Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:14:58 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote: Personally I strimmed mine and then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial ones Thanks. I'll check which way south is. I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
"Fred" wrote after... "Bob Hobden" replied Personally I strimmed mine and then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial ones Thanks. I'll check which way south is. I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ? Supposed to be, yes. I would not use it again on my present plot but it does do a good job if starting from a wild patch and if I had to start another new allotment from such a state I would certainly use it again. Couch grass is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way. -- Regards Bob Hobden 17mls W. of London.UK |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
In article , Bob Hobden
writes Couch grass is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way. Not forgetting ground elder which is also horrendous to clear and easily spread. -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On 10 Jan, 18:18, Fred wrote:
Thanks. I'll check which way south is. Indeed - and if you are planning fruit trees, think of their eventual height (and therefore root diameter) so that they don't cast a long shadow on your crops and don't take most of your soil allocated to your vegs. Also it depends what your crops are. I grow fruit bushes in partial shade and find they crop much better, are sweeter and firmer and last longer. Same for the strawbs and leaf vegs. I'm sure you've made a plan on paper. Checking your soil would be an idea too so that you start on a good footing. Spending time observing the plot, for wind and sun paterns is a great start. The weeds also will indicates the type of soil you have. The slope is often an advantage for fruit trees, as described by Bob - the worry there would be frost pockets and wind breaks. You must find your orientations before organising your planting if you're on a slope even a slight one. I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ? I am absolutely against this. I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they don't mind. (I'd also add that if you are planning to sell your vegetables as asked previously, you need to check your council, as that is not allowed unless specified otherwise, and get a licence if your allotment is not certified organic by the FSC, because food stuff might be contaminated with chemicals and metals etc.). We have 120 plots and we are all organic. We don't sell our surplus but share it, which is much nicer. I would also not use a rotovator for the reason given by Mike. I've successfully cleared many plots for years using elbow grease. It has brought me closer to the ground, to the soil and in this way I've found lots of information about the soil I'm about to work with. I don't think the local Robin will come next to your petrol smoke chucking rotovator to help itself to the bugs you've unearthed of it. It is perhaps a slower process but in the end it really pays up. Isn't this what gardening is all about after all? Finally, your plot must be at its maximum lenght of 10 rods!? Therefore there's very little need to go to the expense of using petrol machinery. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
"Jeff Layman" wrote Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment holder? Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't? Ours uses weedkiller on all unused plots. It's not a problem and ensures you have clean ground to start with. Anything else is just a backbreaking fight against perennial weeds which you may not win. Glysophate is not a pernicious chemical and quickly breaks down on contact with soil. -- Regards Bob Hobden 17mls W. of London.UK |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:47:22 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment holder? Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't? Ours uses weedkiller on all unused plots. It's not a problem and ensures you have clean ground to start with. Anything else is just a backbreaking fight against perennial weeds which you may not win. Glysophate is not a pernicious chemical and quickly breaks down on contact with soil. Are there a lot of unused plots? I've read my council has a waiting list of 400 (on an allotment total of 600 - which doesn't sound like a lot) -- http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk Or get it delivered for free |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
"Mogga" wrote Are there a lot of unused plots? I've read my council has a waiting list of 400 (on an allotment total of 600 - which doesn't sound like a lot) Not now, our old site was closed down and we have been promised a new smaller site eventually on part of the land but we moved anyway to another site that was about half full which has since filled up so only about 3 plots are now vacant. Although rumour has it that they are taken too, just not turned up to do anything yet. -- Regards Bob Hobden |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On 11 Jan, 14:23, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment holder? Not that I know of, sadly. It is something many are talking about at the moment. Also isn't it the whole point of having an allotment so that we can grow our food stuff free of chemicals?! I know of 3 allotments in Greater Manchester that started from scratch in the last 3 years and which are entirely organic, by general rule, one of which is from Stockport Council via the work of the WEA. It's usually easier to do this from the starting point of creating the plots. You will also find that all 'community plot' within an allotment are all organic even if the whole allotment is not (which makes little sense to me). This is on the basis that local school/ organisation/retirement homes/health group etc. are using it. Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't? Off course! Now, having said that it's only a directive, not a rule, yet. We have discovered that there's still 2 plots using insecticides on ours but no weed killers. Any new plot let out is targetted and given advice with clearing the plot, pampered and given lots of help. I can't remember anyone trying glyphosate - not on a 10 rods plot. At one time you could tell who used weed killers, their front row of flowers didn't interest much wildlife and their leeks where the biggest ones, but not necessarily the tastiest ) |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On 11 Jan, 18:09, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
wrote: The reason I asked the question was that I thought your original posting was misleading (but didn't know for certain), and you have confirmed it. Quote: "I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they don't mind.". Using "If this is allowed" makes it sound official, which is isn't. You really shouldn't make your prejudices about chemicals appear to represent official - or even unofficial - policy. You will find than the majority usually takes the day. In this case, if by committee there's an agreement, it will become the rule. It's a bit strong to think my opinions are prejudices. It's what I beleive in. On a 10 rods plot there's no need for chemical use. Give me a good reason for this. I have absolutely no objection to you believing in organic cultivation, and following those principles. And as you ask, no, the point of having an allotment is to grow whatever the holder wants, how he or she wants (within reason), without affecting the other allotment holders. As Sacha's article in the time points: "There are also concerns with what is used in growing food. Allotment gardeners tend not to use chemicals at all and when they do, they at least can control it." And that's what I meant indeed. It is a choice - but if I can make change the views of those who do use chemicals, I'll do it in everyway I can and make our allotments entirely organic, and across the country if I can do that too! I am afraid that an "all organic" allotment makes little sense to me. I don't have an allotment Well that's perhaps our misunderstanding. , and in my garden I use as few chemicals as possible, but I can't see the point in having whole plants destroyed and doing nothing about it. Organic gardening is not 'not doing nothing about it'. I suggest you learn a bit more about it before attempting to convince me that it doesn't work. Actually, that's not quite true - I give up trying to grow plants where chemicals have failed to control the pest because they are ineffective or the pest has grown resistant (eg in this area, anything which is edible to the lily beetle). So you've used something stronger or have you given up eating vegetables all together?! It's precisely why you should not use chemicals in the first place. There's a reason why you are failing and I would, if you give me more information about the crop you have attempted to grow, show you that you can grow absolutely anything and control the pests and weeds without using chemicals. And what if they ignore the advice, and start using insecticides? It's a shame. But like you, they'll manage to saturate their garden where it will take a long time to re-establish the ecosystem. You are obviously very confused about glyphosate. As soon as it hits the ground, it becomes inactive. It is the bane of organic gardeners because they can't find anything it does other than what it is supposed to - kill plants it is sprayed on. My problem with it is the instant killing of everything without any understanding of why weeds are there in the first place. Glyphosate takes with it habitats, without habitats you don't have insects, without insects you don't have birds - that is my problem Jeff, not a the fact that it is a chemical per say, but the destruction of environments which support insects on which your, YOUR food stuff depends on. You are in effect removing what benefits your garden the most for the sake of easthetic and nothing else. Easthetic! Now that's sad, don't you think? You could just pull them up, dry them and compost them or use them as mulch. I can only think that you are just imagining that "their front row of flowers didn't interest much wildlife". No, they come to admire my rows full of colours and life with scabious, geums, nettles, aquilegias, echinaceas... as opposed to the single huge dahlias proped up with canes and strings sandwiches between two badly pruned rose bushes that they think is the ultimate in flower growing! But that's a matter of taste perhaps. If the glyphosate had hit those plants there wouldn't have been anything around for the wildlife to take an interest in, Indeed. You are right. There's nothing there beside two rose bushes and some dahlias with fancy tags on to keep them upright. and if it hadn't those plants would have been no different from any other. I think allowing a range of plants to grow is a good thing for any garden. Think about it. If you just nuke everything, you'll take out the good with the bad. Doing things by hand, and I stress here on an allotment plot and not acres, is a good thing. By the time you've finished tackling persistant weeds, it would have benefited another part of your garden by providing an habitat. That's the cycle that you need in a garden. That's gardening. Did you do a comparative wildlife survey with flowers in organic allotment plots? Not on allotments but I did one last year on 4 acres of urban land derelict for 10 years. It was an eye opener. Did _you_ try the leeks? What was their taste like? Off course, I'll try anything! And I prefer the smaller ones. The big ones were not as sweet and one leek was sufficient for one soup in my house! A range of plants, food crops and a mix of fruit bushes is all an allotment needs - not rows upon rows of spuds and massive leeks, which are exactly what those plots have, with two roses and dahlias on strings. But that the plot holder's choice. Isn't it. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
On 11/1/08 19:36, in article
, " wrote: On 11 Jan, 18:09, "Jeff Layman" wrote: wrote: The reason I asked the question was that I thought your original posting was misleading (but didn't know for certain), and you have confirmed it. Quote: "I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they don't mind.". Using "If this is allowed" makes it sound official, which is isn't. You really shouldn't make your prejudices about chemicals appear to represent official - or even unofficial - policy. You will find than the majority usually takes the day. In this case, if by committee there's an agreement, it will become the rule. It's a bit strong to think my opinions are prejudices. It's what I beleive in. On a 10 rods plot there's no need for chemical use. Give me a good reason for this. I have absolutely no objection to you believing in organic cultivation, and following those principles. And as you ask, no, the point of having an allotment is to grow whatever the holder wants, how he or she wants (within reason), without affecting the other allotment holders. As Sacha's article in the time points: "There are also concerns with what is used in growing food. Allotment gardeners tend not to use chemicals at all and when they do, they at least can control it." And that's what I meant indeed. It is a choice - but if I can make change the views of those who do use chemicals, I'll do it in everyway I can and make our allotments entirely organic, and across the country if I can do that too! snip Do not use my words to support you, if you please. You are quoting out of context and it is indeed ironic that if you use me to support you, you must indeed be desperate to impose your views on others. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove weeds from address) 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
allotments
|
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
My Allotments Update | Edible Gardening | |||
glasgows forgotten allotments | United Kingdom | |||
info on allotments please | United Kingdom | |||
Allotments Trusts | United Kingdom | |||
Allotments Group | United Kingdom |