I'm doing some gardening for a friend. She has raised beds (brick
walls about 30" high). She's complaining about the quality of the soil
in the beds, wants me to remove all plants, dig in "soil improver", and
replace selected plants.

The soil is black and fine, but seems very "heavy" -- perhaps "dense" is
a better word. I'm wondering if it's the type of stuff excavated from
river basins and sold as topsoil: it's a bit like the silt you'll find
beside a river. Naturally my first thought was simply to get bags
of compost and dig it in, but I'm aware that these days there are
several kinds of "soil improver" on the market, so I'd prefer to get
some advice first: I'll need a dozen or more bags to improve the top 6"
of the total area.


By the way, I've haven't done a Ph test, and cannot at the moment
because the job is in another town, about 150 miles away.

TIA for any comments,
John

Another John wrote in news:lalaw44-
lid:

I'm doing some gardening for a friend. She has raised beds (brick
walls about 30" high). She's complaining about the quality of the soil
in the beds, wants me to remove all plants, dig in "soil improver", and
replace selected plants.

The soil is black and fine, but seems very "heavy" -- perhaps "dense" is
a better word. I'm wondering if it's the type of stuff excavated from
river basins and sold as topsoil: it's a bit like the silt you'll find
beside a river. Naturally my first thought was simply to get bags
of compost and dig it in, but I'm aware that these days there are
several kinds of "soil improver" on the market, so I'd prefer to get
some advice first: I'll need a dozen or more bags to improve the top 6"
of the total area.


By the way, I've haven't done a Ph test, and cannot at the moment
because the job is in another town, about 150 miles away.

TIA for any comments,
John


I think you should do that Ph test and go from there.
Sounds like good soil to me. I am not an expert.

Very best of luck.
Baz

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 15:27:11 +0100, Another John
wrote:

I'm doing some gardening for a friend. She has raised beds (brick
walls about 30" high). She's complaining about the quality of the soil
in the beds, wants me to remove all plants, dig in "soil improver", and
replace selected plants.

The soil is black and fine, but seems very "heavy" -- perhaps "dense" is
a better word. I'm wondering if it's the type of stuff excavated from
river basins and sold as topsoil: it's a bit like the silt you'll find
beside a river. Naturally my first thought was simply to get bags
of compost and dig it in, but I'm aware that these days there are
several kinds of "soil improver" on the market, so I'd prefer to get
some advice first: I'll need a dozen or more bags to improve the top 6"
of the total area.


By the way, I've haven't done a Ph test, and cannot at the moment
because the job is in another town, about 150 miles away.

TIA for any comments,
John

Black soil tends to be high in organic matter/humus and so is quite
rich in nutrients to begin with. But it can also contain a lot of
other things and when you say fine but heavy, that may indicate a lot
of clay content.

So in addition to the pH test that Baz recommends - and this will be
an essential pre-requisite to any recommendation as to what to add to
the soil - you need to establish the type of soil. For example, when
wet, if you get a handful and squeeze it, does it stick together like
a muddy ball or does it remain crumbly? If you poor water on it, does
the water drain through or puddle on the top? When it gets dry (as if,
this year) does it set solid and crack or remain malleable?

A little bit more info is needed if you want constructive suggestions;
otherwise all we can offer is best guesses.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:35:17 +0100, Jake
wrote:

(but forgot to mention ....)

Black soil tends to be high in organic matter/humus and so is quite
rich in nutrients to begin with. But it can also contain a lot of
other things and when you say fine but heavy, that may indicate a lot
of clay content.

So in addition to the pH test that Baz recommends - and this will be
an essential pre-requisite to any recommendation as to what to add to
the soil - you need to establish the type of soil. For example, when
wet, if you get a handful and squeeze it, does it stick together like
a muddy ball or does it remain crumbly? If you poor water on it, does
the water drain through or puddle on the top? When it gets dry (as if,
this year) does it set solid and crack or remain malleable?

A little bit more info is needed if you want constructive suggestions;
otherwise all we can offer is best guesses.

Oh and what plants does she want to grow? If she wants to fill the bed
with rhododendrons then suggesting you add a load of lime will be
daft. Many soil improvers will affect the pH one way or the other.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 26/08/2012 16:38, Jake wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:35:17 +0100, Jake
wrote:

(but forgot to mention ....)

Black soil tends to be high in organic matter/humus and so is quite
rich in nutrients to begin with. But it can also contain a lot of
other things and when you say fine but heavy, that may indicate a lot
of clay content.

So in addition to the pH test that Baz recommends - and this will be
an essential pre-requisite to any recommendation as to what to add to
the soil - you need to establish the type of soil. For example, when
wet, if you get a handful and squeeze it, does it stick together like
a muddy ball or does it remain crumbly? If you poor water on it, does
the water drain through or puddle on the top? When it gets dry (as if,
this year) does it set solid and crack or remain malleable?

A little bit more info is needed if you want constructive suggestions;
otherwise all we can offer is best guesses.

Oh and what plants does she want to grow? If she wants to fill the bed
with rhododendrons then suggesting you add a load of lime will be
daft. Many soil improvers will affect the pH one way or the other.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

The first thing is Where is this Garden?
I just get a feeling it's not in the UK.

"Another John" wrote

I'm doing some gardening for a friend. She has raised beds (brick
walls about 30" high). She's complaining about the quality of the soil
in the beds, wants me to remove all plants, dig in "soil improver", and
replace selected plants.

The soil is black and fine, but seems very "heavy" -- perhaps "dense" is
a better word. I'm wondering if it's the type of stuff excavated from
river basins and sold as topsoil: it's a bit like the silt you'll find
beside a river. Naturally my first thought was simply to get bags
of compost and dig it in, but I'm aware that these days there are
several kinds of "soil improver" on the market, so I'd prefer to get
some advice first: I'll need a dozen or more bags to improve the top 6"
of the total area.


By the way, I've haven't done a Ph test, and cannot at the moment
because the job is in another town, about 150 miles away.


I garden on River Thames silt/clay, it has a low pH such that we can grow
blueberries and is very fertile, the clay holding onto nutrients. We have to
apply lots of lime each year to grow brassicas. It's only problem is it does
bed down hard if walked on or after lots of heavy rain but, as I say, it is
fertile. Might be worth getting a full soil test done before you add
anything.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 17:50:45 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



The first thing is Where is this Garden?
I just get a feeling it's not in the UK.

Original message came from a UK-based address. I'm guessing Yorkshire
way.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 26/08/2012 18:59, Jake wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 17:50:45 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



The first thing is Where is this Garden?
I just get a feeling it's not in the UK.

Original message came from a UK-based address. I'm guessing Yorkshire
way.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

Proves my point, Yorkshire.

On 26/08/2012 18:59, Jake wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 17:50:45 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



The first thing is Where is this Garden?
I just get a feeling it's not in the UK.

Original message came from a UK-based address. I'm guessing Yorkshire
way.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

Didn't think Hotmail .com was UK based

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:32:19 +0100, David Hill
wrote:


Didn't think Hotmail .com was UK based

It isn't but then I don't think hotmail.co.uk is uk based either. The
domain extension is immaterial these days. Lots of people I know who
have been with hotmail (idiots) for years have .com email addresses.
The .co.uk extension was introduced comparatively recently.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 26/08/2012 15:27, Another John wrote:
I'm doing some gardening for a friend. She has raised beds (brick
walls about 30" high). She's complaining about the quality of the soil
in the beds, wants me to remove all plants, dig in "soil improver", and
replace selected plants.

The soil is black and fine, but seems very "heavy" -- perhaps "dense" is
a better word. I'm wondering if it's the type of stuff excavated from
river basins and sold as topsoil: it's a bit like the silt you'll find
beside a river. Naturally my first thought was simply to get bags
of compost and dig it in, but I'm aware that these days there are
several kinds of "soil improver" on the market, so I'd prefer to get
some advice first: I'll need a dozen or more bags to improve the top 6"
of the total area.


By the way, I've haven't done a Ph test, and cannot at the moment
because the job is in another town, about 150 miles away.

TIA for any comments,
John


The B&Q own brand Soil Improver is sharp sand!
I regard vermiculite as the only permanent improver because it's a one
off application that changes the structure forever

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

The B&Q own brand Soil Improver is sharp sand!
I regard vermiculite as the only permanent improver because it's a one
off application that changes the structure forever

OP here Hmm - interesting Stuart, but that will surely change the
appearance of the soil too?

Thank you to all for the suggestions and advice. I'll survey the
different options in local garden suppliers, then do a Ph test when we
get to the garden, then shop locally for a suitable supply.

......
Amused to read the exchanges between Jake and David: the garden is near
Hull (and I'm c.150 miles away). The email address I use for Usenet is
the 2nd-most ancient one I possess; I created it when Hotmail was
new-ish, in order to (a) experiment with those new-fangled commercial
email systems and (b) to use as a spam diverter when appropriate
(Usenet used to be a major source for spammers).

J.

On 27/08/2012 09:49, Another John wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

The B&Q own brand Soil Improver is sharp sand!
I regard vermiculite as the only permanent improver because it's a one
off application that changes the structure forever

OP here Hmm - interesting Stuart, but that will surely change the
appearance of the soil too?


A few white flecks here and there. It fractures into minute platelets
that are barely visible

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

I regard vermiculite as the only permanent improver because it's a one
off application that changes the structure forever

OP here Hmm - interesting Stuart, but that will surely change the
appearance of the soil too?

A few white flecks here and there. It fractures into minute platelets
that are barely visible

Thanks: "I was not aware of that."

J.

OP again Sorry I mean to add to Bob Hobden, befo

Bob Hobden wrote:

I garden on River Thames silt/clay, ... Its only problem is it does
bed down hard if walked on or after lots of heavy rain...

That sounds just like the soil in these raised beds that I have to deal
with: thanks.

J.