On 14/05/2012 10:58, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 09:06:30 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/05/2012 14:49, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Martin wrote in message
...

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't get
you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would probably
get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but

That is complete madness.

Of all the available weedkillers today glyphosate is about the least
dangerous to handle that there is. The wetting agents used in the
commercial formulations are more dangerous than the active ingredient.

According to the Dutch government there is evidence that glyphosate
causes degenerative damage to the nervous system leading to things
like Parkinson's disease (The results of a study made in Shanghai

The only reports I can find of this are on Organic(TM) crank sites and
anti-Monsanto sites. Whilst there might be something in it I am more
inclined to view it as scaremongering hype by all the usual suspects.

I am no fan of Monsanto, but you do have to view these green pressure
groups with suspicion or you will starve to death organically.

University). There is also evidence of a build up of glyphosate in the
ground water.

In a country where the runoff nitrate pollution levels in groundwater
make it dangerous for to drink you would think they could at least
target the primary polluters. Glyphosate degrades in the environment
pretty fast and it is unusual for it not to bind to soils.

The only thing holding up legislation banning it for private users was
the need to tighten up the system for registering commercial users.
Legislation should be completed in the next couple of months.

It is the commercial users spraying of Roundup-Ready Monsanto crops that
are the problem with overuse of glyphosate. Domestic quantities pale
into insignificance by comparison.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Why not?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...

On 14/05/2012 10:58, Martin wrote:

According to the Dutch government there is evidence that glyphosate
causes degenerative damage to the nervous system leading to things
like Parkinson's disease (The results of a study made in Shanghai

The only reports I can find of this are on Organic(TM) crank sites and
anti-Monsanto sites.

Martin may be referring to

A 2011 case study published in the journal Parkinsonism Related Disorders,
entitled "Parkinsonism after chronic occupational exposure to
glyphosate,"

Parkinsonism Relat Disord. 2011 Jul;17(6):486-7. Epub 2011 Mar 2. PMID:
21367645
Author(s):

Gang Wang, Xiao-Ning Fan, Yu-Yan Tan, Qi Cheng, Sheng-Di Chen

Department of Neurology&Institute of Neurology, Ruijin Hospital affiliated
to Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai 200025,
China.

or

an article published in the journal of Neurotoxicology and Teratology
published this month (April, 2012), entitled "Glyphosate induced cell
death through apoptotic and authophagic mechanisms"

Janet

On 14/05/2012 11:34, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

On 14/05/2012 10:58, Martin wrote:

According to the Dutch government there is evidence that glyphosate
causes degenerative damage to the nervous system leading to things
like Parkinson's disease (The results of a study made in Shanghai

The only reports I can find of this are on Organic(TM) crank sites and
anti-Monsanto sites.

Martin may be referring to

A 2011 case study published in the journal Parkinsonism Related Disorders,
entitled "Parkinsonism after chronic occupational exposure to
glyphosate,"

Parkinsonism Relat Disord. 2011 Jul;17(6):486-7. Epub 2011 Mar 2. PMID:
21367645
Author(s):

Gang Wang, Xiao-Ning Fan, Yu-Yan Tan, Qi Cheng, Sheng-Di Chen

Department of Neurology&Institute of Neurology, Ruijin Hospital affiliated
to Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai 200025,
China.

or

an article published in the journal of Neurotoxicology and Teratology
published this month (April, 2012), entitled "Glyphosate induced cell
death through apoptotic and authophagic mechanisms"

Janet

Thanks for the link.

From that I was able to find one of the papers in the primary
literature and what it says is that if you dunk some unfortunate
nematodes in 8% glyphosate they suffer from some level of degradation of
nerve function and that is the LD50. I would be a lot more wary of the
dithiocarbamide fungicide MZ.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...61813X11000301

(article behind paywall but abstract and figures are not)

But if you dunked them into 8% acetic acid or brine for 30mins or 24h
they would *all* be stone dead!

Whilst I could believe that if the wetting agent didn't kill you first
you might suffer nerve damage by ingesting huge amounts of glyphosate
concentrate I do not view it as a serious hazard. YMMV

--
Regards,
Martin Brown