http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career


I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early retirement/redundancy
from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS Wisley into employing him (
I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good you can look me in the eye and tell
me to leave) became second wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior
gardener in fruit.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 02/12/2013 18:41, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career

I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early retirement/redundancy
from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS Wisley into employing him (
I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good you can look me in the eye and tell
me to leave) became second wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior
gardener in fruit.

Senior gardener in fruit??? He must have flowered particularly well
this summer! :-)

--

Jeff

On 2013-12-02 18:41:17 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career


I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS
Wisley into employing him ( I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good
you can look me in the eye and tell me to leave) became second
wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior gardener in fruit.


Because they're trying to get young people, school leavers, into
gardening, I suppose? You may have heard the young gardener whose
school master told him that if the 'didn't pull his socks up', he'd end
up as a bin man or a gardener. And he said "I'd love to be a
gardener"! And now he is. Horticulture suffers from this image of it
as a 'last resort', rather than a real career. All power to your
friend and congrats for having the courage to make such a profound
change in his life but this is about school leavers and raising
horticulture from some kind of Cinderella position in last-chance job
saloons to a specific career choice, And may I say that there are some
high-profile garden experts who encourage that, even if unconsciously -
Alan Titchmarsh, Christine Walkden, Toby Buckland, Roy Lancaster,
spring to my mind. All have a thorough grounding in horticulture, not
a come-to-it-late-in-life amateur enthusiasm and really know plants,
soil, gardening. We need young people in the industry who have made a
career choice, not a "my careers teacher says I'm no good for anything
else". The skill in real gardening, real plant raising is enormous and
it needs to be recognised as such in career programmes for school
leavers.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 02/12/2013 19:44, sacha wrote:
On 2013-12-02 18:41:17 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career



I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS
Wisley into employing him ( I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good
you can look me in the eye and tell me to leave) became second
wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior gardener in fruit.


Because they're trying to get young people, school leavers, into
gardening, I suppose? You may have heard the young gardener whose
school master told him that if the 'didn't pull his socks up', he'd end
up as a bin man or a gardener. And he said "I'd love to be a
gardener"! And now he is. Horticulture suffers from this image of it
as a 'last resort', rather than a real career. All power to your
friend and congrats for having the courage to make such a profound
change in his life but this is about school leavers and raising
horticulture from some kind of Cinderella position in last-chance job
saloons to a specific career choice, And may I say that there are some
high-profile garden experts who encourage that, even if unconsciously -
Alan Titchmarsh, Christine Walkden, Toby Buckland, Roy Lancaster, spring
to my mind. All have a thorough grounding in horticulture, not a
come-to-it-late-in-life amateur enthusiasm and really know plants, soil,
gardening. We need young people in the industry who have made a career
choice, not a "my careers teacher says I'm no good for anything else".
The skill in real gardening, real plant raising is enormous and it needs
to be recognised as such in career programmes for school leavers.


Oh Come on Sacha,
Everyone knows that as long as you can push a wheel barrow and use a
broom you can be a gardener if you can use a spade and a hoe then you
are really skilled.
The real problem is that in the UK the "Work Ethic" has almost vanished,
which is why we have so many workers from Eastern Europe now working in
British Horticulture.
The Average Brit would rather sit on his/her backside and do sweet FA.
A few years in further education and Uni and they are much to good to
work with their hands
It's time that Career advisers or vocational guidance advisers or what
ever they call themselves learned just what is available and required in
today's employment market, and schools/colleges got away from the
thinking that 70% of pupils going on to Uni then being largely
unemployed/ unemployable is better that having the same numbers in work.
I can teach a totally blind person to travel with a cane in a busy City
Centre and to cross roads, but I can't have a modern apprentice do any
work, such as water plants with a hose pipe unsupervised for 2 years.
Crazy

David @ a still dry side of Swansea Bay

On 2013-12-02 20:14:05 +0000, David Hill said:

On 02/12/2013 19:44, sacha wrote:
On 2013-12-02 18:41:17 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career



I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS
Wisley into employing him ( I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good
you can look me in the eye and tell me to leave) became second
wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior gardener in fruit.


Because they're trying to get young people, school leavers, into
gardening, I suppose? You may have heard the young gardener whose
school master told him that if the 'didn't pull his socks up', he'd end
up as a bin man or a gardener. And he said "I'd love to be a
gardener"! And now he is. Horticulture suffers from this image of it
as a 'last resort', rather than a real career. All power to your
friend and congrats for having the courage to make such a profound
change in his life but this is about school leavers and raising
horticulture from some kind of Cinderella position in last-chance job
saloons to a specific career choice, And may I say that there are some
high-profile garden experts who encourage that, even if unconsciously -
Alan Titchmarsh, Christine Walkden, Toby Buckland, Roy Lancaster, spring
to my mind. All have a thorough grounding in horticulture, not a
come-to-it-late-in-life amateur enthusiasm and really know plants, soil,
gardening. We need young people in the industry who have made a career
choice, not a "my careers teacher says I'm no good for anything else".
The skill in real gardening, real plant raising is enormous and it needs
to be recognised as such in career programmes for school leavers.


Oh Come on Sacha,
Everyone knows that as long as you can push a wheel barrow and use a
broom you can be a gardener if you can use a spade and a hoe then you
are really skilled.
The real problem is that in the UK the "Work Ethic" has almost
vanished, which is why we have so many workers from Eastern Europe now
working in British Horticulture.
The Average Brit would rather sit on his/her backside and do sweet FA.
A few years in further education and Uni and they are much to good to
work with their hands
It's time that Career advisers or vocational guidance advisers or what
ever they call themselves learned just what is available and required
in today's employment market, and schools/colleges got away from the
thinking that 70% of pupils going on to Uni then being largely
unemployed/ unemployable is better that having the same numbers in work.
I can teach a totally blind person to travel with a cane in a busy City
Centre and to cross roads, but I can't have a modern apprentice do any
work, such as water plants with a hose pipe unsupervised for 2 years.
Crazy

David @ a still dry side of Swansea Bay

Yes, it's a question of rods for backs there. We know of someone who
started working in a bank (iirc), thought it was a dead end job and
trained to be an electrician. He is now never out of work and must be
taking home a small fortune. It was a good system when each tradesman
had a 'boy' working beside him and learning a trade. I wish we had the
old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.
I can't help wondering if there wouldn't be more people keen and eager
to learn and remain in steady and lucrative work.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message ...

On 2013-12-02 20:14:05 +0000, David Hill said:

On 02/12/2013 19:44, sacha wrote:
On 2013-12-02 18:41:17 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career



I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS
Wisley into employing him ( I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good
you can look me in the eye and tell me to leave) became second
wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior gardener in fruit.


Because they're trying to get young people, school leavers, into
gardening, I suppose? You may have heard the young gardener whose
school master told him that if the 'didn't pull his socks up', he'd end
up as a bin man or a gardener. And he said "I'd love to be a
gardener"! And now he is. Horticulture suffers from this image of it
as a 'last resort', rather than a real career. All power to your
friend and congrats for having the courage to make such a profound
change in his life but this is about school leavers and raising
horticulture from some kind of Cinderella position in last-chance job
saloons to a specific career choice, And may I say that there are some
high-profile garden experts who encourage that, even if unconsciously -
Alan Titchmarsh, Christine Walkden, Toby Buckland, Roy Lancaster, spring
to my mind. All have a thorough grounding in horticulture, not a
come-to-it-late-in-life amateur enthusiasm and really know plants, soil,
gardening. We need young people in the industry who have made a career
choice, not a "my careers teacher says I'm no good for anything else".
The skill in real gardening, real plant raising is enormous and it needs
to be recognised as such in career programmes for school leavers.


Oh Come on Sacha,
Everyone knows that as long as you can push a wheel barrow and use a broom
you can be a gardener if you can use a spade and a hoe then you are really
skilled.
The real problem is that in the UK the "Work Ethic" has almost vanished,
which is why we have so many workers from Eastern Europe now working in
British Horticulture.
The Average Brit would rather sit on his/her backside and do sweet FA.
A few years in further education and Uni and they are much to good to work
with their hands
It's time that Career advisers or vocational guidance advisers or what
ever they call themselves learned just what is available and required in
today's employment market, and schools/colleges got away from the thinking
that 70% of pupils going on to Uni then being largely unemployed/
unemployable is better that having the same numbers in work.
I can teach a totally blind person to travel with a cane in a busy City
Centre and to cross roads, but I can't have a modern apprentice do any
work, such as water plants with a hose pipe unsupervised for 2 years.
Crazy

David @ a still dry side of Swansea Bay

Yes, it's a question of rods for backs there. We know of someone who
started working in a bank (iirc), thought it was a dead end job and
trained to be an electrician. He is now never out of work and must be
taking home a small fortune. It was a good system when each tradesman
had a 'boy' working beside him and learning a trade. I wish we had the
old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.
I can't help wondering if there wouldn't be more people keen and eager
to learn and remain in steady and lucrative work.
--

Sacha

.................................................. ...............

Well I thought it was country wide, but judging by the above post,
apparently not. Here on the Isle of Wight we have what are called
'Apprentices' with 4 systems to oversee that they are getting the right
training. Any trade or 'hands on' profession from gardening to hotels and
from engineering to hairdressing. Proper systems with a great ceremony at
the end where all those who qualified are presented with their
qualification. I was invited to the one this year and it certainly is a
superb system, very much like the one we had 50 odd years ago when I did my
Apprenticeship.

Perhaps the rest of the country could learn something from the Isle of
Wight.

Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk











www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"'Mike'" wrote in message ...

"Sacha" wrote in message ...

On 2013-12-02 20:14:05 +0000, David Hill said:

On 02/12/2013 19:44, sacha wrote:
On 2013-12-02 18:41:17 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career



I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS
Wisley into employing him ( I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good
you can look me in the eye and tell me to leave) became second
wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a senior gardener in fruit.


Because they're trying to get young people, school leavers, into
gardening, I suppose? You may have heard the young gardener whose
school master told him that if the 'didn't pull his socks up', he'd end
up as a bin man or a gardener. And he said "I'd love to be a
gardener"! And now he is. Horticulture suffers from this image of it
as a 'last resort', rather than a real career. All power to your
friend and congrats for having the courage to make such a profound
change in his life but this is about school leavers and raising
horticulture from some kind of Cinderella position in last-chance job
saloons to a specific career choice, And may I say that there are some
high-profile garden experts who encourage that, even if unconsciously -
Alan Titchmarsh, Christine Walkden, Toby Buckland, Roy Lancaster, spring
to my mind. All have a thorough grounding in horticulture, not a
come-to-it-late-in-life amateur enthusiasm and really know plants, soil,
gardening. We need young people in the industry who have made a career
choice, not a "my careers teacher says I'm no good for anything else".
The skill in real gardening, real plant raising is enormous and it needs
to be recognised as such in career programmes for school leavers.


Oh Come on Sacha,
Everyone knows that as long as you can push a wheel barrow and use a broom
you can be a gardener if you can use a spade and a hoe then you are really
skilled.
The real problem is that in the UK the "Work Ethic" has almost vanished,
which is why we have so many workers from Eastern Europe now working in
British Horticulture.
The Average Brit would rather sit on his/her backside and do sweet FA.
A few years in further education and Uni and they are much to good to work
with their hands
It's time that Career advisers or vocational guidance advisers or what
ever they call themselves learned just what is available and required in
today's employment market, and schools/colleges got away from the thinking
that 70% of pupils going on to Uni then being largely unemployed/
unemployable is better that having the same numbers in work.
I can teach a totally blind person to travel with a cane in a busy City
Centre and to cross roads, but I can't have a modern apprentice do any
work, such as water plants with a hose pipe unsupervised for 2 years.
Crazy

David @ a still dry side of Swansea Bay

Yes, it's a question of rods for backs there. We know of someone who
started working in a bank (iirc), thought it was a dead end job and
trained to be an electrician. He is now never out of work and must be
taking home a small fortune. It was a good system when each tradesman
had a 'boy' working beside him and learning a trade. I wish we had the
old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.
I can't help wondering if there wouldn't be more people keen and eager
to learn and remain in steady and lucrative work.
--

Sacha

.................................................. ...............

Well I thought it was country wide, but judging by the above post,
apparently not. Here on the Isle of Wight we have what are called
'Apprentices' with 4 systems to oversee that they are getting the right
training. Any trade or 'hands on' profession from gardening to hotels and
from engineering to hairdressing. Proper systems with a great ceremony at
the end where all those who qualified are presented with their
qualification. I was invited to the one this year and it certainly is a
superb system, very much like the one we had 50 odd years ago when I did my
Apprenticeship.

Perhaps the rest of the country could learn something from the Isle of
Wight.

Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/ty...ticeships.aspx

Country wide!!

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk










www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
says...
Well I thought it was country wide,

Of course it is.

but judging by the above post,
apparently not. Here on the Isle of Wight we have what are called
'Apprentices' with 4 systems to oversee that they are getting the right
training. Any trade or 'hands on' profession from gardening to hotels and
from engineering to hairdressing. Proper systems with a great ceremony at
the end where all those who qualified are presented with their
qualification. I was invited to the one this year and it certainly is a
superb system, very much like the one we had 50 odd years ago when I did my
Apprenticeship.

Perhaps the rest of the country could learn something from the Isle of
Wight.

Of course, it is countrywide.

Janet.

In article ,
says...
I wish we had the

old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.

You just haven't a clue about career training; that's exactly what
countless local FE colleges and UTC's provide. Most apprentices and
young trainees attend college to obtain the technical accreditations
required these days. Employers get govt funding to take on trainees.
Colleges also arrange work placements.

http://www.cityandguilds.com/Courses-and-Qualifications

http://www.utcolleges.org/


It's mere months since you were berating the RHS for not encouraging
young career gardeners.. based on your equal ignorance of what the RHS
does.

Janet.

"Jeff Layman" wrote

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Sacha" wrote

http://www.rhs.org.uk/News/Success-s...culture-career

I wonder why they don't mention my friend, took early
retirement/redundancy
from being a Bank Manager at 47 and talked RHS Wisley into employing him
(
I'll work 7 days free and if I'm no good you can look me in the eye and
tell
me to leave) became second wheelbarrow man, his words, and is now a
senior
gardener in fruit.

Senior gardener in fruit??? He must have flowered particularly well this
summer! :-)


Yes, OK.
The RHS still use the old system where they have gardeners for the Fruit
Department, gardeners for the Borders Dept, the Hedging Team, the Grass
Cutting Team, the Glasshouse gardeners, etc and hardly ever any movement
between these teams.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 2013-12-03 13:32:08 +0000, Janet said:

In article ,
says...
I wish we had the

old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.

You just haven't a clue about career training; that's exactly what
countless local FE colleges and UTC's provide. Most apprentices and
young trainees attend college to obtain the technical accreditations
required these days. Employers get govt funding to take on trainees.
Colleges also arrange work placements.

http://www.cityandguilds.com/Courses-and-Qualifications

http://www.utcolleges.org/


It's mere months since you were berating the RHS for not encouraging
young career gardeners.. based on your equal ignorance of what the RHS
does.

Janet.



Yup. Being married to a nurseryman will do that to a person. We have
had young people working in our Tea Room who are attending South Devon
College during the week but rarely, full time, at present. I asked Ray
about HIS understanding of what Technical Colleges were. To him, these
were Colleges *all* over the country which were full time education for
those who didn't want to take O levels and A levels. Some had night
classes so that the youngsters attending them could work during the
day, learning by doing, as well. I was not talking about 44 (?)
colleges in England and Wales that are sponsored by businesses or in
some cases, universities and offer part-time courses, admirable though
the aims of those may be.

I am talking about what used to be available easily to all and what I
hope these new colleges will replace, in all areas, as part of the
mainstream education system. I am perfectly willing to admit that none
of my family has used these but during the few years I was at school
here in my youth, there were children I knew or knew of, who made a
conscious decision to take another branch in the road towards a career
but one that was full time and was state funded, not a matter of luck
as to whether one is available in a particular area. Every large town
or city had one. Even the PM has called for the establishment of the
new-style Tech Colleges all over the country "in every single major
town". THAT is what is needed to replace what has been lost and to
which I was referring, not what we have at present even though it's a
laudable beginning.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

In article ,
says...

On 2013-12-03 13:32:08 +0000, Janet said:

In article ,
says...
I wish we had the

old 'technical colleges' for those who didn't want to go on to
University but did want to make a career that didn't require a degree.

You just haven't a clue about career training; that's exactly what
countless local FE colleges and UTC's provide. Most apprentices and
young trainees attend college to obtain the technical accreditations
required these days. Employers get govt funding to take on trainees.
Colleges also arrange work placements.

http://www.cityandguilds.com/Courses-and-Qualifications

http://www.utcolleges.org/

I was not talking about 44 (?)
colleges in England and Wales that are sponsored by businesses or in
some cases, universities and offer part-time courses, admirable though
the aims of those may be.

UTC's are state schools for pupils aged 14-19 funded by the taxpayer,
non-selective, free to attend and not controlled by a local authority.

CTC's or City Technology Colleges, are a state-funded all-ability
secondary school that charges no fees, most now converted to
Academies, statefunded no-fee secondary schools (there are over 3,000 in
England).

FE colleges offer trades and vocational training from 16 +. Most
kids under 23 on their first non-degree FE training after secondary
school, will get free training. Those under 19 get financial support to
cover travel, materials etc. Since every kid in England who wants one is
guaranteed an FE training place, most towns have at least one FE
college.

The older the student, the more likely it is that their vocational
training will be split between college and either work experience
placement or employment.. whether they are training in book-keeping or
butchery.

I am talking about what used to be available easily to all

It still is. This IS mainstream, state funded, free to the pupil
education and vocational training.

I am perfectly willing to admit that none
of my family has used thes


but during the few years I was at school
here in my youth, there were children I knew or knew of, who made a
conscious decision to take another branch in the road towards a career
but one that was full time and was state funded,

JUST LIKE NOW, and still available nationwide.

Janet.

Yes, Janet's right. Post GCSE, kids now have the choice between staying on into 6th form and doing A levels, or moving to a further education college, where they can still do A-levels but also a whole host of other qualifications, HNDs, BTecs, NVQs, and some will even do Foundation degrees. Very much the situation when I was growing up (except that the range of qualifications has expanded).

On 2013-12-03 22:11:13 +0000, kay said:

Janet;996053 Wrote:


JUST LIKE NOW, and still available nationwide.

Janet.

Yes, Janet's right. Post GCSE, kids now have the choice between staying
on into 6th form and doing A levels, or moving to a further education
college, where they can still do A-levels but also a whole host of other
qualifications, HNDs, BTecs, NVQs, and some will even do Foundation
degrees. Very much the situation when I was growing up (except that the
range of qualifications has expanded).

I know that these possibilities exist. It's the quantity of colleges
that needs improving.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk