Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Someone told me that the way to deter the sparrowhawk is to get a model
owl into the garden - anyone tried this, and does it work!


--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:09:56 +0100, Roger Tonkin
wrote:

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Someone told me that the way to deter the sparrowhawk is to get a model
owl into the garden - anyone tried this, and does it work!

A large model owl could perhaps work as the sparrowhawk may perceive
it as a threat to its own safety. The problem is that it would
probably have the same or a more marked effect on the smaller birds
that you wish to attract to your garden.

Various deterrents have been tried at game bird rearing pens such as
dangling CDs or similar to produce flashing reflections, flashing
lights and particularly for sparrowhawks, tall canes that will
interfere with their fast low-level approach. These sort of measures
are however undoubtedly OTT for a domestic garden.

It is worth bearing in mind that the supply of small birds is, as a
rule, more than enough to keep pace with predation by raptors and that
losses through other causes are far more significant. Having watched
our local male sparrowhawk leisurely dismember a fledgling blackbird
on our rear lawn on Wednesday I appreciate that the evidence of a
raptor strike is more remarkable than the frequent disappearances due
to cats, magpies, disease, starvation etc..

rbel

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:18:20 +0100, rbel wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:09:56 +0100, Roger Tonkin
wrote:

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Someone told me that the way to deter the sparrowhawk is to get a model
owl into the garden - anyone tried this, and does it work!

A large model owl could perhaps work as the sparrowhawk may perceive
it as a threat to its own safety. The problem is that it would
probably have the same or a more marked effect on the smaller birds
that you wish to attract to your garden.

Various deterrents have been tried at game bird rearing pens such as
dangling CDs or similar to produce flashing reflections, flashing
lights and particularly for sparrowhawks, tall canes that will
interfere with their fast low-level approach. These sort of measures
are however undoubtedly OTT for a domestic garden.

It is worth bearing in mind that the supply of small birds is, as a
rule, more than enough to keep pace with predation by raptors and that
losses through other causes are far more significant. Having watched
our local male sparrowhawk leisurely dismember a fledgling blackbird
on our rear lawn on Wednesday I appreciate that the evidence of a
raptor strike is more remarkable than the frequent disappearances due
to cats, magpies, disease, starvation etc..

rbel

If we put food out for birds, and birds come and eat it, arguably we
are providing an "artificial" food source, without which, natural
selection would presumably mean that numbers of birds would match the
available "natural" food source. So we help to increase bird numbers.

Indirectly we provide an "artificial" food source for the raptors as,
without our feeding, there would not be a "natural" gathering of birds
in such numbers. But the raptors would still feed and the impact would
be that much greater for the "food birds" who would not exist in such
large numbers were it not for our help.

So don't feel guilty. You are helping both the little birds and the
raptors to maintain their population.

This is what nature is - cruel in many ways. But raptors kill to eat,
not for sport (unlike humans!). I would accept nature as it is.

That said, I have bird feeders hanging in the middle of a large
pyracantha. The little birds seem to get in and out easily but cats
find it more difficult (I'm more "urban" than you in mid-Wales) and
the local sparrow hawk similarly has more difficulty getting at them,
though he does still take a fair few. Filling the feeders is also fun
given the size of the thorns on the shrub!

Cheers
Jake
==============================================
Gardening at the dry end (east) of Swansea Bay
in between reading anything by JRR Tolkien.

www.rivendell.org.uk

"Roger Tonkin" wrote in message
...

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Many years ago (N.London) a sparrow hawk attack was thwarted by the
squirrel-proof bars on our peanut feeder and the BTs lived to fly another
day.

Last week (now E.Cornwall) a sparrow was not so lucky. As I emerged from the
kitchen door a SH pounced. On seeing me, it was unable to perform an instant
kill, so flew off carrying the hapless sparrow ....... alive!!

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2011-07-30 22:34:24 +0100, "Bertie Doe" said:



"Roger Tonkin" wrote in message
...

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Many years ago (N.London) a sparrow hawk attack was thwarted by the
squirrel-proof bars on our peanut feeder and the BTs lived to fly another
day.

Last week (now E.Cornwall) a sparrow was not so lucky. As I emerged from
the kitchen door a SH pounced. On seeing me, it was unable to perform an
instant kill, so flew off carrying the hapless sparrow ....... alive!!

I'm told that they don't actually kill. They eat their prey alive.
Fluffy-wuffy Naturekins doesn't exist, I'm afraid!

I was once told that the reason cats play with their catches is to see if
it's fit to eat! Apparently, if it dies too quick, there may be something
wrong with it, and make them ill. Don't know if there is any truth in this,
but it might explain why sometimes I am confronted with an unmarked corpse
and at others an unidentifiable heap of innards.

--
Kathy

On 31/07/2011 13:54, Kathy wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2011-07-30 22:34:24 +0100, "Bertie Doe" said:



"Roger Tonkin" wrote in message
...

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the
sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Many years ago (N.London) a sparrow hawk attack was thwarted by the
squirrel-proof bars on our peanut feeder and the BTs lived to fly
another day.

Last week (now E.Cornwall) a sparrow was not so lucky. As I emerged
from the kitchen door a SH pounced. On seeing me, it was unable to
perform an instant kill, so flew off carrying the hapless sparrow
....... alive!!

I'm told that they don't actually kill. They eat their prey alive.
Fluffy-wuffy Naturekins doesn't exist, I'm afraid!

I was once told that the reason cats play with their catches is to see
if it's fit to eat! Apparently, if it dies too quick, there may be
something wrong with it, and make them ill. Don't know if there is any
truth in this, but it might explain why sometimes I am confronted with
an unmarked corpse and at others an unidentifiable heap of innards.


There may very well be some truth in this, but cats 'play' with birds as
a training technique. A mother cat will deliver a healthy (or slightly
wounded bird) to her kittens in order to train them how to kill/hunt. A
female (neutered) cat of mine rarely killed birds, but held them captive
between her paws until I rescued them. *I* was supposed to be the
kitten, of course, but I 'failed' to learn the killing technique
(usually a neck bite) and released the bird instead.

Cats are efficient. Owners who understand their cats may be more so. I
have lost track of the number of birds and mice I have mercifully
released unharmed.

Unmarked corpses and unidentifiable innards often simply denote hunting
for food v hunting by inexperienced and ineffective kits. Cats rarely
hunt for sport.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2011 13:54, Kathy wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2011-07-30 22:34:24 +0100, "Bertie Doe" said:



"Roger Tonkin" wrote in message
...

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the
sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Many years ago (N.London) a sparrow hawk attack was thwarted by the
squirrel-proof bars on our peanut feeder and the BTs lived to fly
another day.

Last week (now E.Cornwall) a sparrow was not so lucky. As I emerged
from the kitchen door a SH pounced. On seeing me, it was unable to
perform an instant kill, so flew off carrying the hapless sparrow
....... alive!!

I'm told that they don't actually kill. They eat their prey alive.
Fluffy-wuffy Naturekins doesn't exist, I'm afraid!

I was once told that the reason cats play with their catches is to see
if it's fit to eat! Apparently, if it dies too quick, there may be
something wrong with it, and make them ill. Don't know if there is any
truth in this, but it might explain why sometimes I am confronted with
an unmarked corpse and at others an unidentifiable heap of innards.


There may very well be some truth in this, but cats 'play' with birds as a
training technique. A mother cat will deliver a healthy (or slightly
wounded bird) to her kittens in order to train them how to kill/hunt. A
female (neutered) cat of mine rarely killed birds, but held them captive
between her paws until I rescued them. *I* was supposed to be the kitten,
of course, but I 'failed' to learn the killing technique (usually a neck
bite) and released the bird instead.

Cats are efficient. Owners who understand their cats may be more so. I
have lost track of the number of birds and mice I have mercifully released
unharmed.

Unmarked corpses and unidentifiable innards often simply denote hunting
for food v hunting by inexperienced and ineffective kits. Cats rarely
hunt for sport.

My two are no longer kits, though one is fairly thick. Alfie is the main
hunter, and usually kills quickly and efficiently. He is also the one who
leaves me the icky presents. Charlie brings everything in alive and lets it
go. If I can get to it before Alfie, it's safe.

Mind you, bending down to change their water one morning and finding a very
large, ****ed off frog residing in it was a bit of a shock :-}

--
Kathy

On 02/08/2011 13:39, Kathy wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2011 13:54, Kathy wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2011-07-30 22:34:24 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
said:



"Roger Tonkin" wrote in message
...

Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel
that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the
sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Many years ago (N.London) a sparrow hawk attack was thwarted by the
squirrel-proof bars on our peanut feeder and the BTs lived to fly
another day.

Last week (now E.Cornwall) a sparrow was not so lucky. As I emerged
from the kitchen door a SH pounced. On seeing me, it was unable to
perform an instant kill, so flew off carrying the hapless sparrow
....... alive!!

I'm told that they don't actually kill. They eat their prey alive.
Fluffy-wuffy Naturekins doesn't exist, I'm afraid!

I was once told that the reason cats play with their catches is to see
if it's fit to eat! Apparently, if it dies too quick, there may be
something wrong with it, and make them ill. Don't know if there is any
truth in this, but it might explain why sometimes I am confronted with
an unmarked corpse and at others an unidentifiable heap of innards.


There may very well be some truth in this, but cats 'play' with birds
as a training technique. A mother cat will deliver a healthy (or
slightly wounded bird) to her kittens in order to train them how to
kill/hunt. A female (neutered) cat of mine rarely killed birds, but
held them captive between her paws until I rescued them. *I* was
supposed to be the kitten, of course, but I 'failed' to learn the
killing technique (usually a neck bite) and released the bird instead.

Cats are efficient. Owners who understand their cats may be more so. I
have lost track of the number of birds and mice I have mercifully
released unharmed.

Unmarked corpses and unidentifiable innards often simply denote
hunting for food v hunting by inexperienced and ineffective kits. Cats
rarely hunt for sport.

My two are no longer kits, though one is fairly thick. Alfie is the main
hunter, and usually kills quickly and efficiently. He is also the one
who leaves me the icky presents. Charlie brings everything in alive and
lets it go. If I can get to it before Alfie, it's safe.

Mind you, bending down to change their water one morning and finding a
very large, ****ed off frog residing in it was a bit of a shock :-}



:~) Oh yes, I've rescued a few frogs in the past. Unfortunately,
Panther returns straight to the pond to fish for it again. Haven't seen
any frogs for about three years, and I don't think it's all Panther's
fault. We have seen lots of crows/ravens here (still can't tell the
difference!), so maybe they've been picking off the poor little critters
:~(.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 02/08/2011 19:39, in article , "Spider"
wrote:

:~) Oh yes, I've rescued a few frogs in the past. Unfortunately,
Panther returns straight to the pond to fish for it again. Haven't seen
any frogs for about three years, and I don't think it's all Panther's
fault. We have seen lots of crows/ravens here (still can't tell the
difference!), so maybe they've been picking off the poor little critters
:~(.

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

We have a blackbird who we caught in the act of lifting a newt from the
centre of the pond. Apparently not at all unusual.

On 04/08/2011 16:58, Kay wrote:



On 02/08/2011 19:39, in article , "Spider"
wrote:

:~) Oh yes, I've rescued a few frogs in the past. Unfortunately,
Panther returns straight to the pond to fish for it again. Haven't seen
any frogs for about three years, and I don't think it's all Panther's
fault. We have seen lots of crows/ravens here (still can't tell the
difference!), so maybe they've been picking off the poor little critters
:~(.

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

We have a blackbird who we caught in the act of lifting a newt from the
centre of the pond. Apparently not at all unusual.



I hope you told it that newts are protected by law ;~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 04/08/2011 16:58, Kay wrote:



On 02/08/2011 19:39, in article , "Spider"
wrote:

We have seen lots of crows/ravens here (still can't tell the
difference!), so maybe they've been picking off the poor little critters
:~(.

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

Ravens go cronk and crows caw. Also ravens have far more attitude, comes
with the size I guess.

Sizewise from big to small: ravens, rooks, crows, jackdaws.
--
Phil Cook

On 04/08/2011 22:51, Phil Cook wrote:
On 04/08/2011 16:58, Kay wrote:



On 02/08/2011 19:39, in article , "Spider"
wrote:

We have seen lots of crows/ravens here (still can't tell the
difference!), so maybe they've been picking off the poor little critters
:~(.

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

Ravens go cronk and crows caw. Also ravens have far more attitude, comes
with the size I guess.

Sizewise from big to small: ravens, rooks, crows, jackdaws.


Thanks. I'm very familiar with Jackdaws and love their blue beady-eye.
Your remaining corvid size scale is useful for comparison, but I
rarely see them side by side to make that kind of judgement. I've also
been told to look out for feathered or shaggy 'trousers' or bare beak,
but they *all* seem to have that! :~( Most frustrating.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 05/08/2011 13:16, Spider wrote:
On 04/08/2011 22:51, Phil Cook wrote:
On 04/08/2011 16:58, Kay wrote:

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

Ravens go cronk and crows caw. Also ravens have far more attitude, comes
with the size I guess.

Sizewise from big to small: ravens, rooks, crows, jackdaws.


Thanks. I'm very familiar with Jackdaws and love their blue beady-eye.
Your remaining corvid size scale is useful for comparison, but I
rarely see them side by side to make that kind of judgement. I've also
been told to look out for feathered or shaggy 'trousers' or bare beak,
but they *all* seem to have that! :~( Most frustrating.

Shaggy trousers and a bare beak (actually a patch of bare skin at the
base of the beak) is a description of a rook. They also go caw. Ravens
have more angular heads than the others.
--
Phil Cook

On 30/07/2011 10:09, Roger Tonkin wrote:
Another pile of bluetit feathers this morning!

Whilst I accept that sparrowhawks need to eat and survive, I feel that
by feeding the tits, I am encouraging them and giving the sparrowhawk an
easy meal.

Never mind that, how about feeding the plants?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-14416809
--
Phil Cook

On 05/08/2011 15:21, Phil Cook wrote:
On 05/08/2011 13:16, Spider wrote:
On 04/08/2011 22:51, Phil Cook wrote:
On 04/08/2011 16:58, Kay wrote:

Ravens are a size bigger than rooks and crows.

Ravens go cronk and crows caw. Also ravens have far more attitude, comes
with the size I guess.

Sizewise from big to small: ravens, rooks, crows, jackdaws.


Thanks. I'm very familiar with Jackdaws and love their blue beady-eye.
Your remaining corvid size scale is useful for comparison, but I
rarely see them side by side to make that kind of judgement. I've also
been told to look out for feathered or shaggy 'trousers' or bare beak,
but they *all* seem to have that! :~( Most frustrating.

Shaggy trousers and a bare beak (actually a patch of bare skin at the
base of the beak) is a description of a rook. They also go caw. Ravens
have more angular heads than the others.


Thanks for that, Phil. I'll try and apply that when next I see a
large-ish black corvid.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay