About 20 years ago I bought a full-size stainless steel spade (made by
Griffin). It hasn't had a great amount of use.

Today I was trying to dig up an old variegated Euonymus. Its roots were
somewhat entangled with those of a 30-years old Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
'Ellwoodii' (which was cut down on Friday). I got half the Euonymus
roots cut through, then using one of the Ellwoodii roots as a lever
point, pushed down as hard as I could on the spade. There was a loud
crack, and something gave. I thought the plastic handle of the spade
had broken, but it was fine. The Euonymus was still in the ground.
Pulling out the spade, I was amazed to find that the blade had split
horizontally about 3/4 of the way across, an inch or two below where it
became the shaft.

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having
split, why didn't it split all the way across?

Anyone had a similar experience?

--

Jeff

On 19/11/2012 18:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
About 20 years ago I bought a full-size stainless steel spade (made by
Griffin). It hasn't had a great amount of use.

Today I was trying to dig up an old variegated Euonymus. Its roots were
somewhat entangled with those of a 30-years old Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
'Ellwoodii' (which was cut down on Friday). I got half the Euonymus
roots cut through, then using one of the Ellwoodii roots as a lever
point, pushed down as hard as I could on the spade. There was a loud
crack, and something gave. I thought the plastic handle of the spade had
broken, but it was fine. The Euonymus was still in the ground. Pulling
out the spade, I was amazed to find that the blade had split
horizontally about 3/4 of the way across, an inch or two below where it
became the shaft.

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having split,
why didn't it split all the way across?

Anyone had a similar experience?




Almost. I once used a 'Neverbend' fork from Woolworths (not their
brand, though) and attempted to remove roots from some form of
Cuppressus. Unknowingly, I had inserted the fork below a buried stone
slab ... 'Neverbends' never bend .. they snap.

Since I was a 7.5 stone weakling at the time, I took it back to Woolies
and was given a replacement. I blush to think of it now, but I couldn't
afford to replace it then.

Can't explain your stainless steel break, though, unless there was a
latent metal weakness from manufacture. It's undoubtedly out of its
guarantee period, so looks like you'll have to spend some dosh. What a
shame.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:43:42 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

About 20 years ago I bought a full-size stainless steel spade (made by
Griffin). It hasn't had a great amount of use.

Today I was trying to dig up an old variegated Euonymus. Its roots were
somewhat entangled with those of a 30-years old Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
'Ellwoodii' (which was cut down on Friday). I got half the Euonymus
roots cut through, then using one of the Ellwoodii roots as a lever
point, pushed down as hard as I could on the spade. There was a loud
crack, and something gave. I thought the plastic handle of the spade
had broken, but it was fine. The Euonymus was still in the ground.
Pulling out the spade, I was amazed to find that the blade had split
horizontally about 3/4 of the way across, an inch or two below where it
became the shaft.

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having
split, why didn't it split all the way across?

Anyone had a similar experience?

When I first moved here, 21ish years ago, a friend bought me a set of
stainless steel spade and fork as a housewarming present. Cannot
remember the brand now save that it was a quality one. The spade blade
snapped like yours within a few months and the fork tines buckled even
more quickly. The friend returned them and got a refund (bought me
something else). I went out and bought a cheap set from somewhere;
paid little more than a fiver for the pair. I still have them though
the fork tines are a little bent.

Conversely, I've gone through 3 sets of stainless steel spades and
forks - spades snap, fork tines bend too easily.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
About 20 years ago I bought a full-size stainless steel spade (made by
Griffin). It hasn't had a great amount of use.

Today I was trying to dig up an old variegated Euonymus. Its roots were
somewhat entangled with those of a 30-years old Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
'Ellwoodii' (which was cut down on Friday). I got half the Euonymus roots
cut through, then using one of the Ellwoodii roots as a lever point,
pushed down as hard as I could on the spade. There was a loud crack, and
something gave. I thought the plastic handle of the spade had broken,
but it was fine. The Euonymus was still in the ground. Pulling out the
spade, I was amazed to find that the blade had split horizontally about
3/4 of the way across, an inch or two below where it became the shaft.

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having split,
why didn't it split all the way across?


Stainless isn't brittle like cast iron, it won't shatter into pieces, but it
will (depending on the grade) crack or break rather than bend. As to why it
stopped when it did, that's probably as far as the crack had got when you
eased off and removed the force.

Steve

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message ...

About 20 years ago I bought a full-size stainless steel spade (made by
Griffin). It hasn't had a great amount of use.

Today I was trying to dig up an old variegated Euonymus. Its roots were
somewhat entangled with those of a 30-years old Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
'Ellwoodii' (which was cut down on Friday). I got half the Euonymus roots
cut through, then using one of the Ellwoodii roots as a lever point, pushed
down as hard as I could on the spade. There was a loud crack, and
something gave. I thought the plastic handle of the spade had broken, but
it was fine. The Euonymus was still in the ground. Pulling out the spade,
I was amazed to find that the blade had split horizontally about 3/4 of the
way across, an inch or two below where it became the shaft.

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having split,
why didn't it split all the way across?

Probably due to metal fatigue. It's like breaking a piece of wire by bending
it back and forth several time until it breaks!
You have probably unknowingly bent it at that point many times before and it
bent back. This time it didn't:-)

Mike

In article ,
Muddymike wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message ...

How could this happen? Stainless steel isn't brittle, and having split,
why didn't it split all the way across?

Probably due to metal fatigue. It's like breaking a piece of wire by bending
it back and forth several time until it breaks!
You have probably unknowingly bent it at that point many times before and it
bent back. This time it didn't:-)

And, actually, most stainless and high-tensile steels ARE brittle
compared to most mild steels. They will get fatigue first rather
than work-hardening, which is what the latter usually does.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

wrote:

In article ,

Probably due to metal fatigue. It's like breaking a piece of wire by bending
it back and forth several time until it breaks!
You have probably unknowingly bent it at that point many times before and it
bent back. This time it didn't:-)

And, actually, most stainless and high-tensile steels ARE brittle
compared to most mild steels. They will get fatigue first rather
than work-hardening, which is what the latter usually does.

Indeed. There was a time, when standard car exhausts were a lot
less durable than they now seem to be, that stainless steel
replacements were available, at a price, with warranty for as
long as you owned the vehicle.

The small print laid down conditions relating to the state of the
engine mounts. If there was a failure, it hadn't corroded, but
had simply been shaken apart.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 19/11/2012 18:43, Jeff Layman wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Most interesting to see others know of
problems, too.

I probably will get another SS spade, but won't push it beyond its
limits this time!

--

Jeff

Chris J Dixon wrote in
:

wrote:

In article ,

Probably due to metal fatigue. It's like breaking a piece of wire by
bending it back and forth several time until it breaks!
You have probably unknowingly bent it at that point many times before
and it bent back. This time it didn't:-)

And, actually, most stainless and high-tensile steels ARE brittle
compared to most mild steels. They will get fatigue first rather
than work-hardening, which is what the latter usually does.

Indeed. There was a time, when standard car exhausts were a lot
less durable than they now seem to be, that stainless steel
replacements were available, at a price, with warranty for as
long as you owned the vehicle.

The small print laid down conditions relating to the state of the
engine mounts. If there was a failure, it hadn't corroded, but
had simply been shaken apart.

Chris

I remember my dad buying a ss exhaust for his Triumph Dolmite in the 80's.
What a mistake. It cracked every time after numerous replacements. In the
end he reverted back to the origional mild steel type.

Baz

Jeff Layman wrote in news:k8gia3$jqb$2
@news.albasani.net:

On 19/11/2012 18:43, Jeff Layman wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Most interesting to see others know of
problems, too.

I probably will get another SS spade, but won't push it beyond its
limits this time!


I would not be without my Spear & Jackson all metal spade.

http://tinyurl.com/7dbdces

I have used it as a crowbar to take out large tree roots and bounced on it
with all my weight. The best garden tool I ever bought. You will NEVER
break it.

Baz

Martin wrote in
news

I remember my dad buying a ss exhaust for his Triumph Dolmite in the
80's. What a mistake. It cracked every time after numerous
replacements. In the end he reverted back to the origional mild steel
type.

I bought one from Kwikfit in Ramsgate in 1983 after a holiday of
having a normal exhaust welded and repeatedly breaking on a near new
Ford Escort. It all started with a Hovercraft crossing on a nice
sunny day. The first guy who welded it, in Dover, told me that he had
lots of broken exhausts on cars that had been on the Hovercraft. We
had it welded again at a motorway service place near Malmsbury on the
M4 and then again in Padstow. In Ramsgate we decided to buy a new
exhaust and the guy sold us a stainless steel exhaust for the price of
a normal steel exhaust. It was still OK when we traded the car in two
years later.

Two very different experiences. Possibly differences with engine mounts and
gearbox? Ford used to use a differential(rear drive) and Triumph used front
wheel drive on later models. A bit like Morris, Austin and later, British
Leyland did back then, engine and gearbox as one unit and all of them now
do that.This doesn't explain why a rear drive SS would be working and not
cracking. But I would bet that all the research would have been front wheel
drive later on.

Baz

Two very different experiences. Possibly differences with engine mounts
and
gearbox? Ford used to use a differential(rear drive) and Triumph used
front
wheel drive on later models. A bit like Morris, Austin and later, British
Leyland did back then, engine and gearbox as one unit and all of them now
do that.This doesn't explain why a rear drive SS would be working and not
cracking. But I would bet that all the research would have been front
wheel
drive later on.


I did a lot of repairs on 70s cars which had recently had new exhausts, and
then started making jangling noises. They were almost always caused by
exhaust places undoing the clamps holding the exhaust, and pushing the new
one into the clamps without resetting the clamp at the other end where it
joined the gearbox, body, or whatever it was mounted to. The resulting
strain caused the clamps to break, but I hardly ever saw one where the
exhaust itself was failed. The subsequent change to exhausts hanging on
rubber mounts stopped the problem.

Steve

"shazzbat" wrote in
:


Two very different experiences. Possibly differences with engine
mounts and
gearbox? Ford used to use a differential(rear drive) and Triumph used
front
wheel drive on later models. A bit like Morris, Austin and later,
British Leyland did back then, engine and gearbox as one unit and all
of them now do that.This doesn't explain why a rear drive SS would be
working and not cracking. But I would bet that all the research would
have been front wheel
drive later on.


I did a lot of repairs on 70s cars which had recently had new
exhausts, and then started making jangling noises. They were almost
always caused by exhaust places undoing the clamps holding the
exhaust, and pushing the new one into the clamps without resetting the
clamp at the other end where it joined the gearbox, body, or whatever
it was mounted to. The resulting strain caused the clamps to break,
but I hardly ever saw one where the exhaust itself was failed. The
subsequent change to exhausts hanging on rubber mounts stopped the
problem.

Steve



True enough, shazzbat.
Do you mean this bit? --- Joining manifold to the downpipe?
Sorry about the diagram.
The old jointing compound should always be removed from the manifold, but
seldom done by so called exhaust centres. The old crusty remains would
allow the exhaust to blow at that point and subsequent joins will start to
disintegrate because of constant pulling the joints apart and vibration at
manifold to downpipe.
That will cause rubber engine mounts to lose their elasticity and the
driver would notice that the gear stick is all over the place. Difficulty
selecting gears. When revs are applied the stick moves upwards.
In that case the torque stay is the first and easiest to renew.
This is from my own experience, trial and error. Not an expert opinion,

Baz

I did a lot of repairs on 70s cars which had recently had new
exhausts, and then started making jangling noises. They were almost
always caused by exhaust places undoing the clamps holding the
exhaust, and pushing the new one into the clamps without resetting the
clamp at the other end where it joined the gearbox, body, or whatever
it was mounted to. The resulting strain caused the clamps to break,
but I hardly ever saw one where the exhaust itself was failed. The
subsequent change to exhausts hanging on rubber mounts stopped the
problem.

Steve



True enough, shazzbat.
Do you mean this bit? --- Joining manifold to the downpipe?
Sorry about the diagram.
The old jointing compound should always be removed from the manifold, but
seldom done by so called exhaust centres. The old crusty remains would
allow the exhaust to blow at that point and subsequent joins will start to
disintegrate because of constant pulling the joints apart and vibration at
manifold to downpipe.

Not exactly, but I take your point. The thing I meant was where a metal
strip would be fixed to a bolt on the gearbox or crossmember etc. The other
end of it would have two holes for the ends of a U bolt which went round the
exhaust. Even with dealer parts, there would always be a slight difference
in the exhaust. If the fitter took the old exhaust off by removing the U
bolt, then offered up the new pipe, it wouldn't quite line up. The fitter
would then get a mate to push the pipe up or down so he could get the ends
of the bolt through the holes, then put the nuts on. What they should have
done was to slacken off the bolt at the other end of the strap, and allow it
to move so it was just touching the pipe, and the U bolt could then be
fitted wihout any strain, then re-tighten the bolt and the nuts on the U
bolt.

That will cause rubber engine mounts to lose their elasticity and the
driver would notice that the gear stick is all over the place. Difficulty
selecting gears. When revs are applied the stick moves upwards.
In that case the torque stay is the first and easiest to renew.
This is from my own experience, trial and error. Not an expert opinion,

I think that last may be a bit much to blame on an exhaust prob, other
issues at work there.


Steve

Hi Jeff, During my years as a landscape gardener here in Cornwall, obviously we moved alot of big shrubs and dug out alot of old big plants. I got my local blacksmith the weld a steel scaffold pole (as a handle) onto a very nice 'old type' Spear and Jackson stainless steel spade head. It was incredibly heavy but that assisted the cutting of roots etc. The most important thing was to keep the blade as sharp as possible using a file. Eventually, after many years use the head got shorter until time came to replace it. The first 'new' stainless steel head i had welded on was totally useless as it bent under minimum pressure !!. (and seemed very soft when it was being sharpened) The second (and third) snapped as yours did very quickly due to I think the poor quality of the steel !!! So eventually after scouring car boot sales, I found another 'old style' head similar in quality to the original which i now treasure. So I think there are stainless steel heads of either bad temper (which snap) and some which are very soft (which bend). Another thing that Ive noticed is the good types have a much more concave shape to the head thus giving them the extra strength when under extreme pressure. The softer and poorer types tend to be 'flatter', which is why I think they bend !!
Regards, Lannerman.