"K" wrote in message
...
writes
In article ,
K wrote:

I've been worrying about your bay as the leaves seem very big.
snip

Sweet of you to worry - what are the dangers of using the 'wrong' leaf? :-)

My cherry laurel (P laurocerasus) has leaf tips which are recurved,
whereas the bay (Laurus nobilis) ones are not ...
snip

When you say 'recurved' what exactly do you mean?
The tips of the leaves curve downwards (more markedly in the one I want to
propagate) but in the pictures posted by Nic both Laurus Nobilis and Prunus
Lusitanica show some leaf tips curving down.
From the pictures my specimens could be from either.

The leaves do have a 'bay tree' smell, however.

Do the leaves of Prunus Lusitanica smell similar to bay?

Cheers

Dave R

wrote in message
...
In article ,
K wrote:

My cherry laurel (P laurocerasus) has leaf tips which are recurved,
whereas the bay (Laurus nobilis) ones are not ... but otherwise,
although they're visibly different, and I would be able to distinguish
the two, when it comes to saying how I do it, it is all in terms of
comparison. Cherry laurel is fleshier, and shiner, and yellower green.
So unless the person you're talking to has one of each in his hand, it's
hard to explain the difference. Which brings us back to the smell as
being the best determinant.

I am rarely caught out by P. laurocerasus, but I am regularly by
P. lusitanica and probably by other plants. Here are some images
from the Web that may increase people's confusion :-)

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/file...-nobilis-1.jpg
http://thymeafterthyme.com/images/Laurus_nobilis.jpg
http://www.dempseys.org.uk/creteflor...eet%20bay).jpg
http://www.biologie.uni-regensburg.d...lusitanica.jpg
http://www.aphotoflora.com/DevonandC...ca15-02-05.jpg
http://www.findmeplants.co.uk/photos...urocerasus.jpg

Go Nick!
You certainly increased my confusion :-)

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:

From the pictures my specimens could be from either.

Precisely. I can't tell even when I see the plant, though I can
with P. laurocerasus.

The leaves do have a 'bay tree' smell, however.

Do the leaves of Prunus Lusitanica smell similar to bay?

No. That's the key.

When in warmer climates, there are plants with bay-like leaves that
have quite strong scents, not too dissimilar to bay. As far as I
know, none are commonly grown in the UK, and few are fully hardy.
I can't remember the names of any of them offhand, where I ever
knew them, but have bumped into them when walking in such places.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

David WE Roberts writes

"K" wrote in message
...
writes
In article ,
K wrote:

I've been worrying about your bay as the leaves seem very big.
snip

Sweet of you to worry - what are the dangers of using the 'wrong' leaf? :-)

Laurel is poisonous. In the old days of butterfly collecting, you'd kill
your specimens by putting them into a jam jar with a few crushed laurel
leaves. I don't know how poisonous they are to humans, but I certainly
wouldn't advise putting one in your bread sauce.

My cherry laurel (P laurocerasus) has leaf tips which are recurved,
whereas the bay (Laurus nobilis) ones are not ...
snip

When you say 'recurved' what exactly do you mean?

The tips turn down quite definitely and sometimes bend a bit backward.

The tips of the leaves curve downwards (more markedly in the one I want
to propagate) but in the pictures posted by Nic both Laurus Nobilis and
Prunus Lusitanica show some leaf tips curving down.
From the pictures my specimens could be from either.

The 3 bay pictures Nick pointed to you are very obviously bay. P
laurocerasus is distinctly different - if you know it, you won't get it
muddled with bay. One of the lusitanica pictures shows lusitanica as
having a serrated edge - I don't know how definitive that is.

The leaves do have a 'bay tree' smell, however.

That is promising.

Do the leaves of Prunus Lusitanica smell similar to bay?

Pass. But I don't think so.
--
Kay

wrote in message
...
In article , graham
wrote:

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.

The leaves are very hard to tell from true bay, unless you have both
together or can remember which has which subtle feature. Most people
can tell the difference only by scent, or when the plant has flowers
or fruit.

Isn't it characteristic that the edges of edible bay leaves are corrugated
or wrinkled?

No :-( They often are, slightly, but often aren't.

Pity! As it happens mine are. But then it is a small, pot-bound shrub in
my kitchen.
Graham



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"K" wrote in message
...
graham writes

wrote in message
...
In article ,
K wrote:
David WE Roberts writes

How do I tell which type of bay it is?

If it's an edible bay tree, it will smell like bay, and have leaves that
are about 8cm long and 3-4cm wide.

If it's a cherry laurel, it'll have leaves that are nearer 15 cm long,
7cm wide, thicker and glossier.

Portuguese laurel I have no experience with.

The leaves are very hard to tell from true bay, unless you have both
together or can remember which has which subtle feature. Most people
can tell the difference only by scent, or when the plant has flowers
or fruit.


Isn't it characteristic that the edges of edible bay leaves are corrugated
or wrinkled?

They are, but only very gently so. For example, the 18cm length of the
leaf I'm looking at has only 8 undulations, with an amplitude of 2-3mm -
not what I'd immediately pick up as 'corrugations' or 'wrinkles'. It's
another of those characteristics that helps only if you're already
familiar with the plant.
--
I used this character to convince myself that I had real Bay and not
California laurel/Oregon myrtle (Umbellularia californica). It hasn't
flowered and that would be the ideal way to confirm it.
Nevertheless, it certainly flavoured the bread sauce beautifully the other
day.
Graham



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"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

I *always* add a bay leaf to bread sauce.
--
So do I! I've introduced bread sauce (I was going to use the initials but
thought better of it) to several Canadians who love it!
Graham



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On 2009-12-28 21:41:28 +0000, "graham" said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

I *always* add a bay leaf to bread sauce.
--
So do I! I've introduced bread sauce (I was going to use the initials but
thought better of it) to several Canadians who love it!
Graham

I add one to a beef casserole, too - it just adds a certain something.
--
Sacha

Sacha writes

I add one to a beef casserole, too - it just adds a certain something.

Good with any rich casserole - venison, game, anything where you've
added spicy sausage or black pudding. It's a very common ingredient of
northern portuguese cooking.
--
Kay

On 2009-12-28 23:03:05 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes

I add one to a beef casserole, too - it just adds a certain something.

Good with any rich casserole - venison, game, anything where you've
added spicy sausage or black pudding. It's a very common ingredient of
northern portuguese cooking.

I enjoy the scent of it cooking, too.
--
Sacha

In article ,
K wrote:

The 3 bay pictures Nick pointed to you are very obviously bay. P
laurocerasus is distinctly different - if you know it, you won't get it
muddled with bay. One of the lusitanica pictures shows lusitanica as
having a serrated edge - I don't know how definitive that is.

In my experience, it usually has, but I have come across a fair
number of plants without a serrated edge and without a bay scent,
which I have put down to being P. lusitanica. I don't guarantee
that I was right!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-28 21:41:28 +0000, "graham" said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

I *always* add a bay leaf to bread sauce.
--
So do I! I've introduced bread sauce (I was going to use the initials
but
thought better of it) to several Canadians who love it!
Graham

I add one to a beef casserole, too - it just adds a certain something.

a certain... je nes se quoi...?

IACBTP g

--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

David WE Roberts wrote:
We have a laurel/bay bush in our back garden (which is actually a tree
which has been cut down to a stump and then regrown as a bush).

I have some other bushes in tubs but they have a different scent and I
particularly like the one in our back garden.

However it may have to go because it is really in the wrong place for
our redesigned rear area.
Obviously being a truncated tree it cannot be lifted and moved.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_bay_laurel.htm makes it sound quite
difficult to propagate (however as they can't even get their
Farenheit/Centigrade conversions right I don't know how much to trust
them).

Of the three options, I don't see any seeds and layering may take too
long (although air layering is not mentioned, which might be an option)
so cuttings seems to be the best bet.

Has anyone had success taking cuttings from bay?

How do I tell which type of bay it is?
The web site above describes it as a bush but the trunk was pretty big
and the bay trees around this area seem to be just that - trees.
My other bays have grown from seedlings lifted from a friend's garden
and his bay tree is huge.

Bays sucker readily, and these can be sliced off with attached roots and
with sufficient dampness, take very readily.

I've never tried layering them or striking cuttings, but I've not heard
that they're difficult.

--
Rusty

"Rusty Hinge" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:
We have a laurel/bay bush in our back garden (which is actually a tree
which has been cut down to a stump and then regrown as a bush).

I have some other bushes in tubs but they have a different scent and I
particularly like the one in our back garden.

However it may have to go because it is really in the wrong place for our
redesigned rear area.
Obviously being a truncated tree it cannot be lifted and moved.

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_bay_laurel.htm makes it sound quite
difficult to propagate (however as they can't even get their
Farenheit/Centigrade conversions right I don't know how much to trust
them).

Of the three options, I don't see any seeds and layering may take too
long (although air layering is not mentioned, which might be an option)
so cuttings seems to be the best bet.

Has anyone had success taking cuttings from bay?

How do I tell which type of bay it is?
The web site above describes it as a bush but the trunk was pretty big
and the bay trees around this area seem to be just that - trees.
My other bays have grown from seedlings lifted from a friend's garden and
his bay tree is huge.

Bays sucker readily, and these can be sliced off with attached roots and
with sufficient dampness, take very readily.

I've never tried layering them or striking cuttings, but I've not heard
that they're difficult.

--
Rusty



We have no need to do any of that, they pop up in the garden like weeds
almost

--
Mike

The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rneba.org.uk
Luxury Self Catering on the Isle of Wight?
www.shanklinmanormews.co.uk

On 2009-12-28 23:16:31 +0000, "Ophelia" said:



"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-28 21:41:28 +0000, "graham" said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-27 20:34:56 +0000, K said:

Sacha writes
If it makes you think of bread sauce

How do you make your bread sauce? I've always made it with cloves.

Bay is for rice puddings and casseroles.

I *always* add a bay leaf to bread sauce.
--
So do I! I've introduced bread sauce (I was going to use the initials but
thought better of it) to several Canadians who love it!
Graham

I add one to a beef casserole, too - it just adds a certain something.

a certain... je nes se quoi...?

IACBTP g

-- https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

I Am Caught By The Pudding....??
--
Sacha