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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Jim Webster" wrote in message ... "BAC" wrote in message ... "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Tim Tyler writes snip A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise B's actions are the result of B's choices. So who was responsible for the killing of Charles 1, Cromwell and the co-signatories of the death warrant, or the executioner who did the deed (history seems to blame Cromwell)? the way that Tim is going to avoid consumers taking any responsibility, he will doubtless blame the guy who made the axe LOL - I hadn't thought of that :-) |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 30 May 2003 16:24:51 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 20:55:50 GMT, Malcolm wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 21:52:45 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 18:23:32 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Obviously, that doesn't give them the right to feed us and try to kill us off at the same time. Why would farmers try to kill off their customers? At the very least it would be a bad business practice. You're asking me!! ask the dealers, the farmer, the crack heads why! I agree, seems real daft. But where are all these dead customers? In the cemetery I guess, who said all victims need to be dead? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 May 2003 20:55:50 GMT, Malcolm wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 21:52:45 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 18:23:32 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Obviously, that doesn't give them the right to feed us and try to kill us off at the same time. Why would farmers try to kill off their customers? At the very least it would be a bad business practice. You're asking me!! ask the dealers, the farmer, the crack heads why! I agree, seems real daft. But where are all these dead customers? According to Pete at least one (Gorgeous George) is buried in my yard. I imagine that he thinks this will get me in trouble with DEFRA - what he perhaps hasn't realised in that on farm burial of vermin in still legal. Nor is there yet a ban on the use of that most ancient of weapons, the "troll bow". So another of Pete's sock puppets is dead and the mourning is over already. Michael Saunby |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 30 May 2003 17:22:31 +0100, "Michael Saunby"
wrote: "Peter Duncanson" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 29 May 2003 20:55:50 GMT, Malcolm wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 21:52:45 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 18:23:32 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Obviously, that doesn't give them the right to feed us and try to kill us off at the same time. Why would farmers try to kill off their customers? At the very least it would be a bad business practice. You're asking me!! ask the dealers, the farmer, the crack heads why! I agree, seems real daft. But where are all these dead customers? According to Pete at least one (Gorgeous George) is buried in my yard. I imagine that he thinks this will get me in trouble with DEFRA - what he perhaps hasn't realised in that on farm burial of vermin in still legal. Nor is there yet a ban on the use of that most ancient of weapons, the "troll bow". So another of Pete's sock puppets is dead and the mourning is over already. We'll never let it rest, have you already killed him, or is he locked in the basement as a sex slave? must have one hell of a donger to match the balls he had! Should imagine your sister was thrilled, how come the kid she has looks like you? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 30 May 2003 11:15:06 +0100, T N Nurse
wrote: In article , Derek Moody wrote: Hello Pete, got a job? I think he just lost one. His Georgeous George/Supernews sock-puppet has been silent on the old kill-file-ometer, with not a hit in 2 weeks. All he has now is the much-loved-by-porn-merchants TeraNews anon remailer account. But I guess with more time on his hands now, he can spend more of it down his local library or internet cafe accessing it for a bit more trolling. His hit rate doesn't seem to be too good of late though, according to the old kf-ometer, he's averaging less than one hit in 18 posts, which suggests that most folks are running kill-files on him and only the odd newbie is being hooked. Kill filing any header with TeraNews is a highly effective way of dealing not only with his respawned threads, but any followups to them. Oh Michael, if only you actually new how to implement a kf, it would save us all listening to your three steps behind whining. I wonder if Professor Sir Graeme Davies Principal and Vice-Chancellor of the University of Glasgow is aware that you are using their services for libel, trolling and general abuse of usenet, whilst besmirching the good name of GLA? He does now ha ha ha Lets see how quickly you can arrange another service provider...... -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article ,
says... But where are all these dead customers? Take a look over the wall of your nearest cemetery. Eating is seriously bad for you. -- David Visit http://www.farm-direct.co.uk for your local farmgate food supplies. FAQ's, Glossary, Farming Year and more! |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote:
: Added to which it's possible eating imported blueberries is as likely to : shorten life as prolong it [...] A miniscule possibility IMO - blueberries are pretty good for you. http://www.bcblueberry.com/health/ illustrates some of their virutes. This is a vendor's page - but it references the studies it cites. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Xref: kermit uk.environment.conservation:43508 uk.rec.gardening:146504 uk.rec.natural-history:15003 uk.business.agricultu114410
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: :: Tim Tyler writes ::: And if you have conservationist views, you SHOULD do that. ::: All else is hypocrisy. :: ::My diet is the way it is for health reasons; conservationist issues ::enter into the picture only rather peripherally. : :: It would be interesting to know what ailment you suffer from, as your :: diet doesn't seem to gell with anything I can think of. : :I have no idea what gives you the impression that I'm ill. : A strange diet "for health reasons". Usually means some illness or : other. Well, not in my case. I'm interested in my health since I appreciate being healthy - and want it to continue. :: object mightily to the unreasonable strike on flying the fruit and veg :: to them. [...] : :More likely the airline would quickly hire someone else with fewer :environmental scruples. : That's why environmentally minded people should do their stuff at every : opportunity. 2M brits refusing to eat air miles WILL have a significant : effect. I'm sure they would - if they could be persuaded. :: A chose to cause the death of C, remember? : :B caused the death of C - by pulling the trigger. : :A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's :freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise :B's actions are the result of B's choices. : Bollox. You have a disturbed ethical viewpoint. : One might as well say a president who told an aircraft to nuke london : would not be primarily responsible for the deaths. I think people should take responsibilty for their own actions. Claiming that someone else instructed them is not a permitted excuse. A president who told an aircraft to nuke London would be /involved/ in the deaths. What would happen to him would depend on the respective countries legal systems - and probably the outcome of their conflict. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Jim Webster wrote: : :: just stop the pollution in the first place. ban the flying of fruit. :: If it cannot survive by sea then tough : :I don't think that is a realistic goal, though. : It's a perfectly achievable aim, though. :: lot easier than trying to undo the damage the plane did in the first place : :Indeed - but you can't ground the world's planes without a pretty :convincing case. : Ahh, so environmental concern is fine, just so long as it doesn't bother : the consumer. [...] I said nothing of the sort. I doubt whether banning the flying of fruit will happen. It seems like an extremely unlikely scenario to me. Is there anyone seriously trying to achive this? If so, what is their action plan? -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Try it this way Tim. If the plane were pilot less. Not true today, but : far from impossible. Same for the warehouse, the supermarket, even the : farm. All done with machines. In such a situation presumably only God can : be blamed for the whole mess - certainly not the consumer. A ridiculous argument. : Grow up and learn to see yourself as others see you. You're a self centred : hypocrite Tim. Thanks :-| : Worse still you peculiar diet isn't likely to let you live : a longer and healthier life. [...] The scientific evidence is against you there. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening T N Nurse wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : :If A pays B to shoot C, who should be imprisoned for C's murder? : : : A and B, in all courts of law I know of. : : You suprise me - A has committed no murder. : However, A has *commisioned* the murder which, in law, makes : him as guilty as B who has commited the killing act. Guilt in the legal system is binary. Consequently even someone caught shoplifting is "as guilty" as the murderer. However the crimes and sentences may differ. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening BAC wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's : freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise : B's actions are the result of B's choices. : So who was responsible for the killing of Charles 1, Cromwell and the : co-signatories of the death warrant, or the executioner who did the : deed (history seems to blame Cromwell)? I don't know. Did the executioner act freely? Generally speaking I would blame whoever *commits* the act of violence - rather than anyone who told them to do it - or paid them to do it. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Xref: kermit uk.environment.conservation:43516 uk.rec.gardening:146523 uk.rec.natural-history:15008 uk.business.agricultu114418
In uk.rec.gardening Jim Webster wrote: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : : Indeed he could. Then the consumer would complain about free trade and : : object mightily to the unreasonable strike on flying the fruit and veg : : to them. [...] : : More likely the airline would quickly hire someone else with fewer : environmental scruples. : : : This doesn't mean the pilot is a cause of the shipping, any more than : : the aeroplane is a cause. : : The airplane has no volition - and can't initiate things by itself. : : The pilot however can. He is not even permitting harm to happen by : inaction. He actions are the most direct and immediate cause of the : pollution. : I have seen some wriggling but that takes some beating. So if consumers : stopped buying imported fruit airlines and supermarkets would still persist : in importing the stuff and stacking it up to rot in stores in an attempt to : shame people into buying it? Of course they would not. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : A strange diet "for health reasons". Usually means some illness or : other. Well, not in my case. I'm interested in my health since I appreciate being healthy - and want it to continue. In that case I would describe your diet as paranoid. : That's why environmentally minded people should do their stuff at every : opportunity. 2M brits refusing to eat air miles WILL have a significant : effect. I'm sure they would - if they could be persuaded. Starting with you. :: A chose to cause the death of C, remember? : :B caused the death of C - by pulling the trigger. : :A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's :freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise :B's actions are the result of B's choices. : Bollox. You have a disturbed ethical viewpoint. : One might as well say a president who told an aircraft to nuke london : would not be primarily responsible for the deaths. I think people should take responsibilty for their own actions. Quite. The action is that of causing someone's death. Claiming that someone else instructed them is not a permitted excuse. A president who told an aircraft to nuke London would be /involved/ in the deaths. He would, be considered to be primarily responsible by pretty well everyone on the planet. After all, if he hadn't given the order then london wouldn't have been nuked. What would happen to him would depend on the respective countries legal systems - and probably the outcome of their conflict. Maybe. I was discussing the ethics though. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Try it this way Tim. If the plane were pilot less. Not true today, but : far from impossible. Same for the warehouse, the supermarket, even the : farm. All done with machines. In such a situation presumably only God can : be blamed for the whole mess - certainly not the consumer. A ridiculous argument. Actually a very good one. So good you can't answer it. : Worse still you peculiar diet isn't likely to let you live : a longer and healthier life. [...] The scientific evidence is against you there. So how big an experiment on humans on this diet has been completed for their lifetime and what was the result? -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
Generally speaking I would blame whoever *commits* the act of violence - rather than anyone who told them to do it - or paid them to do it. So it's fine by you if I speak to some of my east end pals and have you beaten up? OK. Fine. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
I said nothing of the sort. I doubt whether banning the flying of fruit will happen. sigh Are you actually that stupid, or just pretending to be? Every consumer who refuses to buy airfreighted produce reduces pollution by (in personal terms) a significant amount. By buying it he increases pollution. Is there anyone seriously trying to achive this? Yes. There are quite a few groups trying to persuade people not to buy airfreighted goods. Many of the CO2 and green groups. If so, what is their action plan? Explain to people why it causes pollution and that refusing to buy it reduces pollution. Mind you a certain level of knowledge and lack of bigotry helps. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
http://www.bcblueberry.com/health/ illustrates some of their virutes. This is a vendor's page - Yeah, right, advertising. One born every minute, they say. but it references the studies it cites. Have you read them all? Do you understand them? Have you diligently looked for papers contradicting them? -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : : Ultimately the consumer is the polluter. : : : If they did not demand and buy the things that have caused the : : pollution, then they would never have been made and the pollution : : would never have happened. : : The consumer just wants the fruit. : So why be so fussy about the type? The type? : Why do you have the right to eat fuit out of season? I don't regard it as my right. If the governmemt were to intervene, I won't go to the European court of human rights in my defense. : Most of the world's population only have very limited access to : luxuries such as imported fruit. What do you contribute to the : globe that makes you so important? We could get into the details of my vocation, employment and virtues - but I fear it would take this thread far off topic. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Try it this way Tim. If the plane were pilot less. Not true today, but : far from impossible. Same for the warehouse, the supermarket, even the : farm. All done with machines. In such a situation presumably only God can : be blamed for the whole mess - certainly not the consumer. A ridiculous argument. Why? In most normal parts of the world, i.e. where more than 80% of the global population live, over half the workforce are involved in farming. Where you live only a couple of percent of the population are involved directly in agriculture; so you see you're already very close to the situation where you can no longer blame other people's greed for damage done to the environment - since much of it is done by machines, and what is grown and how is determined largely by government regulation and contracts from the large buyers - i.e. supermarkets. Our government is democratic and our supermarkets are customer focused. So clearly it's actually your greed, and that of other like you, who determined what the agricultural machines does, and how. As for your health; you don't need to indulge in daft North American fads such as blueberries. No doubt another unfortunate consequence of the madness that is the Internet. There are plenty of people in the UK and other parts of Europe that have lived long and healthy lives eating food produced locally. It would actually make more sense if you really feel you must live this way to do as people used to do if they fancied a different way of life - move to where that life is lived, rather than importing it. : Grow up and learn to see yourself as others see you. You're a self centred : hypocrite Tim. Thanks :-| Not at all. Until such time as you can see who you are, you clearly must depend on the kindness of others to help you a least glimpse what others see in you. : Worse still you peculiar diet isn't likely to let you live : a longer and healthier life. [...] The scientific evidence is against you there. The scientific evidence is largely to do with genes. You may well live longer than your parents, but not much longer. Of course experimenting with a dramatically different diet could change things for you, but in which direction is anybody's guess. Michael Saunby |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : : Ultimately the consumer is the polluter. : : : If they did not demand and buy the things that have caused the : : pollution, then they would never have been made and the pollution : : would never have happened. : : The consumer just wants the fruit. : So why be so fussy about the type? The type? Why an imported fruit? What's wrong with the fruit produced by your local producers? : Why do you have the right to eat fuit out of season? I don't regard it as my right. If the governmemt were to intervene, I won't go to the European court of human rights in my defense. Why should they have to intervene? Can't you simply accept that you could get perfectly good food without relying on environmentally harmful imports? : Most of the world's population only have very limited access to : luxuries such as imported fruit. What do you contribute to the : globe that makes you so important? We could get into the details of my vocation, employment and virtues - but I fear it would take this thread far off topic. And that's not the point. I'm simply saying that you don't need this stuff. You are using your extreme wealth (and those of us in the West control nearly all the world's wealth) in an inappropriate way. You're acting irresponsibly, yet you just don't seem to see it. All this from a man who has an obsession with the very little harm that other folks use of pesticides is likely to do to him. Michael Saunby |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Oz" wrote in message ... Tim Tyler writes I said nothing of the sort. I doubt whether banning the flying of fruit will happen. sigh Are you actually that stupid, or just pretending to be? Every consumer who refuses to buy airfreighted produce reduces pollution by (in personal terms) a significant amount. Not only that - they'll get to bring more goodies home from their holidays since most such freight is actually carried on passenger aircraft, especially package tours. So in a sense the transport is free since the aircraft would be making the trip anyway, and most of the countries that these trips are to don't produce much other than agricultural produce. Even so - Tim hasn't used mentioned this in his defence, so it seems it's yet another aspect of 21st century life that he hasn't grasped. By buying it he increases pollution. Is there anyone seriously trying to achive this? Yes. There are quite a few groups trying to persuade people not to buy airfreighted goods. Many of the CO2 and green groups. e.g. http://www.sustainweb.org http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/real_.../unfair_trade/ The search term "food mile" which is the term green groups use, brings up almost 4,000 hits on Google. Yet Tim isn't aware of this issue? It seems he's not involved in any environmental group at all, has little knowledge of current concerns, other than some stuff about pesticides, and then only because it impacts a little on his odd diet. Talk about self obsessed! If so, what is their action plan? Explain to people why it causes pollution and that refusing to buy it reduces pollution. Mind you a certain level of knowledge and lack of bigotry helps. But where would you start? "This is a seed...." Michael Saunby |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... In uk.rec.gardening BAC wrote: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's : freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise : B's actions are the result of B's choices. : So who was responsible for the killing of Charles 1, Cromwell and the : co-signatories of the death warrant, or the executioner who did the : deed (history seems to blame Cromwell)? I don't know. Did the executioner act freely? Generally speaking I would blame whoever *commits* the act of violence - rather than anyone who told them to do it - or paid them to do it. you attitude is at odds with English law Jim Webster -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Jim Webster wrote: : :: just stop the pollution in the first place. ban the flying of fruit. :: If it cannot survive by sea then tough : :I don't think that is a realistic goal, though. : It's a perfectly achievable aim, though. :: lot easier than trying to undo the damage the plane did in the first place : :Indeed - but you can't ground the world's planes without a pretty :convincing case. : Ahh, so environmental concern is fine, just so long as it doesn't bother : the consumer. [...] I said nothing of the sort. I doubt whether banning the flying of fruit will happen. only because some immoral fat cats would not like to be inconvenienced Jim Webster |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 30 May 2003 19:41:05 +0100, David P wrote:
In article , says... But where are all these dead customers? Take a look over the wall of your nearest cemetery. Eating is seriously bad for you. Yes, but not eating is much worse. On the other hand, deceased anorexics do take up less space in cemeteries. -- Peter Duncanson UK |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article , Oz
writes We have had barn owls sporadically for years. At least one pair bred, unfortunately two fledgelings drowned in water troughs (one of ours, one of neighbours). I haven't seen or heard a barn owl for years, but we have had little owls nesting in one of our barns for four years now. I've been able to hear the cries of this year's chicks in the last few days. Sadly, here too, two of last year's fledgelings drowned in the trough in the yard. I've got that covered now, (there being no cattle in the yard at the moment). However, there's another trough on the other side of the barn which is equally dangerous but I can't cover as it's used by the cattle in the adjacent field. Has anyone any suggestions on how to make it safe for owls? I vaguely recall seeing somewhere troughs with slabs of something like polystyrene floating in them. The idea perhaps being that the cattle could push them down enough to be able to drink but they would take the weight of a bird. Now I think about it, I suspect the original reason was more likely to keep the light out to stop the growth of algae, but that doesn't mean they can't protect birds too. Does anyone know about this? -- David Hartley |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
David Hartley wrote in message ... In article , Oz writes However, there's another trough on the other side of the barn which is equally dangerous but I can't cover as it's used by the cattle in the adjacent field. Has anyone any suggestions on how to make it safe for owls? Make some steps in the trough at one end, using housebricks. Tina |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Jim Webster" wrote in message ... the way that Tim is going to avoid consumers taking any responsibility, he will doubtless blame the guy who made the axe No it was the farmer that grew the tree that became the block. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Peter Duncanson writes
Yes, but not eating is much worse. On the other hand, deceased anorexics do take up less space in cemeteries. ! -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Hämisch Macbeth" wrote in message ... "Jim Webster" wrote in message ... the way that Tim is going to avoid consumers taking any responsibility, he will doubtless blame the guy who made the axe No it was the farmer that grew the tree that became the block. it were god wot dun it! If he hadn't lit the fuse that started the big bang then none of it would have happened Jim Webster |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :I said nothing of the sort. : :I doubt whether banning the flying of fruit will happen. : sigh : Are you actually that stupid, or just pretending to be? I was replying to the suggestion of: ``just stop the pollution in the first place. ban the flying of fruit. If it cannot survive by sea then tough'' Of course, you have to snip this context out before making your comments. :Is there anyone seriously trying to achive this? : Yes. There are quite a few groups trying to persuade people not to buy : airfreighted goods. Many of the CO2 and green groups. :If so, what is their action plan? : Explain to people why it causes pollution and that refusing to buy it : reduces pollution. [...] I doubt that will be effective. It's a tragedy of the commons situation - people can gain the benefits individually - and even anonymously - while the cost is shared globally. I think attempts to deal with the problem should attempt to rearrange it so the costs are paid by the consumer. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :http://www.bcblueberry.com/health/ illustrates some of their virutes. : :This is a vendor's page - : Yeah, right, advertising. : One born every minute, they say. :but it references the studies it cites. : Have you read them all? : Do you understand them? : Have you diligently looked for papers contradicting them? I have a fair understanding of blueberry nutrition. The first point made is normally regarded as not technically correct - with wolfberries coming first (among fruit) in terms of ORAC/gram - and strawberries coming first in ORAC/calorie. However blueberries are still fine anti-oxidant fruit. I've looked at a good number of studies of blueberries. Here's the blueberry/spinach study, for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract There are a fairly large number of studies of blueberries easily available online - you might like to try finding a negative one yourself. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... : In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: : : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message : ... : : In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : : : Ultimately the consumer is the polluter. : : : : : If they did not demand and buy the things that have caused the : : : pollution, then they would never have been made and the pollution : : : would never have happened. : : : : The consumer just wants the fruit. : : : So why be so fussy about the type? : : The type? : Why an imported fruit? What's wrong with the fruit produced by your local : producers? That would probably not be too bad - if it was available all year round - but it isn't. Much fruit is seasonal in nature - and the expense of fooling plants that the seasons are different by growing them in controlled environments is (presubably) even greater than the cost of importing their produce. My consumption of imported blueberries would probably drop dramatically if I could locate a reasonable vendor of UK frozen blueberries. I eat many frozen berry fruit, and would love to add blueberries to my menu. Unfortunately it seems this market currently has zero vendors in it. : : Why do you have the right to eat fuit out of season? : : I don't regard it as my right. If the governmemt were to intervene, : I won't go to the European court of human rights in my defense. : Why should they have to intervene? They don't have to intervene. Indeed they don't intervene. : Can't you simply accept that you could get perfectly good food without : relying on environmentally harmful imports? There would be many foods that were unavailable if food was not imported - including some very useful ones. : : Most of the world's population only have very limited access to : : luxuries such as imported fruit. What do you contribute to the : : globe that makes you so important? : : We could get into the details of my vocation, employment and virtues - : but I fear it would take this thread far off topic. : And that's not the point. I'm simply saying that you don't need this : stuff. You are using your extreme wealth (and those of us in the West : control nearly all the world's wealth) in an inappropriate way. You're : acting irresponsibly, yet you just don't seem to see it. [...] I acknowledge the environmental impact of importing (e.g.) blueberries. What I don't have is a reasonable alternative to doing it. I've previously considered refraining from sponsoring imported blueberries - and it's not currently an attractive option for me. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: :: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... :: In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: :: Try it this way Tim. If the plane were pilot less. Not true today, but :: far from impossible. Same for the warehouse, the supermarket, even the :: farm. All done with machines. In such a situation presumably only God :: can be blamed for the whole mess - certainly not the consumer. : :A ridiculous argument. : Actually a very good one. So good you can't answer it. I've already pointed out that aninimate objects have no freedom, and can't be held responsible for their actions. The step of "blaming god" is illogical, and without justification. Actually, it appears to me the original author is making no attempt at making a serious argument - rather he's poking fun at what he sees as my unwillingness to blame consumers for the act of purchasing things. :: Worse still you peculiar diet isn't likely to let you live :: a longer and healthier life. [...] : :The scientific evidence is against you there. : So how big an experiment on humans on this diet has been completed for : their lifetime and what was the result? No lifetime studies in humans. The results come from other animals - and from non-lifespan studies in man. http://www.calorierestriction.org/ (and its resources) explains the situation regarding the scientific evidence relating to dietary interventions and human aging. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :Generally speaking I would blame whoever *commits* the act of violence - :rather than anyone who told them to do it - or paid them to do it. : So it's fine by you if I speak to some of my east end pals and have you : beaten up? : OK. : Fine. I would regard them as being responsible for any resulting injuries - if that's what you meant to ask. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Jim Webster wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message news: : Generally speaking I would blame whoever *commits* the act of violence - : rather than anyone who told them to do it - or paid them to do it. : you attitude is at odds with English law That's true in many areas. I don't approve of many of my country's laws - and think it is lax in regulating other areas. In this case the main issue is freedom of speech. I don't regard this as a basic right - but would prefer it if the government kept its fingers out as much as possible. The idea that people can be imprisoned for things they have said is abhorrent to me. I think actions speak lounder than words. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... I think attempts to deal with the problem should attempt to rearrange it so the costs are paid by the consumer. They generally are. Lots of regulations require that sources of polution are controlled to limit their effect. Catalytic converters on cars, sulpher scrubbers on powerstations for example. These add to the costs which are passed onto the consumer. Cars produce a lot of polution and fuel is heavily taxed, justified by the polution impact.. Problem is the poluter pays but the money raised is often not used to clean up the polution and its effects. Also the world ecosystem can handle a level of polution and break down the products, so it is only nessesary to get polution down to a sustainable level. What is needed is a mechanism to permit a reduction of polution to below the recoverable level. To do this is a government level descision, it involves efficient public transport, homes and work location that minimise regular utilitarian travel. Production that is energy and raw resource efficient. A transport system that does not have cars stationary burning fuel unnessesarily. Then perhaps lifestyle, more difficult because one mans luxuary may be another's basic need. One family may happily eat locally produced food, with zero air-mile content but demand an annual holiday in Florida. Another may happily visit the lake district but want really nice food from all over the world. Short of rationing it is difficult to imagine a system that can limit individuals polution contribution to a sustainable level. Perhaps education and a better sense of social responsibility where individuals consider their usage of polution producing products and activities. Always buying locally unless their is a reason not to may be a good start. Taxing is a rather crude mechanism, there is no harm in the family holiday in Florida if that is the most fuel consuming activity in the year. If that is accomapied with 300 mile weekend trips to the families country cottage every week, food from all around the world and excessive mileage between home and work it may not. Eventually though as China and the third world develope, the demand for the cars and air travel will rise forcing up the costs of oil very significantly. The resource is limited so the additional demand will not increase polution but will either significantly drop the ability for the west to use so much or react with the development of re-newable non-poluting alternatives. Given that the USA will feel the impact of the un-availability of fossil fuels we can expect that its technological might will focus on renewable technology, and lower energy needs for the same lifestyle. Someone in the hot south of the USA was telling me that their air-conditioning unit can only achieve a 20F differential between inside and outside temperatures. This has to be a candidate for better insulation regulations on new buildings so that less fuel can achive required comfort and maintain a living standard with less polution. The emphasis being on regulation rather than taxation or penalties, many of the most effective methods are not easily within the scope of individuals. And in the long run more significant than where a punnet of bluebarries come from. Mind you when you cure one problem, you create another. After walking down to the local farmshop for a pound of apples you will have had some exercise and minimised polution. But if you had had a Pizza delivered by van and some of those nice flown in Belgium chocolates you would have had the decency to die before you became a burdon on the state pensions. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: :: A strange diet "for health reasons". Usually means some illness or :: other. : :Well, not in my case. I'm interested in my health since I appreciate :being healthy - and want it to continue. : In that case I would describe your diet as paranoid. ? I prefer to think of it as preventative medicine. :: That's why environmentally minded people should do their stuff at every :: opportunity. 2M brits refusing to eat air miles WILL have a significant :: effect. : :I'm sure they would - if they could be persuaded. : Starting with you. So far, no success :-| As I mentioned in another post I reckon one of the most effective ways of reducing my blueberry imports would be to provide me with a vendor of frozen UK blueberries. However maybe this would just be treating the symptom ;-) I would support efforts to make sure the "true" cost of food production (i.e. the cost of producing it sustainably) is paid. However I have little interest in attempts to do this by using consumer boycotts of the products in question. For one thing I don't think such an approach will work. For another it fails to get to the root of the problem - which seems to me to be that the full costs of pollution and fossil fuels are not being paid by those who produce them. This affects everything - not just importing fruit. ::: A chose to cause the death of C, remember? :: ::B caused the death of C - by pulling the trigger. :: ::A can only cause B to do something directly if he eliminates B's ::freedom of action - e.g. by drugging or hypnotizing him - otherwise ::B's actions are the result of B's choices. [...] :Claiming that someone else instructed them is not a permitted excuse. : :A president who told an aircraft to nuke London would be /involved/ in :the deaths. : He would, be considered to be primarily responsible by pretty well : everyone on the planet. After all, if he hadn't given the order then : london wouldn't have been nuked. :What would happen to him would depend on the respective :countries legal systems - and probably the outcome of their :conflict. : Maybe. I was discussing the ethics though. A notoriously difficult subject - and probably not one terribly at home on uk.environment.conservation, uk.rec.gardening or uk.rec.natural-history. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... The idea that people can be imprisoned for things they have said is abhorrent to me. I think actions speak lounder than words. Hitler & Stalin & Mau did very well using only words. You have to go back a long way to get to the 'hands on' mass murderers. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tim Tyler writes
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: : Tim Tyler writes :In uk.rec.gardening Michael Saunby wrote: :: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ... :: In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote: :: Try it this way Tim. If the plane were pilot less. Not true today, but :: far from impossible. Same for the warehouse, the supermarket, even the :: farm. All done with machines. In such a situation presumably only God :: can be blamed for the whole mess - certainly not the consumer. : :A ridiculous argument. : Actually a very good one. So good you can't answer it. I've already pointed out that aninimate objects have no freedom, and can't be held responsible for their actions. sigh That was precisely the point, which you seem to have completely missed. :: Worse still you peculiar diet isn't likely to let you live :: a longer and healthier life. [...] : :The scientific evidence is against you there. : So how big an experiment on humans on this diet has been completed for : their lifetime and what was the result? No lifetime studies in humans. OK, so not even the evidence you require of pesticides. The results come from other animals - Which animals? Corroborated? Similarity to humans (tricky, no great apes are as carnivorous as homo sap). and from non-lifespan studies in man. Tricky to estimate life extension before death. http://www.calorierestriction.org/ (and its resources) explains the situation regarding the scientific evidence relating to dietary interventions and human aging. Indeed so. Similar effects have been shown for mice fed ad-lib every other day. These mice do NOT show the low weight but DO show the increased life. Recently reported in either new scientist or scientific american. It's not at all as simple as you think. There was also work done on stress which indicates that pathological worrying about your diet increases illness. You are heading along an untested route that is supported by very limited evidence, much of it contradictory. That's your problem. However if you want to live a long time then choose long-lived parents and grandparents. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
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