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Wheat seed?
On 29/06/2014 20:36, Hugh Newbury wrote:
On 29/06/14 17:42, David Hill wrote: On 29/06/2014 16:50, Chris Hogg wrote: On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:48:32 +0100, Hugh Newbury wrote: I want to grow some wheat to make my own bread. Where can I buy the seed? Hugh How many acres to the loaf? Or to put it another way, won't you have to grow quite a lot to get enough grain for just one loaf? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1222446AA3wnmY I discover that milling is difficult and/or expensive. So maybe I'll keep using the village bakery! But thanks all. Hugh What difference between using a food processor to reduce it to near dust and grinding? |
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Wheat seed?
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Wheat seed?
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Wheat seed?
In article ,
Janet wrote: In article , says... It was primitive women who did the grinding. The men were out all day hunting and gathering. So who was sowing and harvesting those grain crops? The women? :-) Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? In Britain, that's a damn good question - see Rackham and others. My personal speculation is that it was normally done by neither sex, but by ring-barking and intensive grazing. In most areas, that will convert woodland to grassland in under a century, and grassland is easy to convert to cultivation. In parts of the third world nothing has changed. In this country, hunter-gathering (found food) preceded agriculture (the clearing of forest to create grazing, breeding/tending livestock, cultivating soil to grow crops). Yup. By a LONG way. Homo sapiens is one of two current land mammals that has been here longest (tens of thousands of years). Clearing the woodland didn't start until c. 3,000 BC. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Wheat seed?
"Nick Maclaren" wrote
Janet wrote: says... It was primitive women who did the grinding. The men were out all day hunting and gathering. So who was sowing and harvesting those grain crops? The women? :-) Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? In Britain, that's a damn good question - see Rackham and others. My personal speculation is that it was normally done by neither sex, but by ring-barking and intensive grazing. In most areas, that will convert woodland to grassland in under a century, and grassland is easy to convert to cultivation. In parts of the third world nothing has changed. In this country, hunter-gathering (found food) preceded agriculture (the clearing of forest to create grazing, breeding/tending livestock, cultivating soil to grow crops). Yup. By a LONG way. Homo sapiens is one of two current land mammals that has been here longest (tens of thousands of years). Clearing the woodland didn't start until c. 3,000 BC. This site explains the timeline...... http://www.ukagriculture.com/country...de_history.cfm -- Regards. Bob Hobden. Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK |
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Wheat seed?
On 30/06/2014 13:13, Janet wrote:
In article , lid says... On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 23:52:22 +0100, Janet wrote: In article , lid says... It was primitive women who did the grinding. The men were out all day hunting and gathering. So who was sowing and harvesting those grain crops? The women? :-) Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? In parts of the third world nothing has changed. In this country, hunter-gathering (found food) preceded agriculture (the clearing of forest to create grazing, breeding/tending livestock, cultivating soil to grow crops). Janet. What country are you talking about? Slash and burn was not a common practice in Europe as it is a method used mainly by nomadic people who move on every 2 or 3 years. In the UK forests were not cleared for agriculture, it was the need for Oak for sailing ships from the 16th century onwards. Forests were about the only source of fuel that people had. for thousands of years people just gathered the seeds of wild grass, then some started to make holes on the ground and to drop a few grass seeds in so that they didn't have to search so far to find the seeds they needed. The plough came much later, see http://www.ploughmen.co.uk/ploughhistory.htm In The US of A primitive stick ploughs were uses in places well into the 19th century. Tending of livestock was mostly a shared job, where the animals needed defending from wild animals or marauding neighbours then it was the men that did it, especially as the keeping of livestock reduced the need of hunting to feed the people so men had more time to devote to developing husbandry skills and other agricultural practices. I do think that some time spent reading up on agricultural history would be a good idea |
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Wheat seed?
In article ,
David Hill wrote: On 30/06/2014 13:13, Janet wrote: In this country, hunter-gathering (found food) preceded agriculture (the clearing of forest to create grazing, breeding/tending livestock, cultivating soil to grow crops). What country are you talking about? Slash and burn was not a common practice in Europe as it is a method used mainly by nomadic people who move on every 2 or 3 years. She didn't mention that. In the UK forests were not cleared for agriculture, it was the need for Oak for sailing ships from the 16th century onwards. That is erroneous - see Rackham and many others. Most were cleared by the neolithic farmers, when agriculture was introduced. Until c. 3,000 BC, only a VERY few areas of the UK weren't forested, and most of those were and are unsuitable for agriculture. Forests were about the only source of fuel that people had. Er, no. Shrubs, reeds etc. all make good fuel. As do reasonably dry peat and herbivore dung. for thousands of years people just gathered the seeds of wild grass, then some started to make holes on the ground and to drop a few grass seeds in so that they didn't have to search so far to find the seeds they needed. There is no evidence for that, and it is VERY dubious (for grasses, anyway). They do not establish well like that, and a few plants aren't any use. It is possible that is how farming started, but it won't have been grasses. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Wheat seed?
In article ,
Martin wrote: On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:13:09 +0100, Janet wrote: Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? Slash and burners? Not in the UK. Except in the most extreme summers, and the pine domain (which was small, and mainly in the north), the woodland will not burn. See Rackham again, though he exaggerates. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Wheat seed?
In article ,
Martin wrote: Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? Slash and burners? Not in the UK. Except in the most extreme summers, and the pine domain (which was small, and mainly in the north), the woodland will not burn. See Rackham again, though he exaggerates. Assuming that there was never a dry warm spell in prehistoric times. Don't be ridiculous - I said "the most extreme summers", and I do not regard mere dry warm spells as that. On the few occasions that the woods would have burnt, they would have regenerated before the next extreme event. At MOST, a tiny patch could have been converted to farmland. Did they fell the trees with their little bronze hatches? Flint - it cuts better than steel, anyway. But I don't think that they DID fell them - my guess is that they ring-barked them, and then grazed the area intensively. That will turn woodland into grassland in under a century, and that is easy to cultivate. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#11
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Wheat seed?
In article ,
Martin wrote: Who cleared land of stones and trees and cultivated the soil fine enough to sow the grain in? Slash and burners? Not in the UK. Except in the most extreme summers, and the pine domain (which was small, and mainly in the north), the woodland will not burn. See Rackham again, though he exaggerates. Assuming that there was never a dry warm spell in prehistoric times. Don't be ridiculous - I said "the most extreme summers", and I do not regard mere dry warm spells as that. There were long dry periods in prehistoric times. Periods being decades not the occasional hot summer. What is it about the term "most extreme" that you don't understand? In the 36 years I have lived in this garden, it has got dry enough that the soil was bone dry 4" down and chemically waterless on the surface - i.e. not enough free water to allow even hydrophilic reactions. And that was nothing like dry enough to make the woods burn. In my memory (and I have lived in the UK since 1957), there TWO years when SMALL areas of the UK got dry enough for native woodlands to burn, and I don't believe that even those ended up killing most of the (native) trees. On the few occasions that the woods would have burnt, they would have regenerated before the next extreme event. At MOST, a tiny patch could have been converted to farmland. I suggest that you think about this paragraph. Did they fell the trees with their little bronze hatches? Flint - it cuts better than steel, anyway. But I don't think that they DID fell them - my guess is that they ring-barked them, and then grazed the area intensively. That will turn woodland into grassland in under a century, and that is easy to cultivate. A century was 3 or 4 lifetimes. Did ancient Britains plan that far ahead? You are being silly again. They didn't need to - the ring barking produced the grazing, which would have been their objective. The eventual conversion to grassland was a side-effect. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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