Looking to put in raised beds (of varying height 200mm to 450mm to break
them up a bit) it's taken me more than a decade to come up with this
cunning plan, so I'm hoping not to hear a chorus of "terrible idea",
"don't do it" or "you'll regret it" ...

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or
should I consider treated softwood instead?

I'll have a fair quantity of topsoil to fill them with from levelling
other areas, just lob that straight into the beds or is it worth some
coarse aggregate in the bottom, especially of the deeper ones, for drainage?

Thanks ...

On 05/03/2014 07:36, Andy Burns wrote:
Looking to put in raised beds (of varying height 200mm to 450mm to break
them up a bit) it's taken me more than a decade to come up with this
cunning plan, so I'm hoping not to hear a chorus of "terrible idea",
"don't do it" or "you'll regret it" ...

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or
should I consider treated softwood instead?

I'll have a fair quantity of topsoil to fill them with from levelling
other areas, just lob that straight into the beds or is it worth some
coarse aggregate in the bottom, especially of the deeper ones, for
drainage?

Thanks ...




Scaffold boards lined with some waterproof material?

Saxman wrote:

On 05/03/2014 07:36, Andy Burns wrote:

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or
should I consider treated softwood instead?

Scaffold boards lined with some waterproof material?

I did wonder about lining the beds, either with weed membrane, or full
damp-proof membrane stuff. Most scaff boards I've seen look a little
"tatty".

The sleepers I'm looking at are actually half thickness at 200x50mm so
more like chunky boards anyway, I thought that would be strong enough,
and I'd fix the top board horizontally rather than vertically to make a
sturdier rail for parking bums on.

My question was more about the rot resistance of untreated oak v.s.
treated softwood.

On 05/03/2014 09:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Saxman wrote:

On 05/03/2014 07:36, Andy Burns wrote:

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or
should I consider treated softwood instead?

Scaffold boards lined with some waterproof material?

I did wonder about lining the beds, either with weed membrane, or full
damp-proof membrane stuff. Most scaff boards I've seen look a little
"tatty".

The sleepers I'm looking at are actually half thickness at 200x50mm so
more like chunky boards anyway, I thought that would be strong enough,
and I'd fix the top board horizontally rather than vertically to make a
sturdier rail for parking bums on.

My question was more about the rot resistance of untreated oak v.s.
treated softwood.


Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

--
Pete C
adventure before dementure
http://www.scar-crockenhill.org/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Secon...57749060989952

In article ,
Pete C wrote:
On 05/03/2014 09:11, Andy Burns wrote:

My question was more about the rot resistance of untreated oak v.s.
treated softwood.

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 05/03/2014 13:02, Pete C wrote:
On 05/03/2014 09:11, Andy Burns wrote:
Saxman wrote:

On 05/03/2014 07:36, Andy Burns wrote:

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or
should I consider treated softwood instead?

Scaffold boards lined with some waterproof material?

I did wonder about lining the beds, either with weed membrane, or full
damp-proof membrane stuff. Most scaff boards I've seen look a little
"tatty".

The sleepers I'm looking at are actually half thickness at 200x50mm so
more like chunky boards anyway, I thought that would be strong enough,
and I'd fix the top board horizontally rather than vertically to make a
sturdier rail for parking bums on.

My question was more about the rot resistance of untreated oak v.s.
treated softwood.


Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

If your pocket is limitless...

I've used (free) damaged scaffold boards cut down to 1.6m lengths,
mitred at ends and loosely held in place by bits of (free) arris rail
banged into ground. Corners contained by 150mm square posts using bands
from ends of old scaffold boards.

Those gales will have made yet more bits of post and arris rail easily
available.

I don't expect easily replaced boards to last more than 5 years.

Jim

"Andy Burns" wrote

Looking to put in raised beds (of varying height 200mm to 450mm to break
them up a bit) it's taken me more than a decade to come up with this
cunning plan, so I'm hoping not to hear a chorus of "terrible idea", "don't
do it" or "you'll regret it" ...

Looking at using new untreated oak sleepers direct onto topsoil, or should
I consider treated softwood instead?

I'll have a fair quantity of topsoil to fill them with from levelling other
areas, just lob that straight into the beds or is it worth some coarse
aggregate in the bottom, especially of the deeper ones, for drainage?

My interest is why you need raised beds? Terrible waste of ground with all
the paths so you need a good reason to want them.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 05/03/2014 13:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Pete C wrote:
On 05/03/2014 09:11, Andy Burns wrote:

My question was more about the rot resistance of untreated oak v.s.
treated softwood.

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

--
Pete C
adventure before dementure
http://www.scar-crockenhill.org/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Secon...57749060989952

Pete C wrote:

On 05/03/2014 13:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.

On 05/03/2014 16:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Pete C wrote:

On 05/03/2014 13:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.


In direct contact with soil nothing's going to last that long

On 05/03/2014 18:54, stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2014 16:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Pete C wrote:

On 05/03/2014 13:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.


In direct contact with soil nothing's going to last that long


Off topic a little.
In much of West Wales the veg gardens are made up into beds by taking
the top soil from the paths and using it to raise the bed height, so
often the beds are 12 inches or more above the path height, this gives
drainage and at no cost .
David @ a rain-free side of Swansea Bay

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2014 16:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.

In direct contact with soil nothing's going to last that long

I have some tanalised posts that I put in 25-30 years ago, and
are still solid.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 05/03/2014 19:36, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2014 16:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.

In direct contact with soil nothing's going to last that long

I have some tanalised posts that I put in 25-30 years ago, and
are still solid.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I seem to remember that in the "Old days" when timber was tanalised it
was vacuum then pressure treated, but from what I see of modern "Treated
"timber it's just dipped.
David

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I have some tanalised posts that I put in 25-30 years ago, and
are still solid.

I seem to remember that in the "Old days" when timber was tanalised it
was vacuum then pressure treated, but from what I see of modern "Treated
"timber it's just dipped.

It depends. If you buy the proper commercial timber, it's still
treated the same way, but the chemicals are somewhat less nasty
(and possibly less effective). If you buy from a bucket shop,
it's probably just dipped in the stuff sold for putting on fences.

I bought some 6" feather edge boards from B&Q - ye gods, how cheap
and nasty - but I was repairing a cheap, neglected and rotten
neighbour's fence! They were sold as 'treated' and it was clearly
a surface treatment only.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 05/03/2014 19:36, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
On 05/03/2014 16:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Pete C wrote:

Oak will outlive treated softwood by decades.

Sorry, but that is so misleading as to be false.

Oak heartwood will outlast cheaply treated softwood by decades,
true, but oak sapwood will not last that long, and the most
aggressively treated softwoods (the old pressure-creosoted and
tanalised ones) will outlast oak heartwood by decades. What am
an not sure is how effective the tanalisation replacement is.

Sorry Nick, I was only repeating what I've seen on television.

Thanks all, the spec of the oak sleepers allows a maximum of one waney
edge, so could be sapwood, but I prefer the look of oak, will likely go
for it.

In direct contact with soil nothing's going to last that long

I have some tanalised posts that I put in 25-30 years ago, and
are still solid.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


IME they rot at ground level because of prolonged contact with water,
but you can reduce the chances of that happening by having a concrete
base visible above ground and keeping the bases clear of vegetation.

I heard somewhere that setting posts in a very weak cement/gravel mix is
the way to go. Yes, they rot but very easy to knock the mortar off and
replace.