I bought I Lavatera Barnsley plant at the weekend because on the label it said suitable for all soil types, perfect for my waterlogged garden I thought I have since read they prefer well drained soil, will it be ok and eventualy grow big enough to absorb the water or will it die?

Here it is in its spot...

On 19/07/2012 17:10, uklude wrote:
I bought I Lavatera Barnsley plant at the weekend because on the label
it said suitable for all soil types, perfect for my waterlogged garden I
thought I have since read they prefer well drained soil, will it be ok
and eventualy grow big enough to absorb the water or will it die?

Here it is in its spot...


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It's going to be far from happy there. If your soil is usually better
drained than this, then I suggest you pot up the Lavatera (into a bigger
pot than the one it came in) and grow it on. When the soil has had a
chance to dry out, dig over that area very deeply and incorporate some
grit or sharp sand. Normally, I would suggest planting on a slight
mound of earth to increase drainage, but the windage on a fully grown
lavatera is considerable, so there is a danger of it being uprooted in
high winds.

You certainly need to rescue it first; then deal with the soil. If,
however, your soil is always or often that soggy then, yes, the plant
will die. It's a beautiful shrub. I do hope you have somewhere sunny
and well-drained so that it may thrive.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Spider thank you very much for your reply the ground is usually very wet I believe because it has alot of clay in the soil, now I have 2 trains of thought either dig in drainage or make a bog garden, the only problem with that is the grass which is pretty useless right now.

I have planted a laurel hedge across the back wall and want to continue it down the right hand boundary, I wonder if I layed a couple of those perferated pipes could I direct them to the laurels to help keep them watered or is that a bad idea?

Eventually we want to build an extension with hardsanding for furniture, but this will only exasperate the already poor drainage I fear. Here are a couple of pictures one as it is now and one with plans of how it will be when finished. Cheers people...

You really don't want to water laurels. They grow fast enough in my dry stony low fertility chiltern plateau soil. I only have to trim them once a year, water them and it would create extra work.

On 20/07/2012 08:21, uklude wrote:
Spider thank you very much for your reply the ground is usually very wet
I believe because it has alot of clay in the soil, now I have 2 trains
of thought either dig in drainage or make a bog garden, the only problem
with that is the grass which is pretty useless right now.

I have planted a laurel hedge across the back wall and want to continue
it down the right hand boundary, I wonder if I layed a couple of those
perferated pipes could I direct them to the laurels to help keep them
watered or is that a bad idea?

Eventually we want to build an extension with hardsanding for furniture,
but this will only exasperate the already poor drainage I fear. Here are
a couple of pictures one as it is now and one with plans of how it will
be when finished. Cheers people...


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Looking at those images, I entirely agree that drainage could only get
worse so, unless you grow your Lavatera in a large pot or plan a raised
bed for it and related plants in your building project, it's never going
to be a happy plant. A raised bed could have a wide coping stone
surround, which would attractively double up as extra seating.

I agree with Echinosum that you don't need to redirect water to your
laurel hedge. It will grow all too quickly without that assistance.
The extra water will just encourage masses of sappy growth which will be
prone to disease and harder to control.

A bog garden is a better idea, but you will have to bear in mind that
those boggy conditions will attract midges, which may not be desirable
when you're sitting out on your patio.

Your plan shows a green area in front of your laurel hedge. If this is
intended to be lawn, you may have a lot of trouble mowing it when the
ground is so soggy. You will probably just tear the turf with the
mower. Also, with the shade from the building and the laurel hedge,
light levels are probably going to be too poor for strong grass growth.
Have you considered a weed-proof membrane covered with gravel or
chippings?

Sorry if most of this sounds negative! In your place I would use a low
boundary wall to allow lots of soil improvement, which would increase
the height of the soil. With heaps of grit or sharp sand and some
coarse compost, you stand a chance of eventually creating some decent
soil. Clay is very good, nutritious soil when made workable. It seems
to me that your property is probably part of a newish build, where the
builders scraped away the good top soil, but failed to replace it (or
enough of it) after the building work was completed. The subsoil is
also very compacted after the weight of machinery and constant treading.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article , uklude.a7e2616
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

I bought I Lavatera Barnsley plant at the weekend because on the label
it said suitable for all soil types, perfect for my waterlogged garden I
thought I have since read they prefer well drained soil, will it be ok
and eventualy grow big enough to absorb the water or will it die?

You've mistaken what "soil type" refers to.

"Soil type" is normally taken to mean soil structure and chemistry;
whether it's acid, alkaline or neutral; chalky or peaty, sandy or clay.

It doesn't refer to the plant's preferred aspect ( sunny/shady, well
drained or boggy, wind tolerant or sheltered).

Your lavatera won't thrive (or even survive) in waterlogged soil.

Janet

Thats a great point about midges I didn't think of that your right it would be impossible to sit out and enjoy the summer evenings if we were under constant attack by midges. Also the grass would be as much use as it is now and tbh I wouldn't even dare walk on it at the moment.

If I dig out the bed that the Lavatera is in and turn in plenty of rubble and sand about 30cm down would that be enough to solve it for now or would the natural water table just fill it back up? I could put it in a pot for now but would like to get it settled in a nice spot in the garden as looking at pictures on the web they look fantastic when established.

As for light when the extension is built we do risk loosing it all with the hedges but its just a factor we will have to live with it would be nice to have the sun but there has to be a comprimise. Finally in your opinion will my laurels be at fence height in about 5 years?

On 20/07/2012 18:33, uklude wrote:
Thats a great point about midges I didn't think of that your right it
would be impossible to sit out and enjoy the summer evenings if we were
under constant attack by midges. Also the grass would be as much use as
it is now and tbh I wouldn't even dare walk on it at the moment.

If I dig out the bed that the Lavatera is in and turn in plenty of
rubble and sand about 30cm down would that be enough to solve it for now
or would the natural water table just fill it back up? I could put it in
a pot for now but would like to get it settled in a nice spot in the
garden as looking at pictures on the web they look fantastic when
established.

As for light when the extension is built we do risk loosing it all with
the hedges but its just a factor we will have to live with it would be
nice to have the sun but there has to be a comprimise. Finally in your
opinion will my laurels be at fence height in about 5 years?


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I think that because your soil is so waterlogged (I'm assuming it's the
same all over), even a drastic improvement to 30cm deep would not really
cure the problem. As you imply, it would probably just create a sump
which would refill with water.

I think your best immediate tactic would be to pot up the lavatera so
that it is no longer at risk.

Then have a chat with your neighbours and find out if all the gardens in
that build have saturated soil. If they have, find out what they have
done/are doing about it. What, if anything, they are able to grow. If
they don't have saturated soil, then you know it is just your garden.
That's not as bad as it sounds, because it means you can excavate and
put in drainage channels because there's somewhere for the water to go.
If the entire area is perennially soggy, then it's much harder to
drain the water off your site.

If you are able to drain your land, it will then become much easier to
add grit and compost to improve your soil. You will also need to feed
the soil as, by now, all the goodness will have leached out of the soil,
if it isn't actually anaerobic.

The other need your Lavatera has is *sunshine*. It is a sun-loving
plant. The sun is what ripens the wood and helps to promote flowering.
So, unless you can find a sunny, well-drained spot for it, you're in
trouble, unless you have a sunny open porch or similar. Yes, it's a
magnificently pretty shrub and deserves the best conditions.

As to your laurels, don't be in too much of a hurry to achieve height.
Density in a hedge is at least as important. Let it grow away this year
then, in the spring, give the tops a light trim. This will help to
thicken out the individual shrubs so that you start to get a more solid
hedge. Give a general feed and let them grow again. They may very well
attain fence height in five years. If that is your desired ultimate
height, make a point of cutting them back by about 20-30 cm in the
season prior to that expected height. This will ease subsequent
hedge-trimmings because you'll be cutting back into semi-hardwood
instead of fully hardwood.

It is also worth mentioning that laurels are usually clipped manually
with shears because powered hedge-trimmers tear and scar those large
leaves, leaving the hedge looking tatty. If you decide to ignore this
(some people just *love* power tools), be very careful that the
by-now-disquised fence doesn't kick the trimmer blades back at you! For
this reason, you may wish to grow the laurels a little higher than the
fence.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article , uklude.a7f7796
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...
. Finally in your
opinion will my laurels be at fence height in about 5 years?

IME, in such a compact garden space laurel is a poor choice of privacy
screening; it's a thug, it will fill out and take up too much room.
Some evergreen hedging plants (escallonia, cotoneaster, ivy) can be
pruned to make a dense shallow evergreen barrier; laurel can't. Plus its
as ugly as sin :-) and much duller.

Janet.

In article , says...
Then have a chat with your neighbours and find out if all the gardens in
that build have saturated soil. If they have, find out what they have
done/are doing about it. What, if anything, they are able to grow. If
they don't have saturated soil, then you know it is just your garden.
That's not as bad as it sounds, because it means you can excavate and
put in drainage channels because there's somewhere for the water to go.

Where is that? If she installs drainage channels, she will have to
consider where they will discharge the water to.

If you are able to drain your land, it will then become much easier to
add grit and compost to improve your soil. You will also need to feed
the soil as, by now, all the goodness will have leached out of the soil,

Not necessarily. Depending on the cause of waterlogging, wet soil may be
very rich in nutrients .

Janet

Thank you very much Janet and Spider, I could put the Lavatera on the other side of the garden where its not as bad but I think I will pot it for now as I want it in that spot so I'm going to do some work and try to encourage drainage. As you can see the Lady Mantle is doing quite well that gives you an idea of how wet it is because apart from the Mint its the only things that came up this year.

I have got some more plants today so going to plant them tonight and turn in some gravel while I'm at it, I can't remember their names but apparantly they are happy swimmers :-) will take some pics later so you can see.