Found this whilst out for a stroll at the weekend. I wondered what it is?
Flower head about an inch in diameter.



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nts/flower.jpg



mark

In message , mark
writes
Found this whilst out for a stroll at the weekend. I wondered what it is?
Flower head about an inch in diameter.



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nts/flower.jpg



mark


Marsh or Spotted Orchid (Dactyorhiza sp.). I haven't yet developed the
knack of telling the various species apart. (Note, spotted applies to
the leaves, not the flowers.)
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
In message , mark
writes
Found this whilst out for a stroll at the weekend. I wondered what it is?
Flower head about an inch in diameter.



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nts/flower.jpg



mark


Marsh or Spotted Orchid (Dactyorhiza sp.). I haven't yet developed the
knack of telling the various species apart. (Note, spotted applies to
the leaves, not the flowers.)

I'd have said Common spotted (Dactylorhyza fuchsii) from the very long
thin obvious central tooth of the lower lip and the general slightly
raggedy look of the flower spike. None of the other marsh orchids has a
central tooth which approaches the size of the two side lobes.. But like
Stewart I'm still learning.

--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
In message , mark
writes
Found this whilst out for a stroll at the weekend. I wondered what it is?
Flower head about an inch in diameter.



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nts/flower.jpg



mark


Marsh or Spotted Orchid (Dactyorhiza sp.). I haven't yet developed the
knack of telling the various species apart. (Note, spotted applies to the
leaves, not the flowers.)

I'd have said Common spotted (Dactylorhyza fuchsii) from the very long
thin obvious central tooth of the lower lip and the general slightly
raggedy look of the flower spike. None of the other marsh orchids has a
central tooth which approaches the size of the two side lobes.. But like
Stewart I'm still learning.

--
Kay



Thank you.
I'm off to google.........

Back!
Yep, seems to be a Spotted orchid. As for the 'common' bit..hmmmphf! Not
that common because I don't recall seeing one before.


An aside:
Something strange is going on with my posts. I didn't see my original post
nor SRH's reply but I saw this reply from K. Wonder if this will show up.
I'm using Outlook Express and have not had any such problems previously. Any
ideas?

mark

In message , mark
writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
In message , mark
writes
Found this whilst out for a stroll at the weekend. I wondered what it is?
Flower head about an inch in diameter.



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nts/flower.jpg



mark


Marsh or Spotted Orchid (Dactyorhiza sp.). I haven't yet developed the
knack of telling the various species apart. (Note, spotted applies to the
leaves, not the flowers.)

I'd have said Common spotted (Dactylorhyza fuchsii) from the very long
thin obvious central tooth of the lower lip and the general slightly
raggedy look of the flower spike. None of the other marsh orchids has a
central tooth which approaches the size of the two side lobes.. But like
Stewart I'm still learning.

--
Kay



Thank you.
I'm off to google.........

Back!
Yep, seems to be a Spotted orchid. As for the 'common' bit..hmmmphf! Not
that common because I don't recall seeing one before.

Once you've learned to recognise a plant it becomes often becomes
surprisingly common. I never knowingly saw native Dactylorhiza, except
for a colony in an NT garden, until last year, but I now know of over a
dozen localities. It seems to be commoner than other orchids; I haven't
seen any others growing wild.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
Once you've learned to recognise a plant it becomes often becomes
surprisingly common. I never knowingly saw native Dactylorhiza, except
for a colony in an NT garden, until last year, but I now know of over a
dozen localities.

It can be in hordes - hundreds of flowers in an area. According to
Harrap Orchids of Britain and Ireland "In much of Britain and Ireland
this is the commonest orchid, and it is often to be found in large
numbers. Nevertheless, there are large tracts of countryside that are
not graced by its presence".

It seems to be commoner than other orchids; I haven't seen any others
growing wild.

You have to be in the right bit of the country :-) (Limestone helps, as
does absence of sheep) On Monday, when I was caving not botanising,
there were a couple of dozen common spotted next to where I parked the
car, with 3 or 4 twayblades. A couple of weeks ago, an afternoon's
gentle ramble netted early purple, common spotted, northern marsh,
twayblade, frog, fragrant, and bee. Next time I am confident that I will
see another 3, possibly 4 species.

--
Kay

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , mark
writes

Yep, seems to be a Spotted orchid. As for the 'common' bit..hmmmphf! Not
that common because I don't recall seeing one before.

Once you've learned to recognise a plant it becomes often becomes
surprisingly common. I never knowingly saw native Dactylorhiza, except for
a colony in an NT garden, until last year, but I now know of over a dozen
localities. It seems to be commoner than other orchids; I haven't seen any
others growing wild.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Common Spotted is about the most common orchid in UK. In some areas the
Early Purple is more common. Marsh and Pyramidal orchids are somewhat less
common and the other couple of dozen species are quite rare or extremely
rare. They only grow on undisturbed ground such as ancient pastureland or
woodland as they take many years to reach flowering size.

A few years back I saw thousands of Early Purples growing on Warton Crag
(near Carnforth in Lancs). Since then I have never seen more than a few
dozen in the same locality. Other species such as Bee Orchid are prone to
this habit of suddenly appearing in huge numbers then nothing for years.

BTW don't dig them up to plant in your garden because (a) it's against the
law and (b) it won't work anyway - they are the fussiest plants known. You
can't even take the seed because it will not germinate.

R.

It's a "Southern Marsh Orchid".

Ragnar wrote:
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In message , mark
writes

Yep, seems to be a Spotted orchid. As for the 'common' bit..hmmmphf! Not
that common because I don't recall seeing one before.

Once you've learned to recognise a plant it becomes often becomes
surprisingly common. I never knowingly saw native Dactylorhiza, except
for a colony in an NT garden, until last year, but I now know of over a
dozen localities. It seems to be commoner than other orchids; I haven't
seen any others growing wild.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Common Spotted is about the most common orchid in UK. In some areas the
Early Purple is more common. Marsh and Pyramidal orchids are somewhat
less common and the other couple of dozen species are quite rare or
extremely rare. They only grow on undisturbed ground such as ancient
pastureland or woodland as they take many years to reach flowering size.

A few years back I saw thousands of Early Purples growing on Warton Crag
(near Carnforth in Lancs). Since then I have never seen more than a few
dozen in the same locality. Other species such as Bee Orchid are prone to
this habit of suddenly appearing in huge numbers then nothing for years.

BTW don't dig them up to plant in your garden because (a) it's against the
law and (b) it won't work anyway - they are the fussiest plants known. You
can't even take the seed because it will not germinate.

R.

The seed will germinate, but if it doesn't find its fungal partner it will
soon die.

But you are dead right about the apparently ephemeral nature of many
orchids. I've often looked for bee orchids (in particular) in the same
spot, only to find them "gone". Years later they are back, only to
disappear again. This doesn't seem to be the case with common spotted
orchids, which seem very reliable. If you can get to Wakehurst Place in
mid-late June, you can find hundreds - if not thousands - flowering well
there.

--
Jeff

londongarden writes

It's a "Southern Marsh Orchid".


For the benefit of those of us who are still struggling to learn how to
distinguish between the various species of Dactylorhiza, can you explain
why you think it is that and not a common spotted orchid? The pictures
I've seen of Southern Marsh all have a much tinier central tooth, and
they tend to be a more purplish pink.

--
Kay

"Ragnar" wrote ...

Common Spotted is about the most common orchid in UK. In some areas the
Early Purple is more common. Marsh and Pyramidal orchids are somewhat
less common and the other couple of dozen species are quite rare or
extremely rare. They only grow on undisturbed ground such as ancient
pastureland or woodland as they take many years to reach flowering size.

A few years back I saw thousands of Early Purples growing on Warton Crag
(near Carnforth in Lancs). Since then I have never seen more than a few
dozen in the same locality. Other species such as Bee Orchid are prone to
this habit of suddenly appearing in huge numbers then nothing for years.

BTW don't dig them up to plant in your garden because (a) it's against the
law and (b) it won't work anyway - they are the fussiest plants known. You
can't even take the seed because it will not germinate.

The seed will germinate but needs to find it's correct fungus immediately or
it dies. I have had my D. fuchsii and D.maculate hybridise , they are
marginal in our pond, and germinate from seed in an old pot of lilies I
hadn't repotted for some years. I assume the lilies also use the fungus and
the pot was therefore infected to the liking of the orchids. I simply let
them grow for a couple of years and then repotted the lot using the old lily
pot compost for the orchids.
It worked and I now have the old pot of lilies and a separate pot of hybrid
orchids that flower better each year.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
just W. of London

On Jul 9, 6:42*pm, londongarden londongarden.
wrote:
It's a "Southern Marsh Orchid".
londongarden

Definitely not the Southern Marsh Orchid (Dactylorhiza praetermissa).
Ignoring the colour, that species has a shallowly lobed labellum with
the laterals tending to reflex back the more prominent, central, tooth-
like lobe. However, I'm not convinced that it is pure D. fuchsii
either even though it is possibly the most variable of the
Dactylorhizas. Fuchsii is very promiscuous, capable of growing in a
wide range of habitats and soils. Where it meets other related
species, it hybridises readily and this looks more like a hybrid to
me.

Definitely not the Southern Marsh Orchid (Dactylorhiza praetermissa).
Ignoring the colour, that species has a shallowly lobed labellum with
the laterals tending to reflex back the more prominent, central, tooth-
like lobe. However, I'm not convinced that it is pure D. fuchsii
either even though it is possibly the most variable of the
Dactylorhizas. Fuchsii is very promiscuous, capable of growing in a
wide range of habitats and soils. Where it meets other related
species, it hybridises readily and this looks more like a hybrid to
me.

Please, Dave, why does it look more like a hybrid? I'm still trying to
get to grips with Dactylorhiza
--
Kay

On Jul 10, 8:33*pm, Kay wrote:
However, I'm not convinced that it is pure D. fuchsii
either even though it is possibly the most variable of the
Dactylorhizas. *Fuchsii is very promiscuous, capable of growing in a
wide range of habitats and soils. *Where it meets other related
species, it hybridises readily and this looks more like a hybrid to
me.

Please, Dave, why does it look more like a hybrid? I'm still trying to
get to grips with Dactylorhiza

Yes it's a confusing genus made worse by the variability of the
commonest species and their willingness to interbreed even with other
genera. I was a bit surprised to see that Richard Bateman included
the frog orchid (Coeloglossum) in Dactylorhiza, but in view of its
undoubtedly close genetic affinity (as evidenced by frequent hybrids
between them, plus their structural similarities) it does make sense.
Now, down to this little teaser:

Firstly, even taking into account a possible, slight distortion of the
image, which may or may not have taken place in downloading to
photobucket, I'm struck by the way the entire flower is somewhat
narrowed. The lateral sepals are sub-erect and comparatively narrow,
rather than spreading as is the norm with most fuchsii. However, it
is the labellum (lip) and its markings that really set it apart. Even
allowing for variability, the lateral lobes of fuchsii are generally
broad and rhomboidal while the middle lobe is longer and triangular.
Markings tend to appear as a series of dots and lines more or less
across the lip, usually within a double loop that may or may not be
broken.

In the op's pic as mentioned before, the lateral sepals are slightly
twisted, unusually erect and in this it shares some similarity with
the Marsh orchids; D. incarnata, praetermissa, purpurella and
traunsteineri etc. However, the markings and structure of the lip
plus the slender, slightly upward-curving spur (short, fat and conical
in the Marsh orchids) take it far from those species and put it closer
to fuchsii. Then there is the dorsal sepal, which in fuchsii forms a
hood with the lateral petals over the pollinia (pollen sacs). In the
op's pic it is quite erect with only the dorsal sepals forming the
hood.

With the lip we see only narrowly rhomboidal lateral lobes that are
almost as long as the distinctive, central lobe. The lobes are very
deeply cleft to half the length of the lip, giving a very open
appearance to the flower. I've also noticed that immediately below
the pollinia in the centre of the flower, there appears to be a pair
of imperfectly formed lobes that partly obscure the mouth of the
spur. Finally, there's no hint of the usual fuchsii double loop
(broken or entire) on the lip and most noticeable is the way in which
the few markings that exist are concentrated on the central lobe.

So having almost established that it isn't some aberrant form of D.
fuchsii, it bears no significant similarity to any of the other native
Dactylorhizas. Therefore, it is most likely to be a hybrid. Quite a
few, intra-generic hybrids naturally occurring in the UK are already
documented and this plant doesn't really compare with any of those
that I've either seen so far or researched. So, I'm sorely tempted to
think that it may be an intergeneric (bigeneric) hybrid and my gut
instincts push me in the direction of the Pyramidal orchid (Anacamptis
pyramidalis) as the pollen parent onto D. fuchsii. Such a pairing
might explain the more erect dorsal sepal, the deeply cleft, near
evenly sized lobes on the lip, the relative absence of markings and
the rather untidy sub lateral lobes at the mouth to the spur.

I've done a picture comparison with typical D. fuchsii and A.
pyramidalis so you can see where I'm aiming:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...g?t=1247296343