This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

On 19/09/2012 17:07, Fuschia wrote:

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

Actually it is more what you get if you buy into Monsanto's global
agribusiness monopoly and overuse the same Roundup Ready cash crops
again and again on the same area of land without any rotation break.

It was entirely predictable and was predicted at the outset, but it
didn't stop greedy US farmers from abusing the method aided and abetted
by Monsanto who were delighted to sell both their proprietory seeds and
ever increasing amount of agricultural chemicals.

Similar stupid behaviour occurs elsewhere in the world but this is the
most extreme example. If you only ever use one pesticide you should not
be at all surprised when tolerance builds up over a few years. The only
surprise is more that it has already got out of hand so quickly.

I guess since the patent has now expired on the synthetic route to
glyphosate (LD50 ~5g/kg) they don't mind but it is astonishing to have
to return to something as primitive as 2,4 D (LD50 0.6g/kg).

A WWII era weedkiller and one of the first broadleaf specific ones.

It could be worse - they may well have to use more paraquat too.
(that is an order of magnitude more toxic LD50 0.06g/kg)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 19/09/2012 17:48, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/09/2012 17:07, Fuschia wrote:

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341

Actually it is more what you get if you buy into Monsanto's global
agribusiness monopoly and overuse the same Roundup Ready cash crops
again and again on the same area of land without any rotation break.

It was entirely predictable and was predicted at the outset, but it
didn't stop greedy US farmers from abusing the method aided and abetted
by Monsanto who were delighted to sell both their proprietory seeds and
ever increasing amount of agricultural chemicals.

Similar stupid behaviour occurs elsewhere in the world but this is the
most extreme example. If you only ever use one pesticide you should not
be at all surprised when tolerance builds up over a few years. The only
surprise is more that it has already got out of hand so quickly.

I guess since the patent has now expired on the synthetic route to
glyphosate (LD50 ~5g/kg) they don't mind but it is astonishing to have
to return to something as primitive as 2,4 D (LD50 0.6g/kg).

A WWII era weedkiller and one of the first broadleaf specific ones.

It could be worse - they may well have to use more paraquat too.
(that is an order of magnitude more toxic LD50 0.06g/kg)

Unfortunately Paraquat -- sold as Gramoxone --- has been banned for the
last 3 years or so now

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:49:35 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.

With respect, Bob, that's a little "head in the sand". Some gardeners
use herbicides and pesticides indiscriminately. In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations. Anyone who has ever been
prescribed a course of anti-biotics but got better and didn't complete
the course has contributed to the development of resistant bacteria.
If herbicide resistant weeds develop on the farm next door, they'll be
in your garden soon and will gradually seed down the road, around the
bend, into the next town ......

And of course, the first whiff of a single glyphosate resistant plant
and the EU will ban glyphosate in a forlorn effort to stop the
"problem" getting worse.

I worry about genetic modification. No-one (yet) knows how tall a
Leylandii will eventually grow! No-one knows how future generations
spawned from today's genetically modified plants will evolve.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

On 19/09/2012 18:46, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:14:26 +0100, Jake
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:49:35 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Fuschia" wrote ..

This is what happens when you rely on GM crops and glyphosate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19585341


Very interesting article and like bacteria becoming resistant to drugs I
suppose it was obviously going to happen. Hardly affects us gardeners though
when we just use it on Bindweed or whatever only when necessary.

With respect, Bob, that's a little "head in the sand". Some gardeners
use herbicides and pesticides indiscriminately. In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.

Anyone who has ever been
prescribed a course of anti-biotics but got better and didn't complete
the course has contributed to the development of resistant bacteria.
If herbicide resistant weeds develop on the farm next door, they'll be
in your garden soon and will gradually seed down the road, around the
bend, into the next town ......

UK and France over used antibiotics.
The Netherlands were and still are very sparing in the use of
antibiotics.
The problem of disease resistant bacteria is the same in all three
countries.

And of course, the first whiff of a single glyphosate resistant plant
and the EU will ban glyphosate in a forlorn effort to stop the
"problem" getting worse.


Just remember that we take in more antibiotics in our meat than we get
from the Dr.

On 09/20/2012 10:52 AM, Martin wrote:
Just remember that we take in more antibiotics in our meat than we get
from the Dr.

Especially in the Netherlands.

Very easy to avoid in France though. Many butchers follow the supply
line closely and can guarantee grass fed, minimum intervention beef.
All bets are off if you buy from a big supermarket though.

BTW after a big push around 10 yrs ago antibiotics are much less
prescribed here. It's true they used to be handed out for every cold
and sniffle.

Emery Davis wrote in
:

On 09/20/2012 10:52 AM, Martin wrote:
Just remember that we take in more antibiotics in our meat than we
get
from the Dr.

Especially in the Netherlands.

Very easy to avoid in France though. Many butchers follow the supply
line closely and can guarantee grass fed, minimum intervention beef.
All bets are off if you buy from a big supermarket though.

BTW after a big push around 10 yrs ago antibiotics are much less
prescribed here. It's true they used to be handed out for every cold
and sniffle.


Yes, and I think it's true that once a patient feels a bit better, the
antibiotics are neglected and kept and then used again. I know I have
done that. No doctor has advised me otherwise. Ever. We simply did not
know the damage. Did the doctor? No! Or at least never told us. There is
the problem. Ignorance. By both patient and GP. We are supposed to trust
our GP with our lives...

Baz

In article , Martin
writes
In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.

Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to
colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the
causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)
variables.

--
regards andyw

You all seem to be missing the irony in this, the fact that the weeds have achieved, in a short period of time, all by themselves, what took Monsanto's scientists years of research and vast sums of money to do.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:17:35 +0000, Granity
wrote:


news;969166 Wrote:
In article , Martin
lid writes--
In agriculture,
intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,
for example, the decrease in bee populations.-

NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.-

Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to

colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the
causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)
variables.

--
regards andyw

You all seem to be missing the irony in this, the fact that the weeds
have achieved, in a short period of time, all by themselves, what took
Monsanto's scientists years of research and vast sums of money to do.

Nature always wins in the end, and we tamper with it at our peril

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:12:12 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
In article , Martin

writes

In agriculture,

intensive methodologies often involve heavy use of chemicals, hence,

for example, the decrease in bee populations.



NOT. It was caused by a parasite that transmits a virus to the bees.



Far too simple. Varroa and other mites can be a contributory factor to

colony collapse but they are not THE cause. As with many things, the

causes are a collection of environmental (in its widest sense)

variables...


And of course if farmers spray millions of gallons of insecticides on their fields, they cannot be surprised when insects are killed in their billions.

Bees are insects.

On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 18:45:47 UTC+1, Martin wrote:


UK and France over used antibiotics.

The Netherlands were and still are very sparing in the use of

antibiotics.

The problem of disease resistant bacteria is the same in all three

countries.

Of course, they share borders and the same strain of drug resistant bacteria will be found in all 3 countries. Does not matter if one country does not overuse drugs, it will pick up the newer and stronger bacteria.

DanP

In article , Martin
writes
The parasite is only one cause.

If you google you will find that it has been identified as the main
cause.

But if you talk to bee experts (and many bee keepers) you get a
different picture from google.

It seems most likely that varroa itself wouldn't cause anything like the
problems that have been seen. However, bad infestations can weaken a
hive to the extent that other environmental factors (that also in
themselves wouldn't cause collapse) can tip colonies over the edge to
collapse.

It really is fascinating stuff (as are bee colonies in general).

--
regards andyw

On Friday, September 21, 2012 11:17:49 AM UTC+1, news wrote:
In article , Martin

writes

The parasite is only one cause.



If you google you will find that it has been identified as the main

cause.



But if you talk to bee experts (and many bee keepers) you get a

different picture from google.



It seems most likely that varroa itself wouldn't cause anything like the

problems that have been seen. However, bad infestations can weaken a

hive to the extent that other environmental factors (that also in

themselves wouldn't cause collapse) can tip colonies over the edge to

collapse.



It really is fascinating stuff (as are bee colonies in general).



--

regards andyw

Well it would seem that the wheels of government are cranking slowly into action on this issue.


It is amazing how profit-motivated people will do virtually nothing about environmental destruction until it is virtually too late. Only when their incomes are affected to they take any notice of the warning signs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ry?INTCMP=SRCH