Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

--
Kay

On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

I *always* add a bay leaf to bread sauce.
--
Sacha

On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

Sorry, should also have said that I make it with milk seethed around an
onion studded with cloves, salt and pepper added. Take out the onion
and the bay leaves, add a bit of single cream to the finished product.
Bingo. Or even voilà. ;-)
--
Sacha

Janet Baraclough writes
The message
from K contains these words:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Peppercorns and a few bay leave; plus a raw halved onion, studded
with cloves; , infused in warm milk
Then strain them off reheat the milk and add the breadcrumbs, cream
and butter.

I've never put bayleaves in rice pud (yet).

It's nice. Makes a change from nutmeg.

I'll make a note to try bay leaves in the bread sauce next year.
--
Kay

Check round the base of your bush - if there are suckers, pull them off and plant up.

Bay leaves tend not to have the bright, glossy shine of portuguese laurel or cherry laurel, and the leaves are also broader.

"K" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts writes

"K" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts writes
snip

How do I tell which type of bay it is?

If it's an edible bay tree, it will smell like bay, and have leaves that
are about 8cm long and 3-4cm wide.

If it's a cherry laurel, it'll have leaves that are nearer 15 cm long,
7cm wide, thicker and glossier.

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.
snip

Plants in tubs - leaf 70mm long and 30mm wide. No obvious smell of bay. A
bit undernourished, though.

If it is bay, it should smell of bay if you crush a leaf

Tree/shrub in back garden leaf 110mm long and 33mm wide. Very sweet bay
smell. This is the one I want to propogate.

The leaf seems a bit large for bay.

It looks as though they are both edible bay (I hope).

Just taken a leaf of another potted bay (same parent tree, different
seedling) and this is 110mm * 45mm.
These are definitely fragrant leaves, and the two sets of leaves have a
different (though similar) fragrance.
There doesn't seem to be much information about varieties of bay - just
major classifications.
I am sure there must be many subtle differences between individual plants,
especially as propogation is often from seed.
Whatever, I especially like the fragrance from the one in my new(ish) garden
so will try to propagate from it.
If anyone is interested I am happy to send sample leaves from diferent bay
tree/shrubs for a second oppinion.

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...
We have a laurel/bay bush in our back garden (which is actually a tree
which has been cut down to a stump and then regrown as a bush).

I have some other bushes in tubs but they have a different scent and I
particularly like the one in our back garden.

However it may have to go because it is really in the wrong place for our
redesigned rear area.
Obviously being a truncated tree it cannot be lifted and moved.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_bay_laurel.htm makes it sound quite
difficult to propagate (however as they can't even get their
Farenheit/Centigrade conversions right I don't know how much to trust
them).

Of the three options, I don't see any seeds and layering may take too
long (although air layering is not mentioned, which might be an option)
so cuttings seems to be the best bet.

Has anyone had success taking cuttings from bay?

How do I tell which type of bay it is?
The web site above describes it as a bush but the trunk was pretty big
and the bay trees around this area seem to be just that - trees.
My other bays have grown from seedlings lifted from a friend's garden and
his bay tree is huge.


I have propagated a bay from cuttings. Initially, the potted cuttings
seemed to take quite easily, but most died off in the first year. The sole
survivor stayed stunted for the next five or so years, but then took off
like a rocket, for some unknown reason.

'True' bay trees can grow very big - there's one in the gardens at
Portmeirion that must be over sixty feet tall.

I've never had success with bay cuttings, mine all died. I was given a
self-sown seedling about 3" high a couple of years ago, in quite a big pot.
It did not do anything the first year, just sat and sulked but it shot away
this year to about 2 ft tall.

Tina

"Dave Hill" wrote in message
...
On 27 Dec, 18:50, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
"Dave Hill" wrote in message

...

On 27 Dec, 17:49, K wrote:
David WE Roberts writes
snip

I wouldn't wory about propagating it, you now quite often see pots of
Bay with several plants to a pot in the "Sheds" as well as stores like
Lidl and Aldi, they are cheap much easier than trying to propagate..
David Hill

Problem is they may not be the same variety as the one in my back garden.

I already have other bay shrubs (as stated earlier) but they are not the
same.

It is this specific variety that I want to preserve.

Well that's put me in my place.
David Hill


LOL, sorry, David! Maybe David R could lead us to an online photo so we
know what sort of bay he's after keeping.

Tina

David WE Roberts;872822 Wrote:

Tree/shrub in back garden leaf 110mm long and 33mm wide. Very sweet bay

smell. This is the one I want to propogate.

It looks as though they are both edible bay (I hope).

I've been worrying about your bay as the leaves seem very big. So I went
and picked the largest leaf I could find off mine at the bottom of the
garden - like yours, a tree cut down to a bush. That leaf is 155mm x
65mm, so yours is certainly within range!

I wonder whether it's the combination of tree-sized roots and bush-sized
top growth which leads to such large leaves. The ones on the tree by the
house are certainly a lot smaller.
--
Kay

In article ,
K wrote:

I've been worrying about your bay as the leaves seem very big. So I went
and picked the largest leaf I could find off mine at the bottom of the
garden - like yours, a tree cut down to a bush. That leaf is 155mm x
65mm, so yours is certainly within range!

Mine vary between years. The problem is that there is a massive
overlap between the ranges of size for Laurus nobilis and Prunus
lusitanica, as well as in glossiness. Apparently, some varieties
of P. laurocerasus have the same shape, though the very common
one has much larger, lighter and more rounded leaves. There are
a great many other bushes with similar leaves and growth habit, but
I can't identify any that are commonly grown in the UK.

I am afraid that, for the average amateur, only leaf scent, flower
and fruit are much use for identification. Bean implies that the
Prunus don't have leaf-stalks, which might help, but L. nobilis
stalks very between negligible and an inch or two - and I don't
have a P. lusitanica to check that the leaves are stalkless.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

writes
In article ,
K wrote:

I've been worrying about your bay as the leaves seem very big. So I went
and picked the largest leaf I could find off mine at the bottom of the
garden - like yours, a tree cut down to a bush. That leaf is 155mm x
65mm, so yours is certainly within range!

Mine vary between years. The problem is that there is a massive
overlap between the ranges of size for Laurus nobilis and Prunus
lusitanica, as well as in glossiness. Apparently, some varieties
of P. laurocerasus have the same shape, though the very common
one has much larger, lighter and more rounded leaves. There are
a great many other bushes with similar leaves and growth habit, but
I can't identify any that are commonly grown in the UK.

I am afraid that, for the average amateur, only leaf scent, flower
and fruit are much use for identification. Bean implies that the
Prunus don't have leaf-stalks, which might help, but L. nobilis
stalks very between negligible and an inch or two - and I don't
have a P. lusitanica to check that the leaves are stalkless.

My cherry laurel (P laurocerasus) has leaf tips which are recurved,
whereas the bay (Laurus nobilis) ones are not ... but otherwise,
although they're visibly different, and I would be able to distinguish
the two, when it comes to saying how I do it, it is all in terms of
comparison. Cherry laurel is fleshier, and shiner, and yellower green.
So unless the person you're talking to has one of each in his hand, it's
hard to explain the difference. Which brings us back to the smell as
being the best determinant.
--
Kay

wrote in message
...
In article ,
K wrote:
David WE Roberts writes

How do I tell which type of bay it is?

If it's an edible bay tree, it will smell like bay, and have leaves that
are about 8cm long and 3-4cm wide.

If it's a cherry laurel, it'll have leaves that are nearer 15 cm long,
7cm wide, thicker and glossier.

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.

The leaves are very hard to tell from true bay, unless you have both
together or can remember which has which subtle feature. Most people
can tell the difference only by scent, or when the plant has flowers
or fruit.


Isn't it characteristic that the edges of edible bay leaves are corrugated
or wrinkled?

Graham



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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In article , graham wrote:

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.

The leaves are very hard to tell from true bay, unless you have both
together or can remember which has which subtle feature. Most people
can tell the difference only by scent, or when the plant has flowers
or fruit.

Isn't it characteristic that the edges of edible bay leaves are corrugated
or wrinkled?

No :-( They often are, slightly, but often aren't.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

graham writes

wrote in message
...
In article ,
K wrote:
David WE Roberts writes

How do I tell which type of bay it is?

If it's an edible bay tree, it will smell like bay, and have leaves that
are about 8cm long and 3-4cm wide.

If it's a cherry laurel, it'll have leaves that are nearer 15 cm long,
7cm wide, thicker and glossier.

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.

The leaves are very hard to tell from true bay, unless you have both
together or can remember which has which subtle feature. Most people
can tell the difference only by scent, or when the plant has flowers
or fruit.


Isn't it characteristic that the edges of edible bay leaves are corrugated
or wrinkled?

They are, but only very gently so. For example, the 18cm length of the
leaf I'm looking at has only 8 undulations, with an amplitude of 2-3mm -
not what I'd immediately pick up as 'corrugations' or 'wrinkles'. It's
another of those characteristics that helps only if you're already
familiar with the plant.
--
Kay

In article ,
K wrote:

My cherry laurel (P laurocerasus) has leaf tips which are recurved,
whereas the bay (Laurus nobilis) ones are not ... but otherwise,
although they're visibly different, and I would be able to distinguish
the two, when it comes to saying how I do it, it is all in terms of
comparison. Cherry laurel is fleshier, and shiner, and yellower green.
So unless the person you're talking to has one of each in his hand, it's
hard to explain the difference. Which brings us back to the smell as
being the best determinant.

I am rarely caught out by P. laurocerasus, but I am regularly by
P. lusitanica and probably by other plants. Here are some images
from the Web that may increase people's confusion :-)

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/file...-nobilis-1.jpg
http://thymeafterthyme.com/images/Laurus_nobilis.jpg
http://www.dempseys.org.uk/creteflor...eet%20bay).jpg
http://www.biologie.uni-regensburg.d...lusitanica.jpg
http://www.aphotoflora.com/DevonandC...ca15-02-05.jpg
http://www.findmeplants.co.uk/photos...urocerasus.jpg


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.