On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia
wrote:
On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote:
Christina Websell wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

Ye gods and little fishes - just HOW many errors can you introduce into
a simple sentence? The most problematic deer are muntjac and roe,
which are woodland animals - dense cover in the first case - and both
live in densely populated areas, including suburbia (especially the
former). There are also damn-few people in the UK who know how to
shoot safely under such conditions - and a much larger pool of
'trained marksmen' who are little better than official and trigger
happy gunsels (e.g. police firearms officers). We SO want such
people firing high-velocity 0.24"+ rounds in such places!

Also, lynx do not have horns, are not cursory predators, and kill
(like most cats) by biting the throat, leading to a quick death or
escape. They also kill the old, ill and weak animals, reducing the
number that die a lingering death, unlike hunters who prefer healthy
animals.

And, on another topic, lynx are very shy and almost never eat pets
in the areas where they coexist. I agree that the hysteria of the
seriously ignorant British public would be a major problem, as would
the objections of those who breed peasants, sorry, pheasants for
slaughter. And, no, I am not one of the "Don't shoot the little
birdies" brigade - I have done it myself, but not like that.

Our woodlands are facing a catastrophe, and so are many of the
woodland birds and animals, because of the uncontrolled deer
population. In the 1950s, it was kept down by farm dogs roaming
free at night (and shooting them with shotguns), but they have
got out of control since that stopped. We desperately need lynx
back, and we need them back NOW.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sun, 03 May 2015 11:59:52 +0100, Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
[]
and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

Ye gods and little fishes - just HOW many errors can you introduce into
a simple sentence? The most problematic deer are muntjac and roe, which
are woodland animals - dense cover in the first case - and both live in
densely populated areas, including suburbia (especially the former).
There are also damn-few people in the UK who know how to shoot safely
under such conditions - and a much larger pool of 'trained marksmen' who
are little better than official and trigger happy gunsels (e.g. police
firearms officers). We SO want such people firing high-velocity 0.24"+
rounds in such places!

Also, lynx do not have horns, are not cursory predators, and kill (like
most cats) by biting the throat, leading to a quick death or escape.
They also kill the old, ill and weak animals, reducing the number that
die a lingering death, unlike hunters who prefer healthy animals.

And, on another topic, lynx are very shy and almost never eat pets in
the areas where they coexist. I agree that the hysteria of the
seriously ignorant British public would be a major problem, as would the
objections of those who breed peasants, sorry, pheasants for slaughter.
And, no, I am not one of the "Don't shoot the little birdies" brigade -
I have done it myself, but not like that.

Our woodlands are facing a catastrophe, and so are many of the woodland
birds and animals, because of the uncontrolled deer population. In the
1950s, it was kept down by farm dogs roaming free at night (and shooting
them with shotguns), but they have got out of control since that
stopped. We desperately need lynx back, and we need them back NOW.


That's a good post, and I agree with all of it, so I didn't snip it.
Those of use that live with deer love them, but there need to be far
fewer.



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia
wrote:

On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a difference.

Steve

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 3 May 2015 14:44:50 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
.. .

On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia
wrote:

On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a
difference.

Steve

My evidence: "Britain: It was thought that the lynx had died out in
Britain either about 10,000 years ago, after the ice had retreated, or
about 4,000 years ago, during a cooler and wetter climate change.
However, carbon dating of lynx skulls taken from the National Museums
of Scotland and the Craven caves in North Yorkshire show they lived in
Britain between 80 and 425 AD". From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_lynx

There have been other reported occurrences of Lynx in the UK in the
last century or so, but they were all considered to have escaped from
captivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_big_cats

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....?



" Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx

Steve

In article ,
shazzbat wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
.. .

The lynx did not die out. It was hunted to extinction. There's a
difference.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....?

" Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx

I will raise you The History of British Mammals by Derek Yalden.
The reference that Chris Hogg gave is the correct description of
current knowledge.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

My evidence: "Britain: It was thought that the lynx had died out in
Britain either about 10,000 years ago, after the ice had retreated, or
about 4,000 years ago, during a cooler and wetter climate change.
However, carbon dating of lynx skulls taken from the National Museums
of Scotland and the Craven caves in North Yorkshire show they lived in
Britain between 80 and 425 AD". From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_lynx

There have been other reported occurrences of Lynx in the UK in the
last century or so, but they were all considered to have escaped from
captivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_big_cats

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your evidence is....?



" Lynx in Britain were wiped out in the 17th century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx

Steve

Good job too. We don't want wolves back either.

"Chris Hogg" wrote

Fuschia wrote:

(Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!


They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for
their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no
reason not to get them back.

As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to
do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death because
what they do is not humane? Yes a lot of deer are shot including in the
Royal Parks but they have bred alarmingly in the UK without natural
predators and we now see Muntjak, for example everywhere, including urban
gardens.

I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great
Bustard, and the Beaver etc.

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for
their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no
reason not to get them back.

You've not read the posts by Shazzbat, MN and myself on that topic,
just preceding yours, then.

I have. I rely on more authoritative sources, like Yalden.

As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to
do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death because
what they do is not humane?

Of course not, but if lynx aren't re-introduced here in the first
place, they won't be killing to stay alive, will they.

And more deer will die of grangrene and starvation. Predation is
more humane. Even if the hunters intended to, they could not track
down sick and injured deer without hunting them with dogs.

I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great
Bustard, and the Beaver etc.

Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared
to the lynx.

You seem to be confusing the Eurasian lynx with a sabretoothed tiger.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the Great
Bustard, and the Beaver etc.

Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared
to the lynx.

You seem to be confusing the Eurasian lynx with a sabretoothed tiger.

You've completely lost me there. The lynx is carnivorous. The beaver
is herbivorous, the bustard's diet is green plant material and insects
in more or less equal amounts. So they're more benign than the lynx.
What's the sabre-toothed tiger got to do with it?

Read King Solomon's Ring by Konrad Lorenz. If you do so, you will
see why benign and carnivorous are not even remotely antonyms.
But I suspect that you are dearly attached to your prejudices.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 03/05/2015 20:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
Hmm. I would have thought a marksman with a high-velocity rifle would
achieve an instant kill, although I would agree that indiscriminate
shooting, with a shot-gun for instance, might well result in what you
suggest.

You've never done any hunting have you?

Suppose he's lined up for a clean shot to the heart, and just as he
pulls the trigger the deer moves. He doesn't kill it outright, and the
deer runs off - not at full speed, but still too fast to get another
hit. It won't happen often, but it does happen.

Andy

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 May 2015 18:57:32 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Chris Hogg" wrote

Fuschia wrote:

(Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked
in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control
the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK -
because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!


They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for
their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no
reason not to get them back.

You've not read the posts by Shazzbat, MN and myself on that topic,
just preceding yours, then.

As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to
do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death
because
what they do is not humane?

Of course not, but if lynx aren't re-introduced here in the first
place, they won't be killing to stay alive, will they.

Yes a lot of deer are shot including in the
Royal Parks but they have bred alarmingly in the UK without natural
predators and we now see Muntjak, for example everywhere, including urban
gardens.

I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the
Great
Bustard, and the Beaver etc.

Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared
to the lynx.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

On 03/05/2015 10:31, Chris Hogg wrote:
and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

Not sure about that.

A deer which is "winged" by the marksman is likely to die a lingering
death. A deer which has been caught by a lynx isn't likely to get away -
their defence is not to get caught in the first place.

Andy

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 03 May 2015 09:59:59 +0100, Fuschia
wrote:

On Sun, 3 May 2015 08:30:52 +0100, (Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological
tourism in the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction
of the white tailed sea eagle.
--
Phil Cook