| crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I
| would keep the tree.

Bear with me a moment ....

I am giving programming courses, and am having some difficulty with
the younger generation (as much colleagues as students, and even the
latter are graduates). I deal in understanding, not recipes, and
that is so terribly, terribly passe - and virtually everything I say
is conditional (i.e. "IF this is so, THEN this is so or do this.")
Most people nowadays want spoon feeding with canned recipes :-(

One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they
are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all
such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because
they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime
example.

Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at
the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major
branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively
nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs
care about that?

It's like the heartwood-destroying fungi. Until they weaken the
tree enough for it to break up, they don't have ANY effect on
its health! As Oliver Rackham points out, they are effectively
symbiotic with some trees (like oaks), in that they extend the
tree's life by centuries.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Nov 26, 9:04 pm, Nick Powell Nick.Powell.
wrote:
Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I've recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I've spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn't look to well and I don't think it's been looked after for a
number of years. I've included some pics:

It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.

The small wriggly twigs are fine - they are where you are most likely
to get flowers and more side shoots. It's the long straight twigs/
branches that aren't doing you any good.

I'd start by checking if there's any dead or dying wood. If so, cut
it out. Then I'd try to cut back say 2/3rds of the long straight
shoots by 2/3rds, and cut back the remaining 1/3 by 1/3. (The idea is
that you want to get a variety of lengths, rather than cutting
everything back and getting another rash of water shoots).

When you cut back, cut back to an outward or downward facing shoot
(that way you won't get such a crowded centre). Try and arrange for
horizontal branches rather than vertical (horizontal fruits better).

I wouldn't worry about the canker/woolly aphid if any. When we moved
into our last house, there where two apple trees clearly on their last
legs, so we quickly planted some more. Ten years later they were
still fruiting strongly! (and the new trees were doing OK too).

Incidentally, are you sure it isn't a crab apple? Was the fruit
astringent when ripe?

"Nick Maclaren" wrote ...
after
Charlie Pridham writes:
|
| As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that
| and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one
of
| the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of
| wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while
you
| get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big
| tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want
maximum
| crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine
I
| would keep the tree.

Bear with me a moment ....

I am giving programming courses, and am having some difficulty with
the younger generation (as much colleagues as students, and even the
latter are graduates). I deal in understanding, not recipes, and
that is so terribly, terribly passe - and virtually everything I say
is conditional (i.e. "IF this is so, THEN this is so or do this.")
Most people nowadays want spoon feeding with canned recipes :-(

One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they
are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all
such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because
they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime
example.

Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at
the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major
branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively
nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs
care about that?

It's like the heartwood-destroying fungi. Until they weaken the
tree enough for it to break up, they don't have ANY effect on
its health! As Oliver Rackham points out, they are effectively
symbiotic with some trees (like oaks), in that they extend the
tree's life by centuries.

The reason I say take it out is that it's not fruiting well, is sick with
canker and the look of that trunk near the ground gives me another cause for
concern, very strange, peeling bark etc. Coupled with the comment " I’m a
complete beginner in the garden " from the poster suggests he/she may not
have the knowledge or patience for a long uphill struggle to get the tree
back into some semblance of health.
Having had apple and pear trees in a similar state when I moved into a house
I know it can be a constant battle that you don't always win.
That said I know one little tree down in N.Cornwall that I get to prune
every few years that is riddled with canker but still produces a good crop
of well sized apples. I wonder if the salt spray helps keep the disease in
check.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

In article ,
"Bob Hobden" writes:
|
| The reason I say take it out is that it's not fruiting well, is sick with
| canker and the look of that trunk near the ground gives me another cause for
| concern, very strange, peeling bark etc.

The first and last reasons are good ones; the second isn't, really.
Not fruiting well is the real one, and is the indicator of whether
anything is seriously wrong.

| Coupled with the comment " I’m a
| complete beginner in the garden " from the poster suggests he/she may not
| have the knowledge or patience for a long uphill struggle to get the tree
| back into some semblance of health.

Well as, generally, no treatment is needed for canker, surely he
starts at an advantage? :-)

| That said I know one little tree down in N.Cornwall that I get to prune
| every few years that is riddled with canker but still produces a good crop
| of well sized apples. I wonder if the salt spray helps keep the disease in
| check.

Nope. I have seen that on trees a long way from the sea. I stand
by my comment that canker isn't critical - I take your point about
the other aspects indicating that it may be beyond recovery.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Martin Bonner" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 9:04 pm, Nick Powell Nick.Powell.
wrote:
Hi all,

This is my first post here, so please bear with me.

I've recently moved into a property and inherited a horrendously
overgrown garden, I've spent much of the past 4 months clearing out
rubble and removing a lot of overgrowth. The apple tree in the garden
doesn't look to well and I don't think it's been looked after for a
number of years. I've included some pics:

It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.

The small wriggly twigs are fine - they are where you are most likely
to get flowers and more side shoots. It's the long straight twigs/
branches that aren't doing you any good.

I'd start by checking if there's any dead or dying wood. If so, cut
it out. Then I'd try to cut back say 2/3rds of the long straight
shoots by 2/3rds, and cut back the remaining 1/3 by 1/3. (The idea is
that you want to get a variety of lengths, rather than cutting
everything back and getting another rash of water shoots).

When you cut back, cut back to an outward or downward facing shoot
(that way you won't get such a crowded centre). Try and arrange for
horizontal branches rather than vertical (horizontal fruits better).

I wouldn't worry about the canker/woolly aphid if any. When we moved
into our last house, there where two apple trees clearly on their last
legs, so we quickly planted some more. Ten years later they were
still fruiting strongly! (and the new trees were doing OK too).

Incidentally, are you sure it isn't a crab apple? Was the fruit
astringent when ripe?
--------------------------
You are going to have to have much courage whether you want to keep the
apple trees or you don't.
I and my son-in-low a few years ago had five trees, ((not apple trees, -
Firs..), close together on a medium sized lawn.
It took us both a long time to get rid of them.. We dropped them to two
feet high dug out all the soil about two feet down, around.the massive
convoluted roots which were tangled with each other, and when attacked
again the woodsmans axe simply bounced off and hardly made a mark. They
were in a clay-ish "soil". We removed as much "soil" as possible
Nothing to do but abandon for the time being . Six months later we had
another go without success. About a year later we sallied forth again.
We were in luck. The roots had begun to rot and were slightly brittle..
With patience and slogging hard work we slowly started winning and the
tough fibres began to give way to the electric saw, metal wedges and a big
well sharpened axe.
I do not lie when I say, that last successful battle took us four full
days.
Doug.
-----------------------

On 27 Nov, 11:54, Martin Bonner wrote:
It looks to me like it was hacked back a few years ago to the thick
branches. The hacked ends then sprouted lots of water shoots, and you
have lots of thin branches going everywhere.
The small wriggly twigs are fine - they are where you are most likely
to get flowers and more side shoots. It's the long straight twigs/
branches that aren't doing you any good.
I'd start by checking if there's any dead or dying wood. If so, cut
it out. Then I'd try to cut back say 2/3rds of the long straight
shoots by 2/3rds, and cut back the remaining 1/3 by 1/3. (The idea is
that you want to get a variety of lengths, rather than cutting
everything back and getting another rash of water shoots).
When you cut back, cut back to an outward or downward facing shoot
(that way you won't get such a crowded centre). Try and arrange for
horizontal branches rather than vertical (horizontal fruits better).
I wouldn't worry about the canker/woolly aphid if any. When we moved
into our last house, there where two apple trees clearly on their last
legs, so we quickly planted some more. Ten years later they were
still fruiting strongly! (and the new trees were doing OK too).
Incidentally, are you sure it isn't a crab apple? Was the fruit
astringent when ripe?

Yes to everything! Crab apple came to mind to me too because of the
reference of the size of the apples Nick is getting. Also if I can add
my two pennies worth, clear out a good size ring on the ground to bare
earth around the tree. Diseases and bugs harbour there and apples
don't like competition with weeds/grass etc. I'd also use a pheromone
trap to get the chaps of the moth species to maximise next year's
yield. That and a dry sunny spring for a show of blossoms and Nick
ought to get a nice result )

Nick Maclaren writes

In article ,
Charlie Pridham writes:
|
| As Bob has said it may have a bit of canker, but all my trees have that
| and still produce more apples than I can cope with! try inspecting one of
| the brown lumpy growths as its possible that the may have colenys of
| wolly aphid hiding in them. these and the canker can be treated while you
| get the tree back to a better shape, do a bit each year, its not a big
| tree and will not take forever. Bobs advice is sound if you want maximum
| crops or have the space to try again somewhere else, but if it was mine I
| would keep the tree.


One of the reasons that I dislike most advice books is that they
are the opposite. Simple, conditional-free recipes. And, like all
such simplifications, they are wrong more often than right, because
they are true under only some conditions. And canker is a prime
example.

Why do they all regard canker as something to eliminate, even at
the cost of replacing the tree? It is unsightly, can weaken major
branches and does harbour woolly aphids, but it does effectively
nothing to reduce the crop. Perhaps 10%, but how many amateurs
care about that?

I've had bad canker on a Herrings Pippin, and it did seriously weaken
the tree (it was many times worse than that in the tree we're
discussing). But I cut out what I could, pruned carefully, and the tree
is now back on the way up, producing about 30lbs of apples. And since
Herrings Pippin doesn't have a long eating season, if it gets to more
than 60lb I will start having a problem!
--
Kay

In article , Nick.Powell.1c18d58
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

Thanks for all your comments ...

With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit
last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably
no bigger than a plum.

I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old?

I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it
could be me being naive

Cheers
Nick
If the apples are small and bitter then it may be that you have a crab apple.
if they were small sweet and a lot of them then maybe your variet does not have
an efficient June drop and you need to thin the apples. the fruitlets tend to
occur in bunches of 2-5 if you thin that doen to just 1 then you may get a
better result and more regular cropping. Dwarfing rootstock has been around for
at least 40 years that I know about. Your tree could be quite old but grafted
on to a root which would stop it growing tall.

Gill M

--

addy gill[at]pcservicesreading[dot]co[dot]uk

Nick Powell writes

Thanks for all your comments ...

With regards to the question of fruit, the tree did have a lot of fruit
last year but unfortunately they were all quite small apples, probably
no bigger than a plum.

I'd been interested to know why people think the tree is so old?

I assummed it was not too old because it wasn't very tall, although it
could be me being naive

Not *so* old - somewhere around 10-15 years from the diameter of the
trunk. But it's a lot of years to lose if it's any good.

If you want to give it a try next year, try thinning out the fruit after
June so that it's not carrying more than it can cope with (this will
help stop it bearing biennially too). And if you're in the SE rather
than the NW of the country, make sure it has a stable water supply over
the summer.
--
Kay