On Mon, 29 May 2017 21:43:10 Chris Hogg wrote:

Bordeaux mixture. I'm not surprised you're the only one using it. Not
available any more. Withdrawn from sale a couple of years ago. Yours
is old stock, I take it. Make it last!

Bordeaux mixture is a copper-lime fungicide, as you probably know.
Bayer did 'fruit and vegetable disease control' fungicide, in sachets,
that was based on copper oxychloride, but I see that's been withdrawn
now, although still available on Ebay, apparently
http://tinyurl.com/yd7jsyj8

There is this, which is in effect Bordeaux mixture but not named as
such and is a two-pack system that you mix yourself, which I suppose
gets round the regulations http://tinyurl.com/y9mnbw4q Makes 4 litres,
but for £3.55 + £1.33 postage that seems expensive to me.

It might be cheaper to buy your own hydrated lime and copper sulphate
in bulk and mix as needed. http://tinyurl.com/yc6vw4rf and get
hydrated lime from a builders merchant (most 'lime' sold in garden
centres is actually ground limestone, which won't behave like lime
when combined with copper sulphate, although is ok for adding to
soil). Instructions for making it, here http://tinyurl.com/kkbpqfq
with the caveat that she says slaked lime is calcium oxide, which is
wrong. Slaked lime is calcium hydroxide, and is the same as hydrated
lime. Calcium oxide is just lime.

I'll make a note of that. I'm coming to the end of my stock of Bordeaux
Mixture which is essential for me to spray on my vines every three weeks
or so in the growing season otherwise the vines get devastated by mildew
and I lose the crop.

I'll check first in the local agricultural merchants in France for
availability because the French don't always take notice of EU
regulations - unlike us! But if the French, and the Germans for that
matter, can't use Bordeaux Mixture I'd like to know what they use
instead.

I remember being on holiday amongst the vineyards along the Mosel in
Germany about twenty-odd years ago. They had alerts published for when
mildew was likely to strike and then they hired light planes to spray
Bordeaux Mixture along the banks of the river as it was impossible to
spray effectively from the ground owing to the slope of the river banks.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

"David Rance" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 29 May 2017 21:43:10 Chris Hogg wrote:

There is this, which is in effect Bordeaux mixture but not named as
such and is a two-pack system that you mix yourself, which I suppose
gets round the regulations http://tinyurl.com/y9mnbw4q Makes 4 litres,
but for £3.55 + £1.33 postage that seems expensive to me.

It might be cheaper to buy your own hydrated lime and copper sulphate
in bulk and mix as needed. http://tinyurl.com/yc6vw4rf and get
hydrated lime from a builders merchant (most 'lime' sold in garden
centres is actually ground limestone, which won't behave like lime
when combined with copper sulphate, although is ok for adding to
soil). Instructions for making it, here http://tinyurl.com/kkbpqfq
with the caveat that she says slaked lime is calcium oxide, which is
wrong. Slaked lime is calcium hydroxide, and is the same as hydrated
lime. Calcium oxide is just lime.

I'll make a note of that. I'm coming to the end of my stock of Bordeaux
Mixture which is essential for me to spray on my vines every three weeks or
so in the growing season otherwise the vines get devastated by mildew and I
lose the crop.

I'll check first in the local agricultural merchants in France for
availability because the French don't always take notice of EU
regulations - unlike us! But if the French, and the Germans for that
matter, can't use Bordeaux Mixture I'd like to know what they use instead.

I remember being on holiday amongst the vineyards along the Mosel in
Germany about twenty-odd years ago. They had alerts published for when
mildew was likely to strike and then they hired light planes to spray
Bordeaux Mixture along the banks of the river as it was impossible to spray
effectively from the ground owing to the slope of the river banks.

It seems that farmers are spoilt for choice. I mentioned Belchim, a Belgian
company that sponsors Bligh****ch:-
http://www.belchim.co.uk/index.php/sliders/products
Blight products are Profilus, Ranman, Drum, Kunshi and Narita.

Meanwhile back on planet earth, a quick call to a local farm supplier; they
have "Copper Mixture" made by Vitax at £3.74p for 175g "Sufficient to make 9
litres". It doesn't state Chris, whether it's c sulphate or oxychloride.
"contain copper, manganese and zinc".

David, it may be of interest as it includes fruit as well as potato
protection.

Chris, if Bordeaux is a mix of copper and lime, the local supplier also has
"garden lime" 3.5 Kg at £3.98 (inc) and 20 Kg at £9.98 inc. Should I
sprinkle lime on soil or mix with the copper and spray on potato leaves? TIA

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:49:49 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
Meanwhile back on planet earth, a quick call to a local farm supplier;
they
have "Copper Mixture" made by Vitax at £3.74p for 175g "Sufficient to make
9
litres". It doesn't state Chris, whether it's c sulphate or oxychloride.
"contain copper, manganese and zinc".

..Amazon do it, at twice the price of course:
..http://tinyurl.com/ya2gsppl But Vitax are marketing it as a trace
element fertiliser, but I suspect that's just to get around the
regulations, a bit like Root-Out is advertised as a compost
accelerator rather than a herbicide

The best compost accelerator, by a country mile is Yarrow. It thrives in the
grass roadside verges, that have been regularly mown. The fern-like leaves
are instantly recognisable. You can buy the seed, pick leaves at 4", a
heaped tablespoonful per wheelbarrow of weeds/grass :-
https://tedmanzer.com/2012/06/10/yar...edicinal-herb/
snip

David, it may be of interest as it includes fruit as well as potato
protection.

Chris, if Bordeaux is a mix of copper and lime, the local supplier also has
"garden lime" 3.5 Kg at £3.98 (inc) and 20 Kg at £9.98 inc. Should I
sprinkle lime on soil or mix with the copper and spray on potato leaves?
TIA


Question: is it truly hydrated lime, aka slaked lime, or is it ground
limestone? The latter is frequently advertised and sold as 'garden
lime' because hydrated lime needs to be handled a little carefully,
especially so that it doesn't get into your eyes. Suppliers these days
are very H&S conscious, and won't risk selling anything remotely
hazardous to the general public for fear of somebody misusing it and
the supplier being sued. Hence proper hydrated lime is no longer
available in garden centres, but only through builders merchants.
snip
Another call to the farm supplier - no it's not hydrated/slaked lime and is
in granular form. These should be forked into the ground. It does not state
that it's water soluble. If I can't get hold of the slaked, I'll spray with
Vitax and dig in the ground lime. I also need to move brassicas from g/house
to allotment. These will also benefit from a dose of lime.

On 30/05/2017 16:16, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:49:49 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
Meanwhile back on planet earth, a quick call to a local farm
supplier; they
have "Copper Mixture" made by Vitax at £3.74p for 175g "Sufficient to
make 9
litres". It doesn't state Chris, whether it's c sulphate or
oxychloride.
"contain copper, manganese and zinc".

.Amazon do it, at twice the price of course:
.http://tinyurl.com/ya2gsppl But Vitax are marketing it as a trace
element fertiliser, but I suspect that's just to get around the
regulations, a bit like Root-Out is advertised as a compost
accelerator rather than a herbicide

The best compost accelerator, by a country mile is Yarrow. It thrives in
the grass roadside verges, that have been regularly mown. The fern-like
leaves are instantly recognisable. You can buy the seed, pick leaves at
4", a heaped tablespoonful per wheelbarrow of weeds/grass :-
https://tedmanzer.com/2012/06/10/yar...edicinal-herb/
snip

David, it may be of interest as it includes fruit as well as potato
protection.

Chris, if Bordeaux is a mix of copper and lime, the local supplier
also has
"garden lime" 3.5 Kg at £3.98 (inc) and 20 Kg at £9.98 inc. Should I
sprinkle lime on soil or mix with the copper and spray on potato
leaves? TIA


Question: is it truly hydrated lime, aka slaked lime, or is it ground
limestone? The latter is frequently advertised and sold as 'garden
lime' because hydrated lime needs to be handled a little carefully,
especially so that it doesn't get into your eyes. Suppliers these days
are very H&S conscious, and won't risk selling anything remotely
hazardous to the general public for fear of somebody misusing it and
the supplier being sued. Hence proper hydrated lime is no longer
available in garden centres, but only through builders merchants.
snip
Another call to the farm supplier - no it's not hydrated/slaked lime and
is in granular form. These should be forked into the ground. It does not
state that it's water soluble. If I can't get hold of the slaked, I'll
spray with Vitax and dig in the ground lime. I also need to move
brassicas from g/house to allotment. These will also benefit from a dose
of lime.




Going off topic a bit.
In the past you used to be able to get calcified seaweed but this seems
to have gone off the market in the last few years.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 May 2017 16:58:21 +0100, David
wrote:

Going off topic a bit.
In the past you used to be able to get calcified seaweed but this seems
to have gone off the market in the last few years.

I may be thinking of something else, but IIRC there were deposits of
calcified seaweed off Plymouth and off Falmouth, that were extensively
dredged in the not-too-distant past. Whether the deposits have been
exhausted, or whether they've stopped dredging for environmental
reasons, e.g. causing damage to the sea bed flora and fauna, I don't
know, but either might explain why it's not around any more.

Maxicrop extract is the best well known. They sell it at the local Trago
Mills, so must be available at all the big farm shops, DIY outlets etc.

The dilution rate is quite fantastic and IIRC a small bottle lasted me a
whole season :-

http://tinyurl.com/y6ud3gfc

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 30 May 2017 19:30:51 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
wrote:
Maxicrop extract is the best well known. They sell it at the local Trago
Mills, so must be available at all the big farm shops, DIY outlets etc.

The dilution rate is quite fantastic and IIRC a small bottle lasted me a
whole season :-

http://tinyurl.com/y6ud3gfc

Not the same as calcified seaweed, which is granular and superficially
looks a bit like a kiddies breakfast cereal or some sort of novel
spaghetti shapes, http://tinyurl.com/y9oyk5em . Used as a

Yes you're correct, in fact Maxicrop sell it as a liquid extract. Your
calcified mage does look like kiddies cereal. If we can persuade the
minister of school dinners, to add it to their gruel, we could breed a
generation of super heroes :-)

There's an interesting and true story about the real seaweed. As you know,
gales in the western approaches, dumps loads onto the beaches. Looe Council
uses machinery (of some sort) to sweep the stuff back into the sea, thus
keeping Looe beach, pristine for the holiday makers. It's a bigger problem
on the rocky adjoining beach at Hannafore :-
https://prnt.sc/fe7xue
For years, a local farmer has come to the rescue with big tractor,
scoop-bucket and trailer. (No environmental issues, as seaweed is rootless).
Until Looe decided to charge (£30 - £50 IIRC) per trailer-load. The farmer
declined.

Needless to say, the following year, there were numerous complaints about
the pong of rotting seaweed, from local residents. The council went back to
the farmer and invited him to remove the stuff f.o.c. The farmer offered to
remove it for .... £30 - £50 per trailer-load. Not sure of the outcome of
this, assume Stalemate :-)