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#1
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Lynx reintroduction
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. |
#2
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Lynx reintroduction
Christina Websell wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Larry Stoter |
#4
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Lynx reintroduction
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote: On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia wrote: On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote: Christina Websell wrote: "Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures. But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job? Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals. and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. Ye gods and little fishes - just HOW many errors can you introduce into a simple sentence? The most problematic deer are muntjac and roe, which are woodland animals - dense cover in the first case - and both live in densely populated areas, including suburbia (especially the former). There are also damn-few people in the UK who know how to shoot safely under such conditions - and a much larger pool of 'trained marksmen' who are little better than official and trigger happy gunsels (e.g. police firearms officers). We SO want such people firing high-velocity 0.24"+ rounds in such places! Also, lynx do not have horns, are not cursory predators, and kill (like most cats) by biting the throat, leading to a quick death or escape. They also kill the old, ill and weak animals, reducing the number that die a lingering death, unlike hunters who prefer healthy animals. And, on another topic, lynx are very shy and almost never eat pets in the areas where they coexist. I agree that the hysteria of the seriously ignorant British public would be a major problem, as would the objections of those who breed peasants, sorry, pheasants for slaughter. And, no, I am not one of the "Don't shoot the little birdies" brigade - I have done it myself, but not like that. Our woodlands are facing a catastrophe, and so are many of the woodland birds and animals, because of the uncontrolled deer population. In the 1950s, it was kept down by farm dogs roaming free at night (and shooting them with shotguns), but they have got out of control since that stopped. We desperately need lynx back, and we need them back NOW. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#5
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Lynx reintroduction
On Sun, 03 May 2015 11:59:52 +0100, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg wrote: [] and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. Ye gods and little fishes - just HOW many errors can you introduce into a simple sentence? The most problematic deer are muntjac and roe, which are woodland animals - dense cover in the first case - and both live in densely populated areas, including suburbia (especially the former). There are also damn-few people in the UK who know how to shoot safely under such conditions - and a much larger pool of 'trained marksmen' who are little better than official and trigger happy gunsels (e.g. police firearms officers). We SO want such people firing high-velocity 0.24"+ rounds in such places! Also, lynx do not have horns, are not cursory predators, and kill (like most cats) by biting the throat, leading to a quick death or escape. They also kill the old, ill and weak animals, reducing the number that die a lingering death, unlike hunters who prefer healthy animals. And, on another topic, lynx are very shy and almost never eat pets in the areas where they coexist. I agree that the hysteria of the seriously ignorant British public would be a major problem, as would the objections of those who breed peasants, sorry, pheasants for slaughter. And, no, I am not one of the "Don't shoot the little birdies" brigade - I have done it myself, but not like that. Our woodlands are facing a catastrophe, and so are many of the woodland birds and animals, because of the uncontrolled deer population. In the 1950s, it was kept down by farm dogs roaming free at night (and shooting them with shotguns), but they have got out of control since that stopped. We desperately need lynx back, and we need them back NOW. That's a good post, and I agree with all of it, so I didn't snip it. Those of use that live with deer love them, but there need to be far fewer. -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
#6
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Lynx reintroduction
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia wrote: On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote: Christina Websell wrote: "Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures. But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job? Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals. and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or centuries ago. Move on! The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a difference. Steve |
#7
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Lynx reintroduction
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 May 2015 14:44:50 +0100, "shazzbat" wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia wrote: On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote: Christina Websell wrote: "Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures. But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job? Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals. and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or centuries ago. Move on! The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a difference. Steve My evidence: "Britain: It was thought that the lynx had died out in Britain either about 10,000 years ago, after the ice had retreated, or about 4,000 years ago, during a cooler and wetter climate change. However, carbon dating of lynx skulls taken from the National Museums of Scotland and the Craven caves in North Yorkshire show they lived in Britain between 80 and 425 AD". From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_lynx There have been other reported occurrences of Lynx in the UK in the last century or so, but they were all considered to have escaped from captivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_big_cats I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....? " Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx Steve |
#8
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Lynx reintroduction
In article ,
shazzbat wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote in message .. . The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a difference. I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....? " Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx I will raise you The History of British Mammals by Derek Yalden. The reference that Chris Hogg gave is the correct description of current knowledge. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#9
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Lynx reintroduction
My evidence: "Britain: It was thought that the lynx had died out in
Britain either about 10,000 years ago, after the ice had retreated, or about 4,000 years ago, during a cooler and wetter climate change. However, carbon dating of lynx skulls taken from the National Museums of Scotland and the Craven caves in North Yorkshire show they lived in Britain between 80 and 425 AD". From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_lynx There have been other reported occurrences of Lynx in the UK in the last century or so, but they were all considered to have escaped from captivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_big_cats I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....? " Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx Steve Good job too. We don't want wolves back either. |
#10
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Lynx reintroduction
"Chris Hogg" wrote
Fuschia wrote: (Larry Stoter) wrote: Christina Websell wrote: "Bob Hobden" wrote Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures. But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job? Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals. and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or centuries ago. Move on! They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no reason not to get them back. As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death because what they do is not humane? Yes a lot of deer are shot including in the Royal Parks but they have bred alarmingly in the UK without natural predators and we now see Muntjak, for example everywhere, including urban gardens. I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great Bustard, and the Beaver etc. -- Regards. Bob Hobden. Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK |
#11
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Lynx reintroduction
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote: They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no reason not to get them back. You've not read the posts by Shazzbat, MN and myself on that topic, just preceding yours, then. I have. I rely on more authoritative sources, like Yalden. As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death because what they do is not humane? Of course not, but if lynx aren't re-introduced here in the first place, they won't be killing to stay alive, will they. And more deer will die of grangrene and starvation. Predation is more humane. Even if the hunters intended to, they could not track down sick and injured deer without hunting them with dogs. I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great Bustard, and the Beaver etc. Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared to the lynx. You seem to be confusing the Eurasian lynx with a sabretoothed tiger. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#12
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Lynx reintroduction
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote: I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great Bustard, and the Beaver etc. Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared to the lynx. You seem to be confusing the Eurasian lynx with a sabretoothed tiger. You've completely lost me there. The lynx is carnivorous. The beaver is herbivorous, the bustard's diet is green plant material and insects in more or less equal amounts. So they're more benign than the lynx. What's the sabre-toothed tiger got to do with it? Read King Solomon's Ring by Konrad Lorenz. If you do so, you will see why benign and carnivorous are not even remotely antonyms. But I suspect that you are dearly attached to your prejudices. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#13
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Lynx reintroduction
On 03/05/2015 20:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
Hmm. I would have thought a marksman with a high-velocity rifle would achieve an instant kill, although I would agree that indiscriminate shooting, with a shot-gun for instance, might well result in what you suggest. You've never done any hunting have you? Suppose he's lined up for a clean shot to the heart, and just as he pulls the trigger the deer moves. He doesn't kill it outright, and the deer runs off - not at full speed, but still too fast to get another hit. It won't happen often, but it does happen. Andy |
#14
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Lynx reintroduction
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Sun, 3 May 2015 18:57:32 +0100, "Bob Hobden" wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote Fuschia wrote: (Larry Stoter) wrote: Christina Websell wrote: "Bob Hobden" wrote Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer. http://www.lynxuk.org/ Absolutely NOT. Oh, definitely yes. Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat destruction. Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western Europe and seems to be going fairly well. Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems. Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures. But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job? Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals. and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or centuries ago. Move on! They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no reason not to get them back. You've not read the posts by Shazzbat, MN and myself on that topic, just preceding yours, then. As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death because what they do is not humane? Of course not, but if lynx aren't re-introduced here in the first place, they won't be killing to stay alive, will they. Yes a lot of deer are shot including in the Royal Parks but they have bred alarmingly in the UK without natural predators and we now see Muntjak, for example everywhere, including urban gardens. I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great Bustard, and the Beaver etc. Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared to the lynx. -- Chris Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea. Mild, but very exposed to salt gales |
#15
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Lynx reintroduction
On 03/05/2015 10:31, Chris Hogg wrote:
and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx. Not sure about that. A deer which is "winged" by the marksman is likely to die a lingering death. A deer which has been caught by a lynx isn't likely to get away - their defence is not to get caught in the first place. Andy |
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