The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide
it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. Levesque, C.A. (1987), "Effects of glyphosate on Fusarium spp.: its influence on root colonization of weeds, propagule density in the soil, and crop emergence." Can. J Microbiol. Vol 33, pp354-360. Sanogo, S., et al,(2000) "Effects of herbicides on Fusarium solani f. sp glycines and development of sudden death syndrome in glyphosate-tolerant soybean." Phytopathology, v. 90 (N1): 57-66. Mycorrhizae are soil fungus that function to increase nutrient uptake by plants through a symbiotic association with the roots. Mycorrhizae have been implicated in the improved resistance to stress, and are necessary for the proper growth and development of most vascular plants. Studies have shown that glyphosate inhibits the growth of mycorrhizae. Killing of beneficial mycorrhizae can result in overgrowth of toxic or pathogenic fungus, such as Fusarium. Estok, D. et al (1989) , "Effects of the herbicides 2,4-D, glyphosate, hexazinone, and trichopyr on the growth of three species of ectomycorrhizal fungi." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology v 42, pp 835-839. Levesque, C.A. and Rahe, J.E. (1992), "Herbicidal interactions with fungal root pathogens, with special reference to glyphosate." Annual Review of Phytopathology v.30, 572-602. Glyphosate destroys nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Plants are dependent on the availability of inorganic nitrogen in the soil. In order to be utilized by plants, nitrogen must be fixed by the addition of oxygen. Nitrification, the oxidative conversion of ammonium ions to nitrate, produces the principle form of nitrogen assimilated by higher plants, and is under control of relatively few species of bacteria. Hendricks, C.W. (1992), "Effects of glyphosate and nitapyrin on selected bacterial populations in continuous-flow culture." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology v. 49, 417-424. Glyphosate bound to soil particles may still be toxic and bioavailable to filter feeders, such as crustaceans and molluscs, and potentially other organisms that ingest significant quantities of soil during normal feeding, including bottom-feeding fish, shorebirds, amphibians, and some mammals. Welten, R., et al. (2000), "Ecotoxicity of contaminated suspended solids for filter feeders (Daphnia magna)." Archives of Env. Contam. And Tox. 39 (3): 315-323. Glyphosate - Notes on Environmental Fate and Application Glyphosate’s toxicity is compounded by its persistence in the environment. Many studies show that glyphosate remains, chemically unchanged in the environment, for periods of up to a year. Recent research suggests that even when glyphosate binds to soil particles, it will cyclically "desorb" or lose its attraction to soil and become active as an herbicide. Persistence and degradation Soil: "Field half-lives range from 1-174 days, moderately persistent with estimated average half-life of 47 days" Wauchope, RD, et al. Pesticide Property Database for Environmental Decision Making. Rev. Environ. Contam. Toxicology, 1992. Weed Science Soc. Of America. Herbicide Handbook 7th Edition. 1994. Pp 10-58. "Persisted in soils in Oregon Coast Range with half-life of 55 days" Newton, M, et al. 1984 Fate of glyphosate in an Oregon forest ecosystem. J. Food Agric. Chem. 32:1144-1155. "Persisted for 360 days in three Canadian boreal forest site" Roy, DN, et al. 1989. Persistence, movement, and degradation of glyphosate in selected Canadian boreal forest soils. J. Agric. Food Chem. 37:437-440. Water: "Half-life in pond water is 10-12 weeks" USDA Pesticide Background Statements. Vol I: Herbicides. Wash DC, 1987 pp 6-10. US EPA Pesticide Tolerance for glyphosate. Fed. Reg. 57:873940. 1992 pp 10-98. "Half-life of glyphosate (Accord) in forest pond sediments was 400 days" World Health Organization, UNEP, 1994. Glyphosate. Environmental health criterion #159. Geneve, Switzerland. "The rate of glyphosate degradation in soil correlates with the respiration rate, an estimate of microbial activity. Glyphosate has been found to inhibit growth (at 50ppm) of 59% of randomly selected soil bacteria, fungal, actinomycete, and yeast isolates; of nine herbicides tested, glyphosate was the second most toxic." This infers that with extensive glyphosate use, soil microbes are killed which degrade glyphosate, thus slowing degradation and increasing persistence. Glyphosate is much more persistent in anaerobic soils than aerobic. Carlisle, SM and Trevors, JT. Glyphosate in the environment. 1988. Water, Air, and Soil Pollution. 39:409-412. In water, glyphosate seems to bind tightly to soil particles, supposedly reducing the freely circulating glyphosate in water. One study shows that the desorption rate of glyphosate, the rate at which it unbinds from soil particles, can be high. Thus, the persistence of glyphosate bound to soil in the environment maintains its toxicity, to some degree. This study found that, "80% of applied glyphosate desorbed from soil particles in a two-hour period." Piccolo, A. et al. 1994. Adsorption and desorption of glyphosate in some European soils. J Environ. Sci. Health B29 (6) : 1105-1115. Restrictions on aerial application in the U.S. Label on most glyphosate products read: "Do not apply to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the high water mark. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment washwaters and rinsate." "Do not aerially apply higher than ten feet above the top of the highest vegetation treated." -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. .. How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid? Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist, Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you would drown in it! Clearly nonsense. rather than partial drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally inhaling Roundup as a liquid? Quite. I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect. Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it "seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK. That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them. Smoking a typical example. Unlike when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other year if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards and learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me feel sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews... And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. I'm sure there are some effects, but mostly on the people who spray the stuff. I don't grow food. Well, I just planted an herb garden, but will make sure it isn't sprayed, while I still will spray the yard. A farmer doesn't have the same option, though. They can't just spray around the plants and losses due to insects could be devastating to a farm, but I won't lose my income if bugs eat my basil... I also wash all of my produce before consumption. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 15:26:57 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews. .. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. I'm sure there are some effects, It's a fact, there are many known and unknown effects. but mostly on the people who spray the stuff. That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? I don't grow food. But the fact is people do, and this crap is used on it. Well, I just planted an herb garden, but will make sure it isn't sprayed, while I still will spray the yard. A farmer doesn't have the same option, though. They can't just spray around the plants and losses due to insects could be devastating to a farm, but I won't lose my income if bugs eat my basil... Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? I also wash all of my produce before consumption. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:f3cdf9dde3cec80908c88c978bc18fd8@TeraNews... That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? Probably a bit of naivety involved, but I think there is more danger inhaling the stuff, and I'm not really sure how much of it ends up on my dinner plate, what with rain, factory washing, me washing and the plant enzymes destroying it..... Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? But the organic farmers *have* to charge more for their produce because it costs them more to generate it and they suffer more loss due to insects and such. If the majority of the public were ready to pay more for their food, the supermarkets would stock a majority of organics. The ratios are probably a bit different in the UK, because the public seems to be more environmentally conscious than in the US, but our supermarkets set aside maybe 2 percent of their space for organics, if they have any at all. Lots of stores don't even carry organics because, when the public sees conventional potatoes at 0.49 per pound, right next to organic 1.49 per pound, they are most often going to pick the conventional because of the price. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. Hmmm, I didn't think of that. Do bad things leach out in a cold water soak? There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. Hadn't heard about it. Do you, by chance, know where I can find objective info on the subject? The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? I assume they just didn't know what was killing the people... Do they use a different chemicals on peanuts than on every other plant? Why would people become allergic to peanuts and not other plants? I agree that pollution, in general, may aggravate allergies, but I believe the increase in allergies has more to do with the sterilization of our life styles and the over use of anti-biotics. Our immune systems just don't have the opportunities to develop the way they used to, ergo people get sick from things they didn't used to.... M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 16:24:05 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:f3cdf9dde3cec80908c88c978bc18fd8@TeraNews. .. That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? Probably a bit of naivety involved, but I think there is more danger inhaling the stuff, and I'm not really sure how much of it ends up on my dinner plate, what with rain, factory washing, me washing and the plant enzymes destroying it..... That's great, you know the facts, and you base your decision on that. This is all we ask, the chance for us all to do the same. We are being pumped full of this junk, which big business claims is safe, don't worry, yet many of us do have genuine concerns. Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? But the organic farmers *have* to charge more for their produce because it costs them more to generate it and they suffer more loss due to insects and such. If the majority of the public were ready to pay more for their food, the supermarkets would stock a majority of organics. The ratios are probably a bit different in the UK, because the public seems to be more environmentally conscious than in the US, but our supermarkets set aside maybe 2 percent of their space for organics, if they have any at all. Lots of stores don't even carry organics because, when the public sees conventional potatoes at 0.49 per pound, right next to organic 1.49 per pound, they are most often going to pick the conventional because of the price. No doubt about it. Rome wasn't built in a day, this is why we need education about what we buy. The price difference is nowhere near that great in my local Sainsbury, 2.5kg Maris Piper (cheapis) £1.22 organic £1.39! this is what I am saying, for me, organics really is hardly much different from usual. OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. Hmmm, I didn't think of that. Do bad things leach out in a cold water soak? I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. Hadn't heard about it. Do you, by chance, know where I can find objective info on the subject? www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? I assume they just didn't know what was killing the people... Do they use a different chemicals on peanuts than on every other plant? Why would people become allergic to peanuts and not other plants? I agree that pollution, in general, may aggravate allergies, but I believe the increase in allergies has more to do with the sterilization of our life styles and the over use of anti-biotics. But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Our immune systems just don't have the opportunities to develop the way they used to, ergo people get sick from things they didn't used to.... That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:0162a5b6292500f2d55de2ca59c76e44@TeraNews... OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. To the family with five kids, one unemployed parent and the other making minimum wage, there isn't a choice. Not everyone *can* afford the difference, no matter how much they want it. I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. Makes sense. www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. Not if you don't have hours to spend sifting through the stuff to find objective information. I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. What is the FSA? But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Perhaps it is different in the UK, but US kids are raised on anti-biotics. I suspect in the societies where anti-biotics really aren't used, they don't have the same kinds of allergies as western societies do. That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? How clean did your mother keep your house when you were growing up? Did she use bleach and ammonia to clean the place, thereby killing all those little germs your body would be developing a defense against? I bet she even sterilized your bottles before feeding you. Did she teach you to wash your hands before eating, killing more little bugs? Did you bath almost daily? I don't know how old you are, but after a couple of generations of a more sterile environment, I'm sure some lack of resistance is then passes on in genes. The purpose for all of this cleansing of our environment is supposed to help prevent the spread of disease, and it does do that, in some cases, but it also hinders the development of our immune systems. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:08:49 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:0162a5b6292500f2d55de2ca59c76e44@TeraNews. .. OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. To the family with five kids, one unemployed parent and the other making minimum wage, there isn't a choice. Not everyone *can* afford the difference, no matter how much they want it. You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. Makes sense. www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. Not if you don't have hours to spend sifting through the stuff to find objective information. How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. What is the FSA? Food Standards Agency or something. But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Perhaps it is different in the UK, but US kids are raised on anti-biotics. I suspect in the societies where anti-biotics really aren't used, they don't have the same kinds of allergies as western societies do. May well have a point. That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. How clean did your mother keep your house when you were growing up? About as clean as my family do now, not obsessively by any stretch of the imagination. Did she use bleach and ammonia to clean the place, thereby killing all those little germs your body would be developing a defense against? Ha, couldn't afford it. I bet she even sterilized your bottles before feeding you. Is that not common sense? Did she teach you to wash your hands before eating, It's a priority today. killing more little bugs? Did you bath almost daily? Nope. I don't know how old you are, but after a couple of generations of a more sterile environment, I'm sure some lack of resistance is then passes on in genes. Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. The purpose for all of this cleansing of our environment is supposed to help prevent the spread of disease, and it does do that, in some cases, but it also hinders the development of our immune systems. To a certain extent that would be true, no doubt about it. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Malcolm wrote in message 4a74b2e931751f1b12b9499abcefa76c@TeraNews... Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, Really? Why are you using a technology that involves hundreds or thousands of chemicals thne instead of a quill pen, hypocrite? you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! Have you ever used a car or a plane? Do you ever buy anything that comes by a powered vehicle? But there's no substitute for hard work, is there? - so walk. You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. And the people use millions of tons of paint, instead of lime-wash. We live in rooms that are painted! Go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. Well, go to the foot of our stairs. You get a lot of aquatic plants on my drive. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. Yeah. So do the scores of trees I've planted 'alter the ecology of [planted] areas'. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Nope. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Have you read anything entitled "response of people to not living nasty brutish short disease-ridden povetry-struck lives without chemicals" ? I thought not. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Well, I haven't noticed any difference to the moose round here since I started using Roundup. I haven't noticed any moose round here at all, ot be honest. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: With an LD50 of 4000mg/kg? Don't make me laugh. What's the LD50 of table salt, by the way? Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. How kind. Normal testing only kills 50%. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Tried drinking 100ml of bleach? 100 tablets of paracetamol? It's a nasty rough world out there. Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. but you don't mention any quantities. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. potential? Care to make a list of common chemicals that appear in households that are potential endocrine disruptors? have you got a clear view on whetehr your rubber duck is or isn't? Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. ...but still incredibly low comapred with may other substances. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. I'll keep it away from my steamed salmon then. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. That's quite a dose in anything larger than a barrel. Doe sit happen? Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. How much would you need? Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: Those poor old soil microbes. In what doses, for how long? One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. In what doses? Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. In what doses? Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. herbicides? Any particular herbicide? That's enough vague nonsense. -- Anton |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews... You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. Being able to feed your children *now* takes priority over the future, when the money is not available to buy organic. How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I'm trying, I'm trying..... There is just too much to know and not nearly enough time to lift for real info. That's why I asked if you just happen to already know of a site I could get objective information from. I want to know everthing, but I've come to the conclusion that I will die trying ;-) Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. Wow! Why? It's so odd these days to not have *ever* taken anti-biotics. You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Agreed, but scared mothers, with sick children, tend to listen to someone who knows more about it than they do. That would be the "caring family physician". Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. Very good. Is that not common sense? Not every society sterilizes everything their babies touch and eat. They build stronger immune systems because of it. I will admit, they also lose more babies to disease, however, there species becomes stronger (survival of the fitest and all) while we westerners are becoming weaker. It's a priority today. Why is washing hands before eating a priority today? We don't have more germs, just less resistance to them. Most people today, in western society, just consider it gross not to wash your hands insesently, not thinking about the actual purpose. It has just become a societal standard. I don't subscribe and I *almost* never get sick. It is a rare occasion indeed, for me to be ill. Did you bath almost daily? Nope. LOL :-) Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. Agreed. I believe there have been some chemicals banned because of their toxicity. I'm not sure we can do without chemicals completely, though. I'm not sure we could go back to farming the way we did 100 years ago and feed the populations we have today. The use of those chemicals is what has made agriculture able to keep up with the growing population, I believe. I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"anton" wrote in message ... Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. LOL :-)) Where do I get Nike seeds? OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. So will everyone else that wants to live long, but that has nothing to do with herbicides ;-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:49:55 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote: Malcolm wrote in message 4a74b2e931751f1b12b9499abcefa76c@TeraNews... Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, Really? Why are you using a technology that involves hundreds or thousands of chemicals thne instead of a quill pen, hypocrite? you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! Have you ever used a car or a plane? Do you ever buy anything that comes by a powered vehicle? But there's no substitute for hard work, is there? - so walk. You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. And the people use millions of tons of paint, instead of lime-wash. We live in rooms that are painted! Go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. Well, go to the foot of our stairs. You get a lot of aquatic plants on my drive. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. Yeah. So do the scores of trees I've planted 'alter the ecology of [planted] areas'. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Nope. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Have you read anything entitled "response of people to not living nasty brutish short disease-ridden povetry-struck lives without chemicals" ? I thought not. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Well, I haven't noticed any difference to the moose round here since I started using Roundup. I haven't noticed any moose round here at all, ot be honest. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: With an LD50 of 4000mg/kg? Don't make me laugh. What's the LD50 of table salt, by the way? Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. How kind. Normal testing only kills 50%. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Tried drinking 100ml of bleach? 100 tablets of paracetamol? It's a nasty rough world out there. Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. but you don't mention any quantities. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. potential? Care to make a list of common chemicals that appear in households that are potential endocrine disruptors? have you got a clear view on whetehr your rubber duck is or isn't? Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. ..but still incredibly low comapred with may other substances. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. I'll keep it away from my steamed salmon then. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. That's quite a dose in anything larger than a barrel. Doe sit happen? Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. How much would you need? Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: Those poor old soil microbes. In what doses, for how long? One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. In what doses? Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. In what doses? Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. herbicides? Any particular herbicide? That's enough vague nonsense. Easy to see how Monsanto make so much money, with gullible people like you around, to buy highly toxic substances you don't even need anyway! I bet you have a star named after you, and even an acre of the moon? Must have seen you coming miles off. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:53:18 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews. .. You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. Being able to feed your children *now* takes priority over the future, when the money is not available to buy organic. Your choice, it really is. Have you tried grow your own? How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I'm trying, I'm trying..... That's all one can ask of oneself, to try and improve things. Well done, many people just cannot be bothered. There is just too much to know and not nearly enough time to lift for real info. That's why I asked if you just happen to already know of a site I could get objective information from. I want to know everthing, but I've come to the conclusion that I will die trying ;-) Haha.. Well just keep looking out for the bulletins on newsgroups. You could also have a look at http://www.safetyalerts.com/ http://www.foodsafety.gov/ For an insight into food safety throughout the world. OR just go to any search engine and type food safety warnings, if you get the chance. Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. Wow! Why? It's so odd these days to not have *ever* taken anti-biotics. Maybe it's the "healthy diet" ;-) You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Agreed, but scared mothers, with sick children, tend to listen to someone who knows more about it than they do. That would be the "caring family physician". Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware! Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. Very good. Is that not common sense? Not every society sterilizes everything their babies touch and eat. They build stronger immune systems because of it. I will admit, they also lose more babies to disease, however, there species becomes stronger (survival of the fitest and all) while we westerners are becoming weaker. It's a priority today. Why is washing hands before eating a priority today? We don't have more germs, just less resistance to them. Most people today, in western society, just consider it gross not to wash your hands insesently, not thinking about the actual purpose. It has just become a societal standard. I don't subscribe and I *almost* never get sick. It is a rare occasion indeed, for me to be ill. But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one comes into contact with, what have they been up to? There was a survey done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!! Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more. It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk. Did you bath almost daily? Nope. LOL :-) Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. Agreed. I believe there have been some chemicals banned because of their toxicity. I'm not sure we can do without chemicals completely, though. I'm not sure we could go back to farming the way we did 100 years ago and feed the populations we have today. The use of those chemicals is what has made agriculture able to keep up with the growing population, I believe. I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we being force fed? I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. No doubt about it. It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better, at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh.
Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what the topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a little "hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals. Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten out and really worked a day of their lives. Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how to use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I saw that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of no-till plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts" say he is really dead. While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a threat to the environment or "US". suzy orr |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article om,
Michelle Fulton writes "Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews. .. Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. That is not self evident. Research in the UK has shown that women nowadays spend very little less time cleaning than they used to, despite so many more of them in paid work. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:50:56 -0400, "Suzy Orr"
wrote: Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh. Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what the topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a little "hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals. Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten out and really worked a day of their lives. Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how to use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I saw that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of no-till plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts" say he is really dead. While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a threat to the environment or "US". How tall the tales of those who have a hidden agenda, versus those who gain nothing from telling the truth, except integrity. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:0f59758214370daba9ce7ba88cf7e283@TeraNews... Your choice, it really is. But that's my point....sometimes people just don't have a choice other than buying the cheapest food they can find. Have you tried grow your own? I'm making a little start with my herb garden. My soil, climate, lack of time and dog won't allow for much more at the moment. I will expand gradually. I really would love to move to the country and grow my own food, but it's just not practical, or even possible. You could also have a look at http://www.safetyalerts.com/ http://www.foodsafety.gov/ For an insight into food safety throughout the world. Very good. Thanks for the links :-) Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware! Good common sense. But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one comes into contact with, what have they been up to? ROTFL :-))) I just don't think about it. There was a survey done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!! I know it's gross, but I just don't worry about it. Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more. LOL :-)) It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk. That's my point. It's just gross in today's society, but it's just the thought of it, not the usefulness of it that motivates most people to do it. I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we being force fed? People want more for their money. We (the US) are a gluttonous, lazy, spoiled society, no doubt, but that's not because the government, as some evil separate entity, is forcing it on us. We just are because it's human nature to take the easy way out and take all one can get when the gettin's good. Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. No doubt about it. It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better, at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it? So it seems, but you have just thwarted your own argument about how what you do today will effect your future health. Sure, the chemicals we ingest with our food may cause problems down the road, but compromising the immune systems of our species is going to cause greater problems down the road, I think. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 19:04:36 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:0f59758214370daba9ce7ba88cf7e283@TeraNews. .. Your choice, it really is. But that's my point....sometimes people just don't have a choice other than buying the cheapest food they can find. Have you tried grow your own? I'm making a little start with my herb garden. My soil, climate, lack of time and dog won't allow for much more at the moment. I will expand gradually. I really would love to move to the country and grow my own food, but it's just not practical, or even possible. But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change there. You could also have a look at http://www.safetyalerts.com/ http://www.foodsafety.gov/ For an insight into food safety throughout the world. Very good. Thanks for the links :-) Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware! Good common sense. But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one comes into contact with, what have they been up to? ROTFL :-))) I just don't think about it. Haha but if it's happening, how can you not think about it? There was a survey done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!! I know it's gross, but I just don't worry about it. You should. Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more. LOL :-)) It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk. That's my point. It's just gross in today's society, but it's just the thought of it, not the usefulness of it that motivates most people to do it. But knowing about the gross, ensures I wash my own hands regularly. I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we being force fed? People want more for their money. We (the US) are a gluttonous, lazy, spoiled society, no doubt, You're not alone. but that's not because the government, as some evil separate entity, is forcing it on us. No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on it. We just are because it's human nature to take the easy way out and take all one can get when the gettin's good. But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself, cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings, fit for five people but served only for one! Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. No doubt about it. It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better, at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it? So it seems, but you have just thwarted your own argument about how what you do today will effect your future health. Sure, the chemicals we ingest with our food may cause problems down the road, but compromising the immune systems of our species is going to cause greater problems down the road, I think. Greater or lesser, they are still problems brought on by our own neglect for ourselves. Care about ourselves and then we can care about each other. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:21144e269cdfb81908fac84d5fbb45b7@TeraNews... But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change there. And I do. Every little bit.... No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on it. I think stupidity and lack of responsibility for the results of one's own actions is growing right along with our waistlines. But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself, cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings, fit for five people but served only for one! I know, I know, but it's still just human nature (literally in our genes) to indulge in times of plenty, in order to survive the lean times. Our times of plenty are just lasing too darn long these days so we are having to overcome instinct, basically. It's hard to overcome, but I'm trying. Some days I just say.....oh, what the heck, and eat that steak (not 4 pounds though) ;-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 19:49:52 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:21144e269cdfb81908fac84d5fbb45b7@TeraNews. .. But you can watch what you eat. A little change here, a little change there. And I do. Every little bit.... Well done. You might find some handy hints for home grown in the gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys despite what the trolls here would have you think :-) No, it the businesses that are doing it. Which is also OK, but we are big and ugly enough to know when enough is enough and should act on it. I think stupidity and lack of responsibility for the results of one's own actions is growing right along with our waistlines. Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-) But we don't need to, it's damaging to ourselves, it's damaging to global resources. Why grow/raise two of everything, when we only really need one? Next time you feel like making a pig of yourself, cast an eye to the famine zones of the world, think what they would do for just a bowl of rice, let alone a 4lb steak with all the trimmings, fit for five people but served only for one! I know, I know, but it's still just human nature (literally in our genes) to indulge in times of plenty, in order to survive the lean times. Our times of plenty are just lasing too darn long these days so we are having to overcome instinct, basically. It's hard to overcome, but I'm trying. Some days I just say.....oh, what the heck, and eat that steak (not 4 pounds though) ;-) Haha. I do sympathize with you, life is crap a lot of the time anyhow, what the heck why not! OK, just start afresh tomorrow then, but don't give in without a fight! lol -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:904f8e7f517f75ca79d6e0fcc5d0c0a2@TeraNews... You might find some handy hints for home grown in the gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys despite what the trolls here would have you think :-) I did just subscribe to austin.gardening as their climate is most like mine (they have to deal with the extreme heat also, which reaks havoc with most garden plants), but I bet I could still get some good tips from the uk group too. Thanks :-) Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-) And we should, but it's the manufacturers and distributors we should be fighting, I think, rather than the farmers. OK, just start afresh tomorrow then, but don't give in without a fight! lol Ok :-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:08:49 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. What is the FSA? The UK Food Standards Agency http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/ -- Peter Duncanson UK |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 20:17:56 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:904f8e7f517f75ca79d6e0fcc5d0c0a2@TeraNews. .. You might find some handy hints for home grown in the gardening groups, such as uk.rec.gardening we're all friendly guys despite what the trolls here would have you think :-) I did just subscribe to austin.gardening as their climate is most like mine (they have to deal with the extreme heat also, which reaks havoc with most garden plants), but I bet I could still get some good tips from the uk group too. Thanks :-) You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on. What fruits can you grow? Without doubt, you are 100% right, it's what the manufacturers/producers want. It's how they got away with all this junk food, factory farming etc in the first place. Some of us have just woken up, and we are fighting back ;-) And we should, but it's the manufacturers and distributors we should be fighting, I think, rather than the farmers. Yeah but it starts with the farmers. The ones I have met are brought up on subsidies, and don't care less about the customer, quite content to just lie there and die in misery, moaning about their lot! Well, UK farmers anyhow. It obviously makes me unpopular with them, I am only on one christmas card list, but what the heck, lifes to short not to wind someone up! ;-) Lifes too short to hold grudges, I'll talk to anyone. Some of the farmers are doing well though, determined to adapt, change with the times, meet new markets etc. They had one on the TV last week, from Devon I think, who makes cheeses full time now, all in house, from grass for the cows, to finished product for the shops, a great little business. Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:070b216513d55bcfdbc61125474739bc@TeraNews... You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on. I can't imagine anyone being interested :-/ What fruits can you grow? I don't know. Peach trees seem to do ok, here, but the birds eat all the peaches. The problem with our climate is the extremes. Lots of plants can't tolerate the heat of summer and lots can't tolerate the harsh winter we can have. I haven't planted any fruit bearing trees, as shade is what I'm after currently. Pecan trees are very hardy and popular here. I'm not a good one to ask, as I'm just getting into all of this, and don't know much yet. Oh, I think melons grow well here, but that doesn't make sense, does it? Seems like they would need more moisture than we get??? I think melons, squash and such, that have big leaves to protect the fruit from the sun, do ok. I can say that I don't see any fruit crops around these parts. I see lots of corn, grass or hay, and cotton being grown. If you don't have lots of time to put into it and the ability to shield your plants from the harsh environment, you just don't get much out of it. Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well. Someone has to sell just milk. They can't all turn it into cheese. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews... On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton" wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. .. How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid? Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist, Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you would drown in it! Clearly nonsense. rather than partial drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally inhaling Roundup as a liquid? Quite. I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect. Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it "seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK. That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them. Smoking a typical example. Unlike when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other year if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards and learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me feel sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. Plants are full of insecticides but I suppose you eat them all the time. Seems daft to me. FWIW when tested using the same mechanisms as for man-made pesticides, 50% of the naturally evolved pesticides tested were found to cause cancer including chemicals in brocolli, lettuce and coffee. Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that havent been shown to cause cancer. -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 20:56:03 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:070b216513d55bcfdbc61125474739bc@TeraNews. .. You can always pop in and let us peasants know how you are getting on. I can't imagine anyone being interested :-/ Of course we are, we all started somewhere. It's good to learn from the experience of others. What fruits can you grow? I don't know. Peach trees seem to do ok, here, but the birds eat all the peaches. The problem with our climate is the extremes. Lots of plants can't tolerate the heat of summer and lots can't tolerate the harsh winter we can have. I haven't planted any fruit bearing trees, as shade is what I'm after currently. Pecan trees are very hardy and popular here. I'm not a good one to ask, as I'm just getting into all of this, and don't know much yet. Oh, I think melons grow well here, but that doesn't make sense, does it? Seems like they would need more moisture than we get??? I think melons, squash and such, that have big leaves to protect the fruit from the sun, do ok. Sounds great... Mind you, plenty of insects no doubt? I can say that I don't see any fruit crops around these parts. I see lots of corn, grass or hay, and cotton being grown. If you don't have lots of time to put into it and the ability to shield your plants from the harsh environment, you just don't get much out of it. Well don't give up yet, there' ll be plenty who went before you, happy to share their stories. Many can change, but wont, they'll still sell milk for a pittance and whine about it...Oh well. Someone has to sell just milk. Trouble is there are too many. They can't all turn it into cheese. Yoghurt? :) -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 22:01:53 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews. .. On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton" wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. .. How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid? Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist, Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you would drown in it! Clearly nonsense. rather than partial drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally inhaling Roundup as a liquid? Quite. I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect. Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it "seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK. That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them. Smoking a typical example. Unlike when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other year if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards and learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me feel sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. Plants are full of insecticides but I suppose you eat them all the time. Seems daft to me. FWIW when tested using the same mechanisms as for man-made pesticides, 50% of the naturally evolved pesticides tested were found to cause cancer including chemicals in brocolli, lettuce and coffee. Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that havent been shown to cause cancer. A plant is a plant, we cant do anything about it's substance, but we can stop adding toxins to it. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Michelle Fulton" wrote in message gy.com... "anton" wrote in message ... Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. LOL :-)) Where do I get Nike seeds? OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. Columbia bad, British Columbia Good, can you see a trend ;) |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Suzy Orr" wrote in message ... Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh. Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what the topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a little "hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals. Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten out and really worked a day of their lives. Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how to use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I saw that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of no-till plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts" say he is really dead. While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a threat to the environment or "US". yes, we've all seen them do it.Reps in the UK did the same. Indeed it is getting quite funny as a lot of the anti-GM environmental lobby are now saying GM is bad because it will mean that weeds develop resistance to a really safe herbicide like Roundup so much faster I suppose you could gain honest amusement from watching the two wings of the green movement contradicting each other Jim Webster suzy orr |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 23:17:12 +0100, "Jim Webster"
wrote: "Suzy Orr" wrote in message ... Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh. Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what the topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a little "hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals. Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten out and really worked a day of their lives. Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how to use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I saw that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of no-till plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts" say he is really dead. While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a threat to the environment or "US". yes, we've all seen them do it.Reps in the UK did the same. Indeed it is getting quite funny Almost as funny as that Conservative wallah force feeding his kids burgers during the BSE crisis, how funny is that now? Lets hope your family doesn't live to regret your stupidity. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Hämisch Macbeth" wrote in message ... Columbia bad, British Columbia Good, can you see a trend ;) ;-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message
news:22a58d516fd1574410838038e9a126ab@TeraNews... Lets hope your family doesn't live to regret your stupidity. Oh, come one, Malcolm :-o With your sig, you have to have a sense of humor! Lighten up. Life is very short for all of us. To enjoy it is the key :-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Michelle Fulton writes
I also wash all of my produce before consumption. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? Most of it. Fortunately: 1) It reduces by biological action quite quickly over time. 2) Few will move to new growth (ie, stays on the leaf it fell on) and so goes when the leaf senesces. 3) There are strict timings for spray to harvest intervals. 4) Pesticides these days are stunningly non-toxic to humans. This is very good for those who apply them. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Tumbleweed writes
Plants are full of insecticides but I suppose you eat them all the time. Seems daft to me. FWIW when tested using the same mechanisms as for man-made pesticides, 50% of the naturally evolved pesticides tested were found to cause cancer including chemicals in brocolli, lettuce and coffee. See ames evidence to congress (well some committee, anyway). ====== a reply I wrote recently Very many plants are toxic. I have read that some 15% of the drymatter of typical plants comprises toxins (but I find this hard to believe). Most toxins seem to be directed primarily at insects. That's hardly surprising as they are the major pest of plants. Typically only a small range of insects will feed on any given plant, they will die or not thrive on another species simply because they are not adapted to cope with toxins other than that of their selected plant. Some insects concentrate the plant toxin to render themselves poisonous. Some toxins found in plants: Curcubin - squash/courgettes (killed a numebr in NZ a few yrs ago). Solanin - members of the potato family. Mustard oil - brassicae A few plants I have forgotten the toxin name: celery cottonseed red kidney beans Note that many edible plants are packed with toxins, it makes them easy to grow because they have few pests. Plants also arrange for a number of physical barriers, hairs and sticky gums for example. Capsicain (sp) - the 'hot' bit of chillies is not hot to birds. Many tree leaves (eg oaks) pack their leaves with tannins, that bind protein so it cannot be digested. This drastically reduces or stops growth in many pests. NB One I forgot, which is well documented, is phytoestrogens. These are very common in plants and in some members of the legume family are at high enough levels to cause serious effects on breeding. It's long been known that feeding ewes on clovery swards at tupping time can result in a near total failure to conceive because the ewes do not cycle, effectively the phytoestrogen level in the feed acting in the same way as 'the pill'. What this level of oestrogens does to the ram I do not know. Basically, in the few hundred million years animals have been eating plants, one ought to expect a wide, varied and devious range of mechanical and chemical armaments to have been evolved, together with countermeasures. Nature rarely disappoints. ====================== There is no reason to believe that naturally occurring pesticides will be safe to humans (and rather the contrary) and of course none have been tested and approved in the way that pesticides are. Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that havent been shown to cause cancer. Indeed. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Michelle Fulton writes
Wow! Why? It's so odd these days to not have *ever* taken anti-biotics. You will when you get your first tooth abcess, trust me. Mind you I shocked the dentist when I told him I had never had an antibiotic until then. I wasn't 'young', either (although feel young, the evidence is to the contrary). -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 16 May 2003 03:01:38 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:22a58d516fd1574410838038e9a126ab@TeraNews. .. Lets hope your family doesn't live to regret your stupidity. Oh, come one, Malcolm :-o With your sig, you have to have a sense of humor! Lighten up. Life is very short for all of us. To enjoy it is the key :-) That's not fair, he doesn't have one! lol -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 16 May 2003 06:50:56 +0100, Oz
wrote: Michelle Fulton writes I also wash all of my produce before consumption. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? 4) Pesticides these days are stunningly non-toxic to humans. Really, lets take a random example crop. carrots and corn, what's sprayed on them that is non toxic, and what is toxic, in your mind of course? Lets not forget the herbicides that were sprayed first? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article ,
Oz wrote: Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that havent been shown to cause cancer. Indeed. I seem to remember reading of a study which showed that at least the alkaloid pesticides in many food plants (fruits spring to mind) are elevated in organically grown plants due to the higher pest load they have to deal with. Pests not having been blitzed with nasty 'chemicals'. But of course 'natural' pesticides must be good for you compared with 'chemical' pesticides. Peter -- Peter Ashby School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded. Reverse the Spam and remove to email me. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Fri, 16 May 2003 16:43:35 +0100, Peter Ashby
wrote: In article , Oz wrote: Either the tests are wrong, or plants are just as dangerous as the man-made chemicals you complain about and are actually more dangerous than ones that havent been shown to cause cancer. Indeed. I seem to remember reading of a study which showed that at least the alkaloid pesticides in many food plants (fruits spring to mind) are elevated in organically grown plants due to the higher pest load they have to deal with. Pests not having been blitzed with nasty 'chemicals'. But of course 'natural' pesticides must be good for you compared with 'chemical' pesticides. Unnatural seems to have had a marked effect on you? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:868cf3bf5a2380696138d9090f9c7987@TeraNews... That's not fair, he doesn't have one! lol Jim has a great sense of humor! You just have to lighten up so you can appreciate it :-) I personally try to find humor in everything. I just like to laugh and, in order not to appear insane walking around laughing at nothing, I have to find excuses to laugh. :)~ M |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:09 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter