"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

In my childhood, every ragwort seemed to be crawling with handsome
stripey cinnabar caterpillars and later we saw clouds of moths.
but I hadn't seen any caterpillars for years . Last week, weeding the
drive, I found a very stunted ragwort with two tiny
cinnabar caterpillars on it. A couple of days later, no more had
appeared, and the two had almost exhausted their larder so I moved them
to a full-grown ragwort plant
where they are gobbling and growing fast. I walked up the lane
inspecting every ragwort I could find, not one caterpillar. Dunno why;
there's no chemical spraying here.

What luck to have them in my garden !

Janet

In message , Janet Baraclough
writes

"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

In my childhood, every ragwort seemed to be crawling with handsome
stripey cinnabar caterpillars and later we saw clouds of moths.
but I hadn't seen any caterpillars for years . Last week, weeding the
drive, I found a very stunted ragwort with two tiny
cinnabar caterpillars on it. A couple of days later, no more had
appeared, and the two had almost exhausted their larder so I moved them
to a full-grown ragwort plant
where they are gobbling and growing fast. I walked up the lane
inspecting every ragwort I could find, not one caterpillar. Dunno why;
there's no chemical spraying here.

What luck to have them in my garden !

Janet


I haven't noticed any caterpillars this year, but that adults are in
plague proportions in some localities - last Friday I photographed a
sprawling tufted vetch covered in score of them.

But there were plenty of mullein moth caterpillars on a great mullein in
my allotment.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I haven't noticed any caterpillars this year, but that adults are in
plague proportions in some localities - last Friday I photographed a
sprawling tufted vetch covered in score of them.

Are you sure these are Cinnabars? I could be wrong, but I think the
highly similar Burnet Moth feeds on vetch.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...

"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

In my childhood, every ragwort seemed to be crawling with handsome
stripey cinnabar caterpillars and later we saw clouds of moths.
but I hadn't seen any caterpillars for years . Last week, weeding the
drive, I found a very stunted ragwort with two tiny
cinnabar caterpillars on it. A couple of days later, no more had
appeared, and the two had almost exhausted their larder so I moved them
to a full-grown ragwort plant
where they are gobbling and growing fast. I walked up the lane
inspecting every ragwort I could find, not one caterpillar. Dunno why;
there's no chemical spraying here.

What luck to have them in my garden !

Over the last couple of weeks we have had a lot of a species of moth in our
garden that I haven't seen for a long time: Scarlet Tiger moths
(Callimorpha dominula). They seem to be everywhere. I looked up their food
plant, which is, among other things, comfrey, which we do grow. But I don't
know why there are so many, I'm just very pleased to see them.

mrscake

In message
,
EastneyEnder writes
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
I haven't noticed any caterpillars this year, but that adults are in
plague proportions in some localities - last Friday I photographed a
sprawling tufted vetch covered in score of them.

Are you sure these are Cinnabars? I could be wrong, but I think the
highly similar Burnet Moth feeds on vetch.

I suspect that you're right. (Three species of Zygaena have epithets
referring to vetchs, birds foot trefoils and clovers, respectively -
tho' this need not be a reliable guide to food plant.)
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

There are two kinds of ragwort, and one is not a desirable or native plant. That is the Oxford ragwort, which escaped from the Botanic Garden and was drawn along the railway lines and now infest badly kept pasture and rough ground. It is a notifiable agricultural weed, and failure to remove it can result in a fine or [in the case of farmers] refusal of payment for set-aside.

I have seen no caterpillars on moths round here for years, nor any moths.

Since cinnabar presumably feeds on other foods than ragwort, it is the other plant that we should be encouraging.

Perhaps there is a pest eating the caterpillars?

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...

"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

Ragwort is now classed as a noxious weed and there are legal consequences if
you don't pull it up. It causes liver damage to horse and apparently to
children if they handle it.

In my childhood, every ragwort seemed to be crawling with handsome
stripey cinnabar caterpillars and later we saw clouds of moths.
but I hadn't seen any caterpillars for years . Last week, weeding the
drive, I found a very stunted ragwort with two tiny
cinnabar caterpillars on it. A couple of days later, no more had
appeared, and the two had almost exhausted their larder so I moved them
to a full-grown ragwort plant
where they are gobbling and growing fast. I walked up the lane
inspecting every ragwort I could find, not one caterpillar. Dunno why;
there's no chemical spraying here.

What luck to have them in my garden !

Don't tell the weed police!

Cinnabar caterpillars do prefer ragwort but can also feed on grasses.

Tina

Christina Websell writes

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...

"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

Ragwort is now classed as a noxious weed and there are legal consequences if
you don't pull it up.

I think the attributions have got mixed and I'm not sure who wrote this.
Could whoever did please provide a reference to the legislation that
classifies ragwort as a noxious weed and describes the legal
consequences of not pulling it up?

I am not aware of it being covered by legislation other than the 1959
Weeds Act (which I described in the snipped portion of my post) and the
Ragwort Control Act 2003 which provide for a Code of Practice to prevent
the spread of ragwort.

The code of Practice can be found at

http://www.defra.gov.uk/FARM/wildlif...op_ragwort.pdf

and I quote: "This code does not seek to eradicate ragwort. Ragwort, as
a native plant, is very important for wildlife in the UK. It supports a
wide variety of invertebrates and is a major nectar source for many
insects. In many situations, ragwort poses no threat to horses and other
livestock. It is natural component of many types of unimproved grassland
and is used by some invertebrate species that have conservation needs.
However it is necessary to prevent its spread where this presents a high
risk of poisoning horses or livestock or spreading to fields used for
the production of forage. A control policy should be put into place were
a high and medium risk is identified"

This is a long way from it being "notifiable to the local authority" as
was stated in the post I originally replied to, or there being "legal
consequences if you don't pull it up." - this would apply only if you
failed to control it in a medium or high risk situation.

Finally, all this legislation applies only to Senecio jacobaea (Common
ragwort) and not to the various other species of ragwort, marsh, hoary
etc.


Cinnabar caterpillars do prefer ragwort but can also feed on grasses.


Can you provide a reference for this? I know it can feed on groundsel
and other species of Senecio, but I have never seen reference for it
feeding on grasses.

--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell writes

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
.. .

"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwort is a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

Ragwort is now classed as a noxious weed and there are legal consequences
if
you don't pull it up.

I think the attributions have got mixed and I'm not sure who wrote this.
Could whoever did please provide a reference to the legislation that
classifies ragwort as a noxious weed and describes the legal consequences
of not pulling it up?

I am not aware of it being covered by legislation other than the 1959
Weeds Act (which I described in the snipped portion of my post) and the
Ragwort Control Act 2003 which provide for a Code of Practice to prevent
the spread of ragwort.

The code of Practice can be found at

http://www.defra.gov.uk/FARM/wildlif...op_ragwort.pdf

and I quote: "This code does not seek to eradicate ragwort. Ragwort, as a
native plant, is very important for wildlife in the UK. It supports a wide
variety of invertebrates and is a major nectar source for many insects. In
many situations, ragwort poses no threat to horses and other livestock. It
is natural component of many types of unimproved grassland and is used by
some invertebrate species that have conservation needs. However it is
necessary to prevent its spread where this presents a high risk of
poisoning horses or livestock or spreading to fields used for the
production of forage. A control policy should be put into place were a
high and medium risk is identified"

This is a long way from it being "notifiable to the local authority" as
was stated in the post I originally replied to, or there being "legal
consequences if you don't pull it up." - this would apply only if you
failed to control it in a medium or high risk situation.

Finally, all this legislation applies only to Senecio jacobaea (Common
ragwort) and not to the various other species of ragwort, marsh, hoary
etc.


Cinnabar caterpillars do prefer ragwort but can also feed on grasses.


Can you provide a reference for this? I know it can feed on groundsel and
other species of Senecio, but I have never seen reference for it feeding
on grasses.


This subject was done to death on another group and I was told on good
authority at the time that the cinnabar caterpillar can feed on several
species of grass. I didn't keep the link, I didn't think I would need it
again.

Christina Websell writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell writes

Cinnabar caterpillars do prefer ragwort but can also feed on grasses.


Can you provide a reference for this? I know it can feed on groundsel and
other species of Senecio, but I have never seen reference for it feeding
on grasses.


This subject was done to death on another group and I was told on good
authority at the time that the cinnabar caterpillar can feed on several
species of grass. I didn't keep the link, I didn't think I would need it
again.

The Collins guide to Caterpillars of Britain and Europe only mentions
the various species of Senecio as foodplants. Googling hasn't given me
any reference to cinnabar feeding on grass.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k5780484n7r20q66/
A research paper from Monks Wood defoliation of ragwort followed by
starvation - which isn't something you'd expect if they could also feed
on grass.

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk/moths%20p2.html
says much the same and also offers the interesting snippet that the
toxins in ragwort and groundsel remain in the caterpillar and in the
moth, making them "the most poisonous moths in Britain"

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=v...pg=PA307&dq=%2
2cinnabar+moth%22+caterpillar+grass&source=bl&ots= zkszdDOyLu&sig=EocDF9qR
Lna23zIkG2F3r5M9QcQ&hl=en&ei=7JdfSuyWAuagjAf5henfD Q&sa=X&oi=book_result&c
t=result&resnum=1
is a publication of of a Royal Entom Soc symposium, and describes how
later instars of the larvae migrate to new (ragwort) foodplants - I
wonder if someone has misinterpreted larvae migrating through grass as
larvae eating grass?

I was surprised by the comment that they could also feed on grass since
caterpillars usually are restricted to a few closely related plants -
and ragwort isn't anywhere near being a close relative of the grasses.



--
Kay

http://www.bhs.org.uk/_Attachments/Resources/289_S4.pdf

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/consumptio.../ncc043958.pdf

On Jul 16, 6:30*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message

...



"K" wrote in message
...

Ragwortis a native UK plant which is a primary food plant for the
cinnabar moth, listed on the UK Biodiversity Action Plan as rapidly
declining.

Ragwortis now classed as a noxious weed and there are legal consequences if
you don't pull it up. *It causes liver damage to horse and apparently to
children if they handle it.


This is an urban myth. Please do not spread this story. It is most
emphatically does NOT cause liver damage when handled.

See http://www.ragwortfacts.com/ragwort-humans.html for a technical
explanation
and
http://www.ragwortfacts.com/ragwort-...ng-humans.html for a
simpler one which illustrates why you should not spread this urban
myth.


Also see

http://www.ragwort.org/ragwort-law.html


* * In my childhood, everyragwortseemed to be crawling with handsome
stripey *cinnabar caterpillars and later we saw clouds of moths.
but I hadn't seen any caterpillars for years . Last week, weeding the
drive, I found a very stuntedragwortwith two tiny
cinnabar caterpillars on it. A couple of days later, no more had
appeared, and the two had almost exhausted their larder so I moved them
to a full-grownragwortplant
where they are gobbling and growing fast. I walked up the lane
inspecting everyragwortI could find, not one caterpillar. Dunno why;
there's no chemical spraying *here.

What luck to have them in my garden !

Don't tell the weed police!

Cinnabar caterpillars do preferragwortbut can also feed on grasses.

Tina

This link gives chapter and verse on the law. In short there is no
automatic legal requirement to control it.

http://www.ragwortfacts.com/ragwort-law.html

Cinnabar moth caterpillars DO NOT EAT GRASS.

Ragwort is poisonous to animals but research in the UK and
internationally shows that poisoning is very rare.

There is however an overreaction to this which leads to a lot of urban
myths several of which have been repeated in this thread.
Another good site to read on this is http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com
which is the English language version of a Dutch horse owner's website
written in conjunction with a number of international experts.
The owner of the website was a member of a ragwort extermination group
until she asked for expert advice . She then discovered that the
overreaction which had spread from the UK was just that and wrote the
website to debunk the myths.

There is an interesting page on the panic and the value of the plant
to nature here.
http://www.buglife.org.uk/conservati...jects/ragwort/

Someone will always find a justification for allowing noxious plants to grow. Ragwort's dangers are far from urban myths. I would be very reluctant to handle it in quantity, anay more than I would like to handle artemisia in quantity.

This site is more interesting in that the person has direct and personal concern with the plant, its use and its dangers: http://www.wildyorkshire.co.uk/natur...0/ragwort.html

In fact, if you want cinnabar moths, he is the person to contact.

Whilst I find both the plant and moth interesting, there is a place for this.
Having just recently become aware of the "ragwort" and all it encompasses, I feel loathe to remove it. However, as I have discovered it on local common land where horses are ridden, I feel it is my duty to help protect these unwary travellers (and dogs) and have reported it to the local council.
Much is the pity to remove the food source of the Cinnabar, but needs are must.

Stuee you're just another one of the interfering health and safety nazis who are dragging this country down into the depths of stupid huggy fluffery and keeping people in non jobs that are costing the rest of us a fortune.