"Peter James" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

"Peter James" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

"Peter James" wrote in message
news:1knxma6.15o8r9s1t7kx2cN%pfjames2000@googlemai l.com...
Christina Websell wrote:

snipped
Yes, they can if ragwort is not available. And ragwort IS a weed
that
you
are obliged to pull up unless the law has changed recently.
As much as I like cinnabar moths I don't like ragwort spreading to
pastures
where it might be including in hay. Horses and ponies will not eat
it
when
it's growing but they wiill if it's dried in hay.
With regard to ragwort, a lot of nonsense is uttered about it. With
regard to the law, then see

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pet...weeds-act-1959
/
and I quote from the Act above,

"The Weeds Act specifies five injurious weeds: Common Ragwort, Spear
Thistle, Creeping or Field Thistle, Broad Leaved Dock and Curled
Dock.
Under the Weeds Act 1959 the Secretary of State may serve an
enforcement
notice on the occupier of land on which injurious weeds are growing,
requiring the occupier to take action to prevent their spread.
Enforcement of the Weeds Act is carried out by Natural England on
Defra's behalf - see 'Enforcement of the Weeds Act' below."

Do you notice the words "The Secretary of State MAY serve etc ". I
emphasis the "May". As far as I am aware with regard to the weeds
specified in the act, he never has taken such action irrespective of
the
rubbish spouted by the BHS amongst others.

And qutoing from another source, I understand that DEFRA are unable
to
provide figures for farm animals and horses killed by ragwort up to
2011
due to no deaths being reported to them.


I know that my friend had her pony killed by ragwort,she probably
didn't
report it. He was so ill from it that she had to have him shot in
front
of
her. Imagine that.
I should have commented to the affect that if the Vet was convinced of
his/her diagnosis it was his/her duty to report the death to DEFRA not
the owner.
I'm sorry but I am reluctant to accept this diagnosis for reasons
stated
in my other post.
Peter


Ragwort can kill horses and ponies if it is allowed to be dried in hay.
Here's a list of poisonous plants some of which are common in the U.K.
Amongst them such normal items of diet as red kidney beans and llma
beans.
I don't hear any great demand for these plants to be be banned on the
grounds they can poison human beings. But horses now, there's a
different canof worms.
You are spouting the old well worn doctrine of the British Horse Society
which has been discredited for many years now.

Of course ragwort can kill horse and ponies and cows and lambs and
others. But sensible owners make sure their pastures are free of it,
and are careful to buy in straw and hay from only reputable sources. In
any case, fresh standing ragwort will not be taken by horse or farm
animals, as it is far too bitter to ingest. Only when dried is it
dangerous. So buy hay from a good merchant, not the cheapest.

Any stock owner who suffers animal deaths from ragwort has only
themselves to blame.

Peter

Yeah, I buy some bales of hay from a farmer and there is dried ragwort in
it, and it kills my horses. How is that my fault exactly?

Christina Websell wrote:

snipped
Ragwort can kill horses and ponies if it is allowed to be dried in hay.
Here's a list of poisonous plants some of which are common in the U.K.
Amongst them such normal items of diet as red kidney beans and llma
beans.
I don't hear any great demand for these plants to be be banned on the
grounds they can poison human beings. But horses now, there's a
different canof worms.
You are spouting the old well worn doctrine of the British Horse Society
which has been discredited for many years now.

Of course ragwort can kill horse and ponies and cows and lambs and
others. But sensible owners make sure their pastures are free of it,
and are careful to buy in straw and hay from only reputable sources. In
any case, fresh standing ragwort will not be taken by horse or farm
animals, as it is far too bitter to ingest. Only when dried is it
dangerous. So buy hay from a good merchant, not the cheapest.

Any stock owner who suffers animal deaths from ragwort has only
themselves to blame.

Peter

Yeah, I buy some bales of hay from a farmer and there is dried ragwort in
it, and it kills my horses. How is that my fault exactly?
You know that no farmer worthy of the name would allow ragwort to grow
in his pastures or hay fields. Every livestock farmer I've ever known,
and I spent a working lifetime selling farm machinery in the West
Country, walked his pastures regularly and inspected them for ragwort
and other injurious plants. Those that didn't were known to be scruffy
useless layabouts who were forced into selling their hay for cash flow
reasons, and were just the types not to bother inspecting their
pastures. You buy hay from them, then that's down to you. Buy from a
well known hay and straw Merchant and the chances are that he knows
where the hay originated and you do have some sort of comeback.

But I repeat, and repeat again, the numbers of animal farm deaths
reported to DEFRA caused by ragwort poisoning up to 2011 were ZERO.
In spite of the nonsense trumpeted by the British Horse Society the
horses killed by ragwort up to 2011 were also ZERO.

Peter


--
It is necessary for the good man to do nothing for evil to triumph.

Attributed to Edmund Burke 1729 - 1797

If you do have it, you can manage it but hardly eradicate it. Ragwort is everywhere around where I live. There is scrubland utterly covered in it - the council has insisted the owners regularly mow it, but what else can they do? It is a lawn weed in everyone's garden hereabouts. It grows on the grass verges. And you can't eradicate it from your lawn - I pull up every plant I see - because seeds blow in. The field behind my garden is a hayfield owned by a family who have horses. They mow it and put the hay into haybales. I don't know if they give it to their horses. It has some amount of ragwort in it, but what can they do? You can't walk around a field of several acres pulling up every ragwort plant before mowing it. Very close by are several fields that horses graze on, they apparently manage.

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 00:14:28 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Peter James" wrote in message
.. .

Any stock owner who suffers animal deaths from ragwort has only
themselves to blame.

Yeah, I buy some bales of hay from a farmer and there is dried ragwort in
it, and it kills my horses. How is that my fault exactly?

I'm amazed you ask that! It is surely the responsibility of the horse
owner to ensure that the hay they buy for their horses is of good
quality, especially if the hazards of ragwort in the hay are as well
publicised as they seem to be, regardless of the truth of the matter.
Caveat emptor!

It's pretty difficult to detect ragwort in hay, you'd have to inspect
every piece fed to the horses *and* know exactly what you're looking
for.

I'm "on the fence"Â*in this discussion, I am a horse owner and our
fields (when we bought the house)Â*had a lot of ragwort on them which
we have managed to eliminate almost completely over the years.

However I do feel that the BHSÂ*(in particular) are too sensationalist
about the risks of ragwort poisoning.

--
Chris Green