We are having trouble choosing between Acer Bloodgood, Garnet Dissectum, or
Burgundy Lace. Which would you experts consider the best for colour,
hardiness and shape.

We are going to put it in reasonably sheltered from wind, sun and shade, the
plant will be in the north facing border , in an East facing garden, it will
be sheltered by Mesquite Gold rush, Silver birch, beech and a large clump
of spyrea.

We want to buy a 5'by 3' to fill the gap, and we would be keeping it in its
pot for the moment.

We live in Formby, Merseyside, approx 2miles away from the sea.

We would prefer deep red in Autumn, but looking on the internet and books,
I'm sure some of the colours are enhanced.


Thanks very much.

On 07/05/2011 21:00, sheila wrote:
We are having trouble choosing between Acer Bloodgood, Garnet Dissectum, or
Burgundy Lace. Which would you experts consider the best for colour,
hardiness and shape.

We are going to put it in reasonably sheltered from wind, sun and shade, the
plant will be in the north facing border , in an East facing garden, it will
be sheltered by Mesquite Gold rush, Silver birch, beech and a large clump
of spyrea.

We want to buy a 5'by 3' to fill the gap, and we would be keeping it in its
pot for the moment.

We live in Formby, Merseyside, approx 2miles away from the sea.

We would prefer deep red in Autumn, but looking on the internet and books,
I'm sure some of the colours are enhanced.


Thanks very much.


None of the above. IMO, the best red-leaved acer is "Shindeshojo"
(although it is now many years old and there may be improved versions
around).

If you can find a garden centre or specialist nursery which has it
compare it with the well-known "Bloodgood" and I am sure you will agree.

--

Jeff

On 05/08/2011 10:13 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 07/05/2011 21:00, sheila wrote:
We are having trouble choosing between Acer Bloodgood, Garnet
Dissectum, or
Burgundy Lace. Which would you experts consider the best for colour,
hardiness and shape.

We are going to put it in reasonably sheltered from wind, sun and
shade, the
plant will be in the north facing border , in an East facing garden,
it will
be sheltered by Mesquite Gold rush, Silver birch, beech and a large
clump
of spyrea.

We want to buy a 5'by 3' to fill the gap, and we would be keeping it
in its
pot for the moment.

We live in Formby, Merseyside, approx 2miles away from the sea.

We would prefer deep red in Autumn, but looking on the internet and
books,
I'm sure some of the colours are enhanced.


Thanks very much.


None of the above. IMO, the best red-leaved acer is "Shindeshojo"
(although it is now many years old and there may be improved versions
around).

Sorry Jeff, but 'Shin deshojo' is a green maple (or considered as such,
it will go very green indeed without sun). It puts out leaves that are
brilliant red in spring, but will go to a bronze-ish green by mid-June.
A very desirable tree, of course, but if you have something named that
that stays red, it's likely mislabeled.

If you can find a garden centre or specialist nursery which has it
compare it with the well-known "Bloodgood" and I am sure you will agree.


Hi Sheila,

The trouble with 'Bloodgood' is getting a real one, the cultivar is very
diluted and many seedlings are sold under the name or as "Blood Good."
If you choose this one, I'd get it from someone who grafts their own,
like Karan Junker, Mallet Court Nurseries or the Westonbirt Plant
Centre. (In fact I'd recommend buying any maple from these sources).

Otherwise you've chosen 3 quite different plants.

The real 'Bloodgood' is the best of them for keeping red in the shade.
Be aware that this is a large and vigorous plant which will require root
pruning in a container, in the ground it gets to greater than 30 feet,
and of course has bold and striking leaves. Because of its size not an
ideal container tree.

'Garnet' (Garnet dissectum is an illegitimate name) is a mound forming
red dissectum, and like any dissectum it will need some training to put
on additional height. Getting one at the dimensions you want might be
quite dear. Also, I wouldn't plant one in the shade, I think it will go
quite green. If you want a dissectum you might try 'Pink Filigree',
which will hold colour better.

'Burgundy Lace' holds its red very well in the shade, my friend has
rated this one 10/10 for colour in all day dappled shade. However any
red Japanese maple tends to green in shade, it's just a question of
degree. It is a much smaller tree than 'Bloodgood', also a little more
difficult to grow, but quite hardy. It tends to go wider but can be
pruned to the space. Certainly my choice among the three you name.

Otherwise as you have discovered, there are so many cultivars it's hard
to keep track of. For reds in shade I might also recommend 'Beni
Otake', or 'Red Pygmy', for linearlobums, 'Orangeola' or 'Red Filigree'
(or 'Pink Filigree') for a dissectum, 'Fireglow' for another Anoenum
that keeps colour well. 'Pixie' is a very interesting dwarf that makes
an ideal container plant and holds the red very well in shade.

Yes the photos in the books are sometimes taken with strange lights or
at night, they are not very indicative of what the plants look like (at
times, other times they're OK).

Good luck!

-E

The real 'Bloodgood' is the best of them for keeping red in the shade.
Be aware that this is a large and vigorous plant which will require root
pruning in a container, in the ground it gets to greater than 30 feet,
and of course has bold and striking leaves. Because of its size not an
ideal container tree.


Sheila, apologies for highjacking your thread but I see that Emery has
mentioned container grown maples.

Emery, we have a splendid 2.5 metres tall Sango kaku in a 50 cms cube
container. Your remark above concerning the need for root pruning has
given me food for thought. Given the current rate of growth it occurs
to me that it will quite rapidly outgrow the container and that we
probably made a mistake by not planting it in the open ground.

If you concur with this when would be the best time to move it, autumn
or next next spring?

rbel

On 05/08/2011 09:32 PM, wrote:
Emery, we have a splendid 2.5 metres tall Sango kaku in a 50 cms cube
container. Your remark above concerning the need for root pruning has
given me food for thought. Given the current rate of growth it occurs
to me that it will quite rapidly outgrow the container and that we
probably made a mistake by not planting it in the open ground.

If you concur with this when would be the best time to move it, autumn
or next next spring?


Hello rbel,

Normally I like to plant out in autumn from containers. (I grow most
young grafts or seed grown maples for 2-4 years in containers before
planting out.) This gives the roots a head start and eases the watering
chores for the following year. But Sango kaku is an exception, because
it is extremely prone to pseudomonas bark infections in our wet winter
climates. So for that one I'd plant out in spring, and make sure I
could provide regular water for the 2 years it will take to establish in
the landscape.

Make sure you have really free draining soil to put it in, but with a
good water source, if you can't provide that it might be better to leave
it in the container. Although it's quite popular Sango kaku can be a
really tricky maple to grow if the conditions aren't ideal. It does
deal well with sun but if that's a change it may experience some die back.

I have a couple in the ground currently and none in pots, but if I had
one that was performing really well in a container I'd be tempted to
leave it there. However there's no question that ultimately, if it can
make the transition, it will do better in the ground. For now, you
could take a look at the roots and see how it's doing, container maples
don't seem to mind this.

HTH,

-E

Emery Davis wrote:

The real 'Bloodgood' is the best of them for keeping red in the shade.
Be aware that this is a large and vigorous plant which will require
root pruning in a container, in the ground it gets to greater than 30
feet, and of course has bold and striking leaves. Because of its
size not an ideal container tree.

'Garnet' (Garnet dissectum is an illegitimate name) is a mound forming
red dissectum, and like any dissectum it will need some training to
put on additional height. Getting one at the dimensions you want
might be quite dear. Also, I wouldn't plant one in the shade, I
think it will go quite green. If you want a dissectum you might try
'Pink Filigree', which will hold colour better.

'Burgundy Lace' holds its red very well in the shade, my friend has
rated this one 10/10 for colour in all day dappled shade. However any
red Japanese maple tends to green in shade, it's just a question of
degree. It is a much smaller tree than 'Bloodgood', also a little more
difficult to grow, but quite hardy. It tends to go wider but can be
pruned to the space. Certainly my choice among the three you name.

Otherwise as you have discovered, there are so many cultivars it's
hard to keep track of. For reds in shade I might also recommend 'Beni
Otake', or 'Red Pygmy', for linearlobums, 'Orangeola' or 'Red
Filigree' (or 'Pink Filigree') for a dissectum, 'Fireglow' for
another Anoenum that keeps colour well. 'Pixie' is a very
interesting dwarf that makes an ideal container plant and holds the
red very well in shade.

Yes the photos in the books are sometimes taken with strange lights or
at night, they are not very indicative of what the plants look like
(at times, other times they're OK).

That's very informative Emery, thanks. And very timely that there have
been a fair few posts about Acers over the weekend.

One of my first urg posts was about an Acer Garnet that I'd been given.
It was in a pot but unfortunately died over the winter (due to
waterlogging of the roots, by the look of it).

I am planning on replacing it and this time, due to the previous
issues, I think it will be planted out - once I decide where to put it
anyway . The only spot I have available at the moment would be be up
against a fence but on the North side, and further sheltered from one
side by a largish Willow.

I'd like to get one that is predominantly red-leaved but worry that
this might a bit too sheltered. Your post has certainly given me food
for thought and I will visit some of the better local garden centres
next weekend - maybe even Wisley.

--
Chris

On Mon, 09 May 2011 00:40:03 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 05/08/2011 09:32 PM, wrote:
Emery, we have a splendid 2.5 metres tall Sango kaku in a 50 cms cube
container. Your remark above concerning the need for root pruning has
given me food for thought. Given the current rate of growth it occurs
to me that it will quite rapidly outgrow the container and that we
probably made a mistake by not planting it in the open ground.

If you concur with this when would be the best time to move it, autumn
or next next spring?


Hello rbel,

Normally I like to plant out in autumn from containers. (I grow most
young grafts or seed grown maples for 2-4 years in containers before
planting out.) This gives the roots a head start and eases the watering
chores for the following year. But Sango kaku is an exception, because
it is extremely prone to pseudomonas bark infections in our wet winter
climates. So for that one I'd plant out in spring, and make sure I
could provide regular water for the 2 years it will take to establish in
the landscape.

Make sure you have really free draining soil to put it in, but with a
good water source, if you can't provide that it might be better to leave
it in the container. Although it's quite popular Sango kaku can be a
really tricky maple to grow if the conditions aren't ideal. It does
deal well with sun but if that's a change it may experience some die back.

I have a couple in the ground currently and none in pots, but if I had
one that was performing really well in a container I'd be tempted to
leave it there. However there's no question that ultimately, if it can
make the transition, it will do better in the ground. For now, you
could take a look at the roots and see how it's doing, container maples
don't seem to mind this.


Emery, many thanks.

I was not aware of the potential for pseudomonas blight, definitely
something to watch out for.

I am somewhat concerned about damaging the plant when removing it from
the container to prune the roots on a regular basis - would this
normally be necessary every two or three years?

Robert

On 05/09/2011 08:40 PM, rbel wrote:
I am somewhat concerned about damaging the plant when removing it from
the container to prune the roots on a regular basis - would this
normally be necessary every two or three years?


Hi Robert, I wouldn't do it more than every 3 years personally. On
older trees the bark lower down, where you handle it, should be
reasonably though, but you're right to be as careful as possible. Also
it's important to not build the soil up it when you replant (if you
change the soil) but stick to the original root collar. Too shallow is
better than too deep.

cheers,

-E

On 05/09/2011 12:03 PM, CT wrote:
I'd like to get one that is predominantly red-leaved but worry that
this might a bit too sheltered. Your post has certainly given me food
for thought and I will visit some of the better local garden centres
next weekend - maybe even Wisley.


Does it get any sun at all? If not, you could try something really
exotic like 'Ukigumo'. Not everyone's favorite but can really brighten
up a dark spot...

-E

Emery Davis wrote:

On 05/09/2011 12:03 PM, CT wrote:
I'd like to get one that is predominantly red-leaved but worry that
this might a bit too sheltered. Your post has certainly given me
food for thought and I will visit some of the better local garden
centres next weekend - maybe even Wisley.


Does it get any sun at all? If not, you could try something really
exotic like 'Ukigumo'. Not everyone's favorite but can really
brighten up a dark spot...

I noticed this morning at ~7am that the spot was already in the shadow
of the willow, and once the sun clears the willow it would be in the
shadow of the fence, so no!

I'm not sure that's the best place for it now, but will have a look
into 'Ukigumo'. Are these readily available, or would I need somewhere
a bit more specialised than a garden centre?[1] More importantly, are
they hardy enough to get through a winter with little TLC?

[1] Most GCs I've been to seemed to have mainly Garnet & Bloodgood, but
that might have just been because that was what I was looking for at
the time!

--
Chris

On 05/10/2011 09:47 AM, CT wrote:
Emery Davis wrote:

On 05/09/2011 12:03 PM, CT wrote:
I'd like to get one that is predominantly red-leaved but worry that
this might a bit too sheltered. Your post has certainly given me
food for thought and I will visit some of the better local garden
centres next weekend - maybe even Wisley.


Does it get any sun at all? If not, you could try something really
exotic like 'Ukigumo'. Not everyone's favorite but can really
brighten up a dark spot...

I noticed this morning at ~7am that the spot was already in the shadow
of the willow, and once the sun clears the willow it would be in the
shadow of the fence, so no!

I'm not sure that's the best place for it now, but will have a look
into 'Ukigumo'. Are these readily available, or would I need somewhere
a bit more specialised than a garden centre?[1] More importantly, are
they hardy enough to get through a winter with little TLC?

[1] Most GCs I've been to seemed to have mainly Garnet & Bloodgood, but
that might have just been because that was what I was looking for at
the time!


I don't think you'll find Ukigumo at a garden centre, although you never
know. It's a rather "special" tree, here's a picture of the plant at
Westonbirt:

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/fo...6&postcount=30

For my taste if I wanted to brighten such a shady spot I'd put Acer
campestre 'Carnival', which is a very remarkable tree:

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/fo...ad.php?t=13077

although mine in full sun shows a lot more pink than those pictured. A
lot easier to grow than something like Ukigumo, too.

Of course none of these are red! With that much shade, I do think
any red will bronze out a lot under the circumstances you describe.

On Mon, 09 May 2011 22:59:38 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 05/09/2011 08:40 PM, rbel wrote:
I am somewhat concerned about damaging the plant when removing it from
the container to prune the roots on a regular basis - would this
normally be necessary every two or three years?


Hi Robert, I wouldn't do it more than every 3 years personally. On
older trees the bark lower down, where you handle it, should be
reasonably though, but you're right to be as careful as possible. Also
it's important to not build the soil up it when you replant (if you
change the soil) but stick to the original root collar. Too shallow is
better than too deep.


Many thanks

rbel

Emery Davis wrote:

I don't think you'll find Ukigumo at a garden centre, although you
never know. It's a rather "special" tree, here's a picture of the
plant at Westonbirt:


http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/fo...6&postcount=30

For my taste if I wanted to brighten such a shady spot I'd put Acer
campestre 'Carnival', which is a very remarkable tree:

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/fo...ad.php?t=13077

although mine in full sun shows a lot more pink than those pictured.
A lot easier to grow than something like Ukigumo, too.

Of course none of these are red! With that much shade, I do think
any red will bronze out a lot under the circumstances you describe.

Those do look nice but I think I'm really after Acer palmatum, hence
the idea that I may change where it gets planted rather than change
what I get. I'm just not sure where it can go yet!

Thanks anyway for you help - I think also a trip out to a decent GC
and/or Wisley to have a chat with someone in the know might be worth
doing.

--
Chris

Thank you so much for a very informative post, we had bought a Bloodgood in
the end, and its still in its pot, in our chosen position, it seems ok
there, the trouble is as you say so many varieties, and we wanted a
particular size and shape. But made very good reading, one day I'll take my
phone out again and record another video of the garden, so you can see the
changes from my original one.