On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 00:47:27 -0000, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

In message , Emery Davis
writes

On the other hand, given the situation, maybe you want something
evergreen?

-E

I was going to suggest one of the wintergold pines, but Google tells me
that they're slow growing.

Hollies can make fast annual growth once their roots get established.
My neighbour has a beauty on our mutual boundary, covered in berries
atm, whose stems are making 2 ft per year.

Janet.

- thanks Janet for the suggestion...I'm ruling nothing out at the
moment.

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:42:58 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-06 17:46:14 +0000, Emery Davis said:
snip

My experience is that the Nyssas are not quick growing, but then neither
is L.s. 'Moonbeam.'

As for maples, you might consider Acer rubrum 'Armstrong', an upright
form, somewhat like a Liquidambar, but which has been shown to average
close to 70 cm growth per year. It has excellent colour in our climate.
Another good choice would be Acer buergerianum, the trident maple,
which has a naturally bushy shape (it has to be trained into a
standard), shiny green leaves and a wonderful, long lasting autumn
display. It's a pretty quick grower once established.

On the other hand, given the situation, maybe you want something
evergreen?

-E

Eucalyptus are evergreen, quick-growing and not overly spreading. They
make good screens, imo.

- funny you should mention Eucalyptus, I spotted one yesterday next
to the liquidambar. It's definitely a possible.

Are they straightforward? The soil nearby has a few camelias so I'd
want to keep it acid...don't know if that would be a problem..

On 11/07/2010 04:19 PM, Sacha wrote:
On 2010-11-07 14:02:51 +0000, bob said:

On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:42:58 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-06 17:46:14 +0000, Emery Davis said:
snip

snip
On the other hand, given the situation, maybe you want something
evergreen?

-E

Eucalyptus are evergreen, quick-growing and not overly spreading. They
make good screens, imo.

- funny you should mention Eucalyptus, I spotted one yesterday next
to the liquidambar. It's definitely a possible.

Are they straightforward? The soil nearby has a few camelias so I'd
want to keep it acid...don't know if that would be a problem..

I don't know of any problems with them in those terms at all. IMO,
they're handsome trees and there is a big variety to choose from. We
grow Rhododendrons, Camellias and Eucalyptus all in close proximity in
one particular area of our garden and none have shown any signs of
trouble. What is more you can keep them at the height you want them by
pollarding them after about 3 years, once they've put on some roots and
some growth. Make sure any you buy aren't potbound because they really
don't like that. We sell a lot (not by mail order) to people who want
them for the sort of purpose you mention and we've never had any
complaints or worries that I know of. Tragically, the owner of this
nursery died in an accident but the site is running just for information
purposes and it may be helpful to you.

http://www.blueram.net/eucalyptus/homepage.asp

and at the bottom of this page is some good info on the various ways to
treat them:
http://www.australiaplants.com/Eucalyptus_Info.htm

I think Eucalyptus is a great idea, there's nothing that puts on growth
better, and when you hack it back it just comes on more.

The problems Bob is likely to face with Eucalyptus in France are
hardiness and availability. The great thing with the nursery Sacha
cited was the seed was gathered from altitude, so that the plants were
extremely hardy; all 4 of mine from that source survived -22C -- really
extraordinary for Normandy -- 2 winters back. But the plants typically
sold here are E. gunni from a hothouse. A farm not far had a well
established one in the courtyard, but it died roots and all in the cold.

So, Eucalyptus: yes. But unless you're really in a warm place like far
west Brittany or Cherbourg (or Devon!), be careful of the source, and
stick with a hardy, bushy variety like E. niphophila.

-E

On Nov 6, 5:45*pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message , lid
writes





On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT), Rod
wrote:

On Nov 4, 8:34*am, bob wrote:
Does anyone have any experience of these trees? Is it known also by
another name?
I'm trying to find one that doesn't get too much taller than 4-5
metres. *I wonder, does it exist and how quickly does it grow?

I have no experience of the smaller clones but the big ones are superb
if you have the space - nothing else I know goes through the gamut of
harlequin colours like they do.
I wonder if you should be looking at Liquidambar at all given your
size restriction. Perhaps some of the medium Acers or Nyssa sinensis
might be better - all of them good in the autumn colour department but
more modest sizes.

Rod

I've checked some of the pics on google and I love the look of the
tree you've suggested but as I mentioned to Sacha, I have an urgent
need for size which in the last few days has started to dominate other
considerations. *I've already had half a dozen paper birch trees
planted and I wanted to get some variety so have opted for the
liquidambar whcih I suspect will be a faster grower than the Nyssa
sinensis? *I appreciate the suggestion though, many thanks for that.

The Japanese maples can be stunning in autumn, but they're slow growing,
and I have the impression that they're finicky about where they grew.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, by medium sized I was by implication, excluding the Japanese
Maples, thinking more of some of the european and North American
species.

Rod

On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 17:33:01 +0100, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 11/07/2010 04:19 PM, Sacha wrote:
On 2010-11-07 14:02:51 +0000, bob said:


- funny you should mention Eucalyptus, I spotted one yesterday next
to the liquidambar. It's definitely a possible.

Are they straightforward? The soil nearby has a few camelias so I'd
want to keep it acid...don't know if that would be a problem..

I don't know of any problems with them in those terms at all. IMO,
they're handsome trees and there is a big variety to choose from. We
grow Rhododendrons, Camellias and Eucalyptus all in close proximity in
one particular area of our garden and none have shown any signs of
trouble. What is more you can keep them at the height you want them by
pollarding them after about 3 years, once they've put on some roots and
some growth. Make sure any you buy aren't potbound because they really
don't like that. We sell a lot (not by mail order) to people who want
them for the sort of purpose you mention and we've never had any
complaints or worries that I know of. Tragically, the owner of this
nursery died in an accident but the site is running just for information
purposes and it may be helpful to you.

http://www.blueram.net/eucalyptus/homepage.asp

and at the bottom of this page is some good info on the various ways to
treat them:
http://www.australiaplants.com/Eucalyptus_Info.htm

I think Eucalyptus is a great idea, there's nothing that puts on growth
better, and when you hack it back it just comes on more.

The problems Bob is likely to face with Eucalyptus in France are
hardiness and availability. The great thing with the nursery Sacha
cited was the seed was gathered from altitude, so that the plants were
extremely hardy; all 4 of mine from that source survived -22C -- really
extraordinary for Normandy -- 2 winters back. But the plants typically
sold here are E. gunni from a hothouse. A farm not far had a well
established one in the courtyard, but it died roots and all in the cold.

So, Eucalyptus: yes. But unless you're really in a warm place like far
west Brittany or Cherbourg (or Devon!), be careful of the source, and
stick with a hardy, bushy variety like E. niphophila.

-E

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:47:51 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-08 09:35:34 +0000, bob said:
snip

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

I wonder if you're a lot colder than Jersey, which has had two severe
(for them) winters on the trot and where Eucalyptus certainly survived
as did e.g. Embothrium. There might be a comparative temp chart
somewhere but otoh, length of a really cold period is important, not
just a one-off temp example.

Yes, understood. Because it's a town garden and reasonable sheltered
(moreso with a 15metre hulk about to be built!) I think I'm going to
take the risk anyway. Being somewhat in thrall to my gardener who
does only the work I'm physically incapable of and finding such help
rare in these parts I'll probably have to go along with what he can
get me for this part of my screen. I've emailed him with the simple
message "Eucalyptus?" but so far no reply.

So, I've got another spot in the garden which could benefit from
another tree so will almost certainly get a Eucalyptus on my own
initiative - it'll have to be portable since I take the ferry as a
foot passenger!.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 14:22:16 +0000, bob wrote:

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:47:51 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-08 09:35:34 +0000, bob said:
snip

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

I wonder if you're a lot colder than Jersey, which has had two severe
(for them) winters on the trot and where Eucalyptus certainly survived
as did e.g. Embothrium. There might be a comparative temp chart
somewhere but otoh, length of a really cold period is important, not
just a one-off temp example.

Yes, understood. Because it's a town garden and reasonable sheltered
(moreso with a 15metre hulk about to be built!) I think I'm going to
take the risk anyway. Being somewhat in thrall to my gardener who
does only the work I'm physically incapable of and finding such help
rare in these parts I'll probably have to go along with what he can
get me for this part of my screen. I've emailed him with the simple
message "Eucalyptus?" but so far no reply.


Now I have a reply from my supplier/gardener. He's talking about
Eucalyptus gunnii. From the information I've quickly checked out it
looks as though this might fit the requirements for size (normally 15m
he says but from what I read it seems it can be kept under control to
any size) and it's tolerant to cold down to minus 15deg C.

I wonder if you're familiar with this variety and whether or not
'gunnii' uniquely defines it? I ask this because I see two different
names, 'cider gum' and 'silver drop' but perhaps these are the same
tree?

In message , lid
writes
On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 14:22:16 +0000, bob wrote:

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:47:51 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-08 09:35:34 +0000, bob said:
snip

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

I wonder if you're a lot colder than Jersey, which has had two severe
(for them) winters on the trot and where Eucalyptus certainly survived
as did e.g. Embothrium. There might be a comparative temp chart
somewhere but otoh, length of a really cold period is important, not
just a one-off temp example.

Yes, understood. Because it's a town garden and reasonable sheltered
(moreso with a 15metre hulk about to be built!) I think I'm going to
take the risk anyway. Being somewhat in thrall to my gardener who
does only the work I'm physically incapable of and finding such help
rare in these parts I'll probably have to go along with what he can
get me for this part of my screen. I've emailed him with the simple
message "Eucalyptus?" but so far no reply.


Now I have a reply from my supplier/gardener. He's talking about
Eucalyptus gunnii. From the information I've quickly checked out it
looks as though this might fit the requirements for size (normally 15m
he says but from what I read it seems it can be kept under control to
any size) and it's tolerant to cold down to minus 15deg C.

I wonder if you're familiar with this variety and whether or not
'gunnii' uniquely defines it? I ask this because I see two different
names, 'cider gum' and 'silver drop' but perhaps these are the same
tree?

Wikipedia can be your friend.

Fide Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_gunni

Eucalyptus gunnii (cider gum) is the species, which is "endemic to
Tasmania, occurring on the plains and slopes of the central plateaux[1]
to around 1100 metres", and 'Silver Drop' is a cultivar.

Googling around 'Silver Drop' seems to be a dwarf cultivar, with a
height and spread of 2 to 3 feet.

I'd expect Eucalyptus gunnii to be hardy in most of Britain and France.
I'm not so sure about 'Silver Drop'. But do you own research - I just
spent 5 minutes with Google, and may have got the wrong impression.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 19:25:33 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

In message , lid
writes
On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 14:22:16 +0000, bob wrote:

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:47:51 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-08 09:35:34 +0000, bob said:
snip

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

I wonder if you're a lot colder than Jersey, which has had two severe
(for them) winters on the trot and where Eucalyptus certainly survived
as did e.g. Embothrium. There might be a comparative temp chart
somewhere but otoh, length of a really cold period is important, not
just a one-off temp example.

Yes, understood. Because it's a town garden and reasonable sheltered
(moreso with a 15metre hulk about to be built!) I think I'm going to
take the risk anyway. Being somewhat in thrall to my gardener who
does only the work I'm physically incapable of and finding such help
rare in these parts I'll probably have to go along with what he can
get me for this part of my screen. I've emailed him with the simple
message "Eucalyptus?" but so far no reply.


Now I have a reply from my supplier/gardener. He's talking about
Eucalyptus gunnii. From the information I've quickly checked out it
looks as though this might fit the requirements for size (normally 15m
he says but from what I read it seems it can be kept under control to
any size) and it's tolerant to cold down to minus 15deg C.

I wonder if you're familiar with this variety and whether or not
'gunnii' uniquely defines it? I ask this because I see two different
names, 'cider gum' and 'silver drop' but perhaps these are the same
tree?

Wikipedia can be your friend.



Fide Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_gunni

Eucalyptus gunnii (cider gum) is the species, which is "endemic to
Tasmania, occurring on the plains and slopes of the central plateaux[1]
to around 1100 metres", and 'Silver Drop' is a cultivar.

Googling around 'Silver Drop' seems to be a dwarf cultivar, with a
height and spread of 2 to 3 feet.

I'd expect Eucalyptus gunnii to be hardy in most of Britain and France.
I'm not so sure about 'Silver Drop'. But do you own research - I just
spent 5 minutes with Google, and may have got the wrong impression.

.... in fact I'd already scanned, as I always do, various pages
including the wiki page you've linked to (wiki and I are old buddies)
before coming here, but its my perpetual fear that I come away with
the wrong imression that leads me to seek reassurance and possible
confirmation here.

- thanks for your input though.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:44:12 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-13 18:42:37 +0000, bob said:

On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 14:22:16 +0000, bob wrote:

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:47:51 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-08 09:35:34 +0000, bob said:
snip

Thanks Sacha and Emery to you both. My experience of local Normandy
weather is of colder winters and warmer summers by about 3 or 4 deg to
a point immediately across the water though these could reflect a
micro-climate as local as my garden - I'm not sure of the general
picture. Last winter here was surprisingly harsh. So at this point,
while I'm more excited by the Eucalyptus, I might finally saddle the
gardener with the responsibility of selection since any risk of
survival could very adversely affect the view here! If he's
optimistic about - and can source - an E. niphophila or another he
thinks he can vouch for then I'll go with that....advice here much
appreciated.

I wonder if you're a lot colder than Jersey, which has had two severe
(for them) winters on the trot and where Eucalyptus certainly survived
as did e.g. Embothrium. There might be a comparative temp chart
somewhere but otoh, length of a really cold period is important, not
just a one-off temp example.

Yes, understood. Because it's a town garden and reasonable sheltered
(moreso with a 15metre hulk about to be built!) I think I'm going to
take the risk anyway. Being somewhat in thrall to my gardener who
does only the work I'm physically incapable of and finding such help
rare in these parts I'll probably have to go along with what he can
get me for this part of my screen. I've emailed him with the simple
message "Eucalyptus?" but so far no reply.


Now I have a reply from my supplier/gardener. He's talking about
Eucalyptus gunnii. From the information I've quickly checked out it
looks as though this might fit the requirements for size (normally 15m
he says but from what I read it seems it can be kept under control to
any size) and it's tolerant to cold down to minus 15deg C.

I wonder if you're familiar with this variety and whether or not
'gunnii' uniquely defines it? I ask this because I see two different
names, 'cider gum' and 'silver drop' but perhaps these are the same
tree?

I don't know 'Silver Drop' but E. gunnii is one of the best known and
is considered one of the most hardy, if not the hardiest. Some say it
can go to -15C but I've never experienced that, I'm happy to say. He
may be going for that because he *knows* it's good for your climate or
because he knows it's freely available - which might of course, amount
to the same thing! You can keep it to the height you want, as we
discussed earlier. If you let it go without pollarding it, it could
get to 80', with a spread of around 30', so be aware of what you're
planting. That said, it's a lovely tree. Plant it in full sun in well
drained and fertile soil. Good choice for your needs, imo.

- thanks Sacha, I'm going to go ahead with this tree. As you say he
knows what is safe in this neck of the woods and I'll certainly be
maintaining a curb on its excesses.

I'm obliged to you for mentioning it in the first place - it's most
likely otherwise I'd have treated it as a passing fancy!

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 11:28:27 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-14 08:47:23 +0000, bob said:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:44:12 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2010-11-13 18:42:37 +0000, bob said:
snipNow I have a reply from my supplier/gardener. He's talking about
Eucalyptus gunnii. From the information I've quickly checked out it
looks as though this might fit the requirements for size (normally 15m
he says but from what I read it seems it can be kept under control to
any size) and it's tolerant to cold down to minus 15deg C.

I wonder if you're familiar with this variety and whether or not
'gunnii' uniquely defines it? I ask this because I see two different
names, 'cider gum' and 'silver drop' but perhaps these are the same
tree?

I don't know 'Silver Drop' but E. gunnii is one of the best known and
is considered one of the most hardy, if not the hardiest. Some say it
can go to -15C but I've never experienced that, I'm happy to say. He
may be going for that because he *knows* it's good for your climate or
because he knows it's freely available - which might of course, amount
to the same thing! You can keep it to the height you want, as we
discussed earlier. If you let it go without pollarding it, it could
get to 80', with a spread of around 30', so be aware of what you're
planting. That said, it's a lovely tree. Plant it in full sun in well
drained and fertile soil. Good choice for your needs, imo.

- thanks Sacha, I'm going to go ahead with this tree. As you say he
knows what is safe in this neck of the woods and I'll certainly be
maintaining a curb on its excesses.

I'm obliged to you for mentioning it in the first place - it's most
likely otherwise I'd have treated it as a passing fancy!

I think you'll like it and I hope it does well for you. It's unlikely
to be a problem at this time of year but keep it well watered and do
remember not to get one that's pot bound.


- will do!