bobharvey wrote:

Problem with walking boots is that, despite all the manufacturers
protestations that they know so much about feet, they don't usually
make them in different width fittings!

Can't speak for the UK, but in the U.S. the higher end hiking boots are
generally available in two or three different widths. But if you're
getting a lower end boot then you're usually out of luck--they don't
want to manufacture SKUs that sell in low volumes if the product is cheap.

Ironically, two stores I've seen a wide selection of widths for shoes
(not boots) are the Sketchers store (not the other stores that sell
Sketchers) and Wal-Mart. I thought it was rather strange that a store
like Wal-Mart would have a better choice of wide shoes than most shoe
stores.

In any case, the bottom line remains the same when buying walking
(hiking) boots. First look for the necessary design elements which a

1. GORE-TEX® lining (or other breathable waterproof membrane lining) for
breathable waterproofness (nearly all mid to high end boots have this).
NEVER buy hiking boots that lack a breathable waterproof membrane lining.

2. Vibram® outsole for best traction (cheaper boots may have a lower
grade outsole).

3. Stitchdown construction (not just glued) for durability (very rare
except on extreme high end).

4. Full-grain, all-leather upper (not split grain, not "nubuck") for
support and durability.

Once you find all the boots with the necessary design elements you begin
to narrow down your choices based on other factors like fit, aesthetics,
price, etc..

SMS wrote:

In any case, the bottom line remains the same when buying walking
(hiking) boots. First look for the necessary design elements which a

1. GORE-TEX® lining (or other breathable waterproof membrane lining) for
breathable waterproofness (nearly all mid to high end boots have this).
NEVER buy hiking boots that lack a breathable waterproof membrane lining.

sigh What was that about the constant repitition of an idea
imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
something to do with Hitler?

It seems it did...

"But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with
unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and
repeat them over and over." -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 184

You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Am Bodach in the Mamores on a sunny day :-)
pictures at http://www.therewaslight.co.uk soonish...

On 27 Feb, 20:36, Phil Cook wrote:

You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.

I'd go along with that. I've got gore-tex boots but I've been
perfectly happy with ones that didn't have it. proper leather boots
have a tradition going back, ooh, millenia.

For much of the late 90s young blokes in Europe bought second hand
east german airforce boots, which laced up to somewhere near the
chin. They wore them for work, cycling, hill walking, and (in the
case of some I knew) for job interviews. The construction was leather,
leather, with added leather. They were fantastically popular with
people who had no money, and seemed nearly indestructible and
comfortable enough to sleep in.

Phil Cook wrote

sigh What was that about the constant repitition of an idea
imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
something to do with Hitler?

Gosh, Phil. That's desperately close to Godwin's law :-D

Or was that the idea ;-)

Chris

Phil Cook wrote:

imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
something to do with Hitler?

Godwin's Law. You lose. You made a mistake and I'm man enough to admit it.

Phil Cook wrote:
You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.

You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
of time in wet conditions or in mud.

Scott Bryce wrote:

Phil Cook wrote:

You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.

You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
of time in wet conditions or in mud.

Hmm... Pretty much mandatory for the UK then.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Paul Saunders wrote:
Scott Bryce wrote:

Phil Cook wrote:

You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.
You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
of time in wet conditions or in mud.

Hmm... Pretty much mandatory for the UK then.

Plus you can't always plan when you might end up in wet conditions.

Actually a waterproof membrane is not required, you can take full grain
leather boots and seal them with Sno-Seal or other similar product. The
down side to this is that you're blocking all the pores of leather so
the leather can't breathe and you end up with sweaty, stinky feet and boots.

It's almost a non-issue these days anyway. Only the lowest end hiking
boots lack a GoreTex (or competing product) breathable waterproof
membrane. There's no real down side, the membrane is more breathable
than the leather, so even with no membrane you won't get any more air
circulation.

It's popular to bash GoreTex, especially since their early products were
not very durable or long-lasting, but the past several generations of
GoreTex don't have the problems that their early products did.

SMS wrote:

Hmm... Pretty much mandatory for the UK then.

Plus you can't always plan when you might end up in wet conditions.

And yet lots of folk hike here in boots without waterproof liners. By
informed choice.

It's almost a non-issue these days anyway. Only the lowest end hiking
boots lack a GoreTex (or competing product) breathable waterproof
membrane.

Again, do you really think Scarpa SLs and Manatas are "low end"?

There's no real down side, the membrane is more breathable
than the leather, so even with no membrane you won't get any more air
circulation.

If you back up one breathability limiting barrier with another it works
in series, not parallel. Plus not everyone is in thick leather, despite
"needing" to be.

It's popular to bash GoreTex, especially since their early products were
not very durable or long-lasting, but the past several generations of
GoreTex don't have the problems that their early products did.

But it's still sweatier inside them than if they're not there.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

SMS wrote:

In any case, the bottom line remains the same when buying walking
(hiking) boots. First look for the necessary design elements which a

.... the same as the other day. Goretex, stitchdown, full grain leather
weren't "necessary" then, and that won't change by you repeating your
particular chorus again and again while ignoring the countless users
doing Real Hiking in boots and shoes that lack one or more of those of
things you keep on saying they /must/ have.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I mentioned boots because i'm that old that when my last pair were lost
(stolen from my car) they did not even make the modern type of stylish items
so prevalent today.

Thanks to all for your responses. so many conficting opinions i'm going
straight into therapy.

i've decided to go for so called trail shoes. with no goretex. and am
interested in the idea of waterproof socks (which i wont use in the warm
weather).

somebody mentioned sketchers and there is a big sketchers shop in oxford st
with hundreds of different items. on their web site it says they do a
punisher 3 trail shoe (where somewhere else it said it was their most
popular item).

i went into the sketchers shop and the manager did not know about the
punisher 3 trail shoe. i said what other trail shoes do you have and he
asked me what a trail shoe was? (they are listed on sketchers web site)
sigh

i went over the road to john lewis and they had a small selection of trail
shoes, but nothing suited me. so i will try the punisher 3 if i can find it
or another trail shoe without goretex or waterproof membrane.

i will have to re-read all through the posts to see if there is a trail shoe
mentioned by anyone of the type i want (no goretex) and at a modest price
and that i can get in london (u.k.). Thanks to all.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:45:58 -0000, john hamilton wrote:

somebody mentioned sketchers and there is a big sketchers shop in oxford st
with hundreds of different items. on their web site it says they do a
punisher 3 trail shoe (where somewhere else it said it was their most
popular item).

i went into the sketchers shop and the manager did not know about the
punisher 3 trail shoe. i said what other trail shoes do you have and he
asked me what a trail shoe was? (they are listed on sketchers web site)
sigh

Doesn't seem to be a very good company!

If you're in Oxford, it could be worth trying
GO Outdoors Oxford
426 Abingdon Road
Oxford
OX1 4XN
0845 112 0131

or there's
Bicester
Bicester Avenue, Bicester Avenue Home and Garden Centre, Oxford Road
Bicester, Oxfordshire
OX25 2NY
Tel: 01869 321423
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

john hamilton wrote:

i went into the sketchers shop and the manager did not know about the
punisher 3 trail shoe. i said what other trail shoes do you have and he
asked me what a trail shoe was? (they are listed on sketchers web site)
sigh

If you're in the Smoke, try Ellis Brigahm's and Field and Trek (both
near Covent Garden), Snow & Rock (IIRC on High Street Ken) and
Cotswolds, amongst others.

Blacks and Millets both stock some pretty reasonable trail shoes from
Merrel and Peter Storm, check them out to see if they fit your
particular feet. They have lots of branches in lots of places.

Don't consider the above an exhaustive list!

I personally favour Scarpas as they fit /my/ feet very well. The shoes
I use (Heliums) have been out of production for a while now, but if I
were to replace them my first try would be the Scarpa Axis. Not cheap
at £75 though.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 29/03/2010 10:39, Peter Clinch wrote:


Blacks and Millets both stock some pretty reasonable trail shoes from
Merrel and Peter Storm,

There's definitely a Blacks in Oxford, at 117 St Aldates.

john hamilton wrote:

i've decided to go for so called trail shoes. with no goretex. and am
interested in the idea of waterproof socks (which i wont use in the warm
weather).

Was recently thumbing through the latest TGO (aka The Great Outdoors)
mag in Smiths and noticed there's a bumper review of Trail Shoes in
there, so that may be worth a look.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/