Hi

I'm a keen amatuer gardener, albeit relatively new to it. I'm seriously considering a career change and am considering applying for a place on a foundation degree in Horticulture and garden design.

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work (obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend it?!

Many thanks, mark

mcmac74 wrote:

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
every finger and are not bothered by smelling of cat shit, then it may
be a good career change.

Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Mar 4, 8:56*pm, (A.Lee) wrote:
mcmac74 wrote:
I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
every finger and are not bothered by smelling of cat shit, then it may
be a good career change.

Alan.

The last of the great romantics...

:-)

Cat(h)

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
mcmac74 wrote:

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
every finger and are not bothered by smelling of cat shit, then it may
be a good career change.

Alan.
--

Some very very good answers on the subject but can I throw in some more
problems with being self employed please?

What happens when you go on holiday? You are going to have to plan to go in
the quiet period.

What happens if you are sick? Not so much about you but your customers? They
will have to find someone else , will they come back to you?

Breakdown of your tools/lawnmower/strimmer etc. Have you taken into account
wear and tear maintenance and replacements?

AND, and this is a big AND, your retirement? How long could you go on and
what provisions are you to make about retiring? (This applies to any self
employed person and having been in business both as a Director and as a self
employed sole trader AND as a partner, I was able to make provision for
retirement and now live on a very nice pension, BUT, in the very early days
of running your own business, the thought is very hard to conjure up
'Retirement and financial management')

Self employment? Not all rosy :-(

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.

In article ,
says...


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
mcmac74 wrote:

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
The secret as always is to charge enough, if you get no takers maybe
there is not a viable business. I know several gardener/landscapers down
here and all are happy with their earnings but all rely on contracts to
maintain hotels, golf clubs, and holiday cottages rather than cutting
someones grass once a fortnight. And the holiday issue is a very real
one, its like a double wammy, you have to pay for the holiday and take a
cut in wages at the same time (you get used to it but it takes time) The
biggest adjustment I had to make was not having the money in my account
at the start of the month so not being certain that the big bills
like the mortgage would be covered, it took around 7 years of it turning
out ok before I was able to relax. I am a nurseryman not a gardener but
tried the gardening route to start with and quickly came to the same
conclusions as above, lots of customers, non prepared to pay enough. had
I been properly trained I may have realised the right way to set up and
been fine, as it was I thought like a lot of people that because I was
good at gardening for me that I could do it for others, unfortunately you
can keep busy and suppliment an income or pension but if you want a
living you have to do it properly and set up a proper business.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...


"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
mcmac74 wrote:

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
The secret as always is to charge enough, if you get no takers maybe
there is not a viable business. I know several gardener/landscapers down
here and all are happy with their earnings but all rely on contracts to
maintain hotels, golf clubs, and holiday cottages rather than cutting
someones grass once a fortnight. And the holiday issue is a very real
one, its like a double wammy, you have to pay for the holiday and take a
cut in wages at the same time (you get used to it but it takes time) The
biggest adjustment I had to make was not having the money in my account
at the start of the month so not being certain that the big bills
like the mortgage would be covered, it took around 7 years of it turning
out ok before I was able to relax. I am a nurseryman not a gardener but
tried the gardening route to start with and quickly came to the same
conclusions as above, lots of customers, non prepared to pay enough. had
I been properly trained I may have realised the right way to set up and
been fine, as it was I thought like a lot of people that because I was
good at gardening for me that I could do it for others, unfortunately you
can keep busy and suppliment an income or pension but if you want a
living you have to do it properly and set up a proper business.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

If you take on annual contracts as u stated then u should get paid monthly
or quarterly regardless of whether u are on holiday or not.I am able to take
about 8 weeks holiday a year as is my business partner we just cover each
other when the other is away and it makes no difference to monthly payments.

On 5/3/08 10:19, in article ,
"pied piper" wrote:


"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...


"A.Lee" wrote in message
news:1idapa0.1dchge197flo8N%alan@darkroom.+ wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
The secret as always is to charge enough, if you get no takers maybe
there is not a viable business. I know several gardener/landscapers down
here and all are happy with their earnings but all rely on contracts to
maintain hotels, golf clubs, and holiday cottages rather than cutting
someones grass once a fortnight. And the holiday issue is a very real
one, its like a double wammy, you have to pay for the holiday and take a
cut in wages at the same time (you get used to it but it takes time) The
biggest adjustment I had to make was not having the money in my account
at the start of the month so not being certain that the big bills
like the mortgage would be covered, it took around 7 years of it turning
out ok before I was abl wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
The secret as always is to charge enough, if you get no takers maybe
there is not a viable business. I know several gardener/landscapers down
here and all are happy with their earnings but all rely on contracts to
maintain hotels, golf clubs, and holiday cottages rather than cutting
someones grass once a fortnight. And the holiday issue is a very real
one, its like a double wammy, you have to pay for the holiday and take a
cut in wages at the same time (you get used to it but it takes time) The
biggest adjustment I had to make was not having the money in my account
at the start of the month so not being certain that the big bills
like the mortgage would be covered, it took around 7 years of it turning
out ok before I was abl wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
The secret as always is to charge enough, if you get no takers maybe
there is not a viable business. I know several gardener/landscapers down
here and all are happy with their earnings but all rely on contracts to
maintain hotels, golf clubs, and holiday cottages rather than cutting
someones grass once a fortnight. And the holiday issue is a very real
one, its like a double wammy, you have to pay for the holiday and take a
cut in wages at the same time (you get used to it but it takes time) The
biggest adjustment I had to make was not having the money in my account
at the start of the month so not being certain get paid monthly
or quarterly regardless of whether u are on holiday or not.I am able to take
about 8 weeks holiday a year as is my business partner we just cover each
Other when the other is away and it makes no difference to monthly payments.




But surely this is different to the OP's question, which was about landscape
gardening. Landscape jobs tend to be done and finished with, unless
maintenance becomes part of the deal. We did a biggish job for someone last
year, got paid for it and it was over. We're about to embark on another but
will not be remaining there to keep the garden. That's fine because the
Nursery is the main focus of this place and those jobs are more or less as a
favour because we're supplying the planting. They're certainly not a major
source of income.

As Charlie says, those he knows who are landscape gardeners in Cornwall,
rely on contracts to keep them going. If landscaping work dries up, there
is no income *unless* you're lucky enough to be working as contract
gardeners, too. In the right area, one could probably have a prosperous
business which does both but it has to be somewhere where people will pay a
good rate for garden maintenance.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Thanks for the replies. My main interest lies in garden design and project management, weather that be a small domestic garden or small business grounds. I like the idea of designing from scratch rather than on- going maintenence (although that is obviously part of it). Perhaps landscape gardener is the wrong title?

Mark

On 5/3/08 12:38, in article , "mcmac74"
wrote:

snip

Thanks for the replies. My main interest lies in garden design and
project management, weather that be a small domestic garden or small
business grounds. I like the idea of designing from scratch rather than
on- going maintenence (although that is obviously part of it). Perhaps
landscape gardener is the wrong title?

Landscape architect, perhaps?
http://www.tarsonpartnership.com/
http://tinyurl.com/239pvh

In our experience, such people don't always know a lot about plants so if
you're not already pretty knowledgeable, some basic training in that
direction could only help you. I remember visiting the Getty Museum gardens
and being told that, to design them, the landscape architect had to go off
and learn something about planting them!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
says...
If you take on annual contracts as u stated then u should get paid monthly
or quarterly regardless of whether u are on holiday or not.I am able to take
about 8 weeks holiday a year as is my business partner we just cover each
other when the other is away and it makes no difference to monthly payments.


That's what I meant, you have a proper business are are not an odd job
gardener.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

'Mike' wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
mcmac74 wrote:

I'd be very keen to hear from others on the site who are landscape
gardeners, particularly those who have set up their own businesses. My
primary motivation is the fact that i enjoy the outdoors and the
opportunity to work creatively. I don't mind physical work and i want
to be my own boss. My main concern is that i'd be taking a fairly big
drop in salary if the averages they talk about on career web sites are
to be believed (15K - 26K). I'd really like to know about peoples
experiences doing this, do they enjoy it, is there a lot of work
(obviously depends on the area) and generally would you reccommend
it?!

Concerning self-employment.
I started doing it last June, but could not make a living out of it.
It has been discussed on here several times, some people think that
paying £8 an hour to a gardener is about right.
I dont think you can earn a living at less than £15 an hour, and £20
would be more realistic.
If you need a breakdown of the various expenses, then I can do one for
you.

Firstly you'll need to get customers. Easier than it sounds. You can get
5 or 6 quite easily by puttings ads in papershops/Post Offices etc.
To earn a living, you need at least 20 regular customers. Most only need
a visit every 2 weeks during the growing season, and once a month during
late Autumn/Winter/early spring. But getting 20 is the hard thing.
You'll need to advertise regularly.
Then they need to be close together, to cut down your travelling time.
If you do 3 gardens at 2 hours each, in a day, then you will have done
well. You may fit in a 4th if they are local. But then you are doing
well over a 9 hour day. Even getting 2 people within 10 minutes of each
other will be difficult to start with.
You will be asked to do all the horrible jobs that people dont want to
do themselves. It wont be a life of pottering around a garden doing a
bit of pruning, and picking up the odd weed. You'll be clearing thick
brambles and stingers, as well as treading in the cat shit. I'm not
joking.

To make things worse, there are the (at least) 1 in 20 working days that
it will be too wet to work. Then the quiet months of December, January
and February. If a gardener is busy in those months, then he is the
exception. There is only so much hedge trimming and tidying that can be
done in a typical garden.

So, to sum, if you like working for £150 a week,dont mind thorn holes in
every finger and are not bothered by smelling of cat shit, then it may
be a good career change.

Alan.
--

Some very very good answers on the subject but can I throw in some more
problems with being self employed please?

What happens when you go on holiday? You are going to have to plan to go in
the quiet period.

What happens if you are sick? Not so much about you but your customers? They
will have to find someone else , will they come back to you?

Breakdown of your tools/lawnmower/strimmer etc. Have you taken into account
wear and tear maintenance and replacements?

AND, and this is a big AND, your retirement? How long could you go on and
what provisions are you to make about retiring? (This applies to any self
employed person and having been in business both as a Director and as a self
employed sole trader AND as a partner, I was able to make provision for
retirement and now live on a very nice pension, BUT, in the very early days
of running your own business, the thought is very hard to conjure up
'Retirement and financial management')

Self employment? Not all rosy :-(

But everybody are not the same. Everybody get on making a living somehow.
Being employed in a company, and you're subject to the fortunes of market
conditions for that company; not really much different from being
self-employed. Of course if you can get a job in the Council, then that's
another matter. I despise local councils who invent new functions which we
haven't asked for, then treat people as if they were a nuisance if you ask
the council to do something. "We will reply within 10 working days...blabla".
Even if they mess up, council the council taxpayers always foot the bill.