walking boots-- which are good?
 

SMS wrote:

You won't save that much money by not getting a shoe with a GoreTex (or
other breathable membrane) and you lose a huge amount of functionality.
Waterproof socks don't serve the same purpose. GoreTex socks are
expensive, and are thick (like wearing two pairs of regular socks)

(a) no they're not.
(b) again, Goretex isn't the only game in town. Sealskinz waterproof
socks, for example, are standard hiking soock thickness and I use them
in my unlined, remarkably useful, versatile and well travelled Scarpa
trail shoes interchangably with my usual wool/synthetic mix Bridgedales.
So since I have a "not thicker" example in my sock-drawer all your
other points about thickness disappear.

All the experts agree that the best option is to get a shoe that has a
breathable, waterproof membrane.

Manifestly not true. As expert's expert Chris Townsend has already
pointed out, unlined shoes are often preferable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 31/03/10 11:19 PM, Christopher Loffredo wrote:

snip

And, again, when my feet do get seriously wet, it's from water or snow
coming in through the top.

In the U.S. we use gaiters to prevent snow or water from coming in over
the top. Also, in areas where you'd likely be stepping into puddles or
streams it's best to get a higher boot.

You can learn about them here
"http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/gaiters.html".

walking boots-- which are good?
 

SMS wrote:
On 31/03/10 11:19 PM, Christopher Loffredo wrote:

snip

And, again, when my feet do get seriously wet, it's from water or snow
coming in through the top.

In the U.S. we use gaiters to prevent snow or water from coming in over
the top. Also, in areas where you'd likely be stepping into puddles or
streams it's best to get a higher boot.

You can learn about them here
"http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/gaiters.html".

Well, in these more backward parts of the planet, we also have gaiters.

Problem is, primitive people like myself sometimes tend to postpone
putting them on until it's a bit too late...

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 31/03/2010 23:44, SMS wrote:
On 31/03/10 3:03 PM, Geoff Berrow wrote:

Wet grass?! I wouldn't hesitate to wear non-waterproof boots in wet
grass, it's hiking in the rain, across streams, and on rough trails with
a lot of puddles that you really want boots with a GoreTex (or some
other brand) of breathable membrane.

And when the water goes over the top? Not IF but WHEN?



There's a good reason why most military infantry boots have a GoreTex
membrane,

Sorry mate the military do NOT ISSUE GORETEX BOOTS TO THE vast majority
of soldiers. I don't know where you get this from but it's NOT TRUE.

I know - I'm ex Army.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 01/04/2010 16:36, SMS wrote:


In the U.S. we use gaiters to prevent snow or water from coming in over
the top. Also, in areas where you'd likely be stepping into puddles or
streams it's best to get a higher boot.



And thus having an already waterproof boot as in dressed leather
absolutely negates any advantage in having a membrane lining!

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 09:06:41 +0100, Geoff Berrow
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:44:19 -0700, SMS
wrote:


I have had both. I prefer the Goretex lined ones. Very useful when
walking through wet grass.

Wet grass?! I wouldn't hesitate to wear non-waterproof boots in wet
grass, it's hiking in the rain, across streams, and on rough trails with
a lot of puddles that you really want boots with a GoreTex (or some
other brand) of breathable membrane.

I was talking about trail shoes. I've never had boots without a
membrane and so can't tell you if they would be better or worse. I
limit my comments to situations where I have direct experience and
respect the fact that everyone's needs are different. I commend it to
you.

I have worn and tried many different types of boots, socks,
overtrouser and gaiter combinations over the years.

The very worst option is shorts and sealskinz socks in heavy rain.
Water runs down the legs and into the socks where it cannot escape.
Toes end up like prunes.

Waterproof trousers over gaiters is probably the best option in heavy
rain, but in snow the gaiters should be worn over the waterproof
trousers where there is a risk of a self-stabbing by crampon;
hopefully the tough fabric of the gaiter will prevent damage to
expensive waterproof trousers.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 01/04/10 9:53 AM, Gordon wrote:
On 31/03/2010 23:44, SMS wrote:
On 31/03/10 3:03 PM, Geoff Berrow wrote:

Wet grass?! I wouldn't hesitate to wear non-waterproof boots in wet
grass, it's hiking in the rain, across streams, and on rough trails with
a lot of puddles that you really want boots with a GoreTex (or some
other brand) of breathable membrane.

And when the water goes over the top? Not IF but WHEN?

As I explained, in weather or conditions where this would be an issue,
the prudent thing to do is to wear gaiters.

Sorry mate the military do NOT ISSUE GORETEX BOOTS TO THE vast majority
of soldiers. I don't know where you get this from but it's NOT TRUE.

I know - I'm ex Army.

That may have been the case when you were in the Army, but these days
the combat boots for wet and cold conditions have a
waterproof/breathable membrane. It's written into the specification that
the manufacturers bid on.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 01/04/10 10:38 AM, Tom Crispin wrote:

Waterproof trousers over gaiters is probably the best option in heavy
rain, but in snow the gaiters should be worn over the waterproof
trousers where there is a risk of a self-stabbing by crampon;
hopefully the tough fabric of the gaiter will prevent damage to
expensive waterproof trousers.

For ice climbing this is the case, but for XC skiing the trousers won't
be damaged by anything. the classic knickers, with the gaiters over
them, is what used to be common for XC skiing before knickers went out
of fashion. Now with the plastic boots for back-country skiing there is
no need for waterproofing, but you still need gaiters. Some of the
higher end winter pants have integrated gaiters (along with a GoreTex
membrane of course).

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 01/04/2010 18:59, SMS wrote:


As I explained, in weather or conditions where this would be an issue,
the prudent thing to do is to wear gaiters.

Unless you have gaiters that have a water-tight seal onto the boot, it
does NOT stop water wicking up and into the boot.



Sorry mate the military do NOT ISSUE GORETEX BOOTS TO THE vast majority
of soldiers. I don't know where you get this from but it's NOT TRUE.

I know - I'm ex Army.

That may have been the case when you were in the Army, but these days
the combat boots for wet and cold conditions have a
waterproof/breathable membrane. It's written into the specification that
the manufacturers bid on.

Certainly NOT in the British army.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

Gordon wrote
SMS wrote
Geoff Berrow wrote

Wet grass?! I wouldn't hesitate to wear non-waterproof boots in wet grass, it's hiking in the rain, across streams,
and on rough trails with a lot of puddles that you really want boots with a GoreTex (or some other brand) of
breathable membrane.

And when the water goes over the top? Not IF but WHEN?

I havent had any water come in over the top in 50 years.

And I dont wear the longer boots either.

There's a good reason why most military infantry boots have a GoreTex membrane,

Sorry mate the military do NOT ISSUE GORETEX BOOTS TO THE vast
majority of soldiers. I don't know where you get this from but it's NOT TRUE.

I know - I'm ex Army.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 01/04/10 9:54 AM, Gordon wrote:
On 01/04/2010 16:36, SMS wrote:


In the U.S. we use gaiters to prevent snow or water from coming in over
the top. Also, in areas where you'd likely be stepping into puddles or
streams it's best to get a higher boot.



And thus having an already waterproof boot as in dressed leather
absolutely negates any advantage in having a membrane lining!

Yes if you're getting a full-grain leather boot and using Sno-Seal or
other wax product, then the boots are essentially waterproof without the
need for a membrane.

For better or for worse, not many people spend the money on full grain
leather hiking boots or hiking shoes. Part of it may be weight related.
The waterproof-breathable membrane, GoreTex or other, is necessary on
boots and shoes that are not sealed, full grain leather. However
remember that not everyone seals full grain leather because it affects
the breathability. That's why higher end full-grain leather hiking boots
still usually have a GoreTex membrane.

Just look at what the military specifies, as I referenced in an earlier
post. They aren't looking to save a few bucks, they want the best
product for the job. That's why you see them using a GoreTex membrane in
boots.

walking boots-- which are good?
 

SMS wrote:

For ice climbing this is the case, but for XC skiing the trousers won't
be damaged by anything

My XC skis have steel edges. Which I sharpen occasionally. They'll
carve up lightweight overtrousers easily enough.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On Apr 21, 4:54*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
SMS wrote:
For ice climbing this is the case, but for XC skiing the trousers won't
be damaged by anything

My XC skis have steel edges. *Which I sharpen occasionally. *They'll
carve up lightweight overtrousers easily enough.

Heh. I just had a flash of ninja ski warriors, trekking through the
snow in their *white* ninja gear, with spring loaded knife edges
on their skis. And flame throwing ski poles. And avalanche tiggering
secret chants. And polar bear summoning. Oooh! Maybe a good
idea for a comic book.
Socks

walking boots-- which are good?
 

On 21/04/10 1:54 AM, Peter Clinch wrote:
SMS wrote:

For ice climbing this is the case, but for XC skiing the trousers won't
be damaged by anything

My XC skis have steel edges. Which I sharpen occasionally. They'll
carve up lightweight overtrousers easily enough.

Ditto. Ditto.

What you're supposed to do is to keep the sharp steel edges against the
snow, not against your pants. I've mastered that skill, even while
telemarking. Apparently not everyone has.