There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.
The idea was that instead of laying down black plastic sheeting/old
carpet or whatever on bare soil over the winter, you sow the ground to
grow a crop eg. mustard, which will cover the ground, prevents weeds,
nourish the soil, and then in February/March, you simply dig it into
the soil which will then be ready for sowing/planting whatever you
really want to grow.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do people think about it?

Ken Cohen

On 19 Jul 2003 02:10:04 -0700, (ken cohen)
wrote:

There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.

How much does Gardening Which? cost?
How much does Which? cost
--
martin

ken cohen wrote:


There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.
The idea was that instead of laying down black plastic sheeting/old
carpet or whatever on bare soil over the winter, you sow the ground to
grow a crop eg. mustard, which will cover the ground, prevents weeds,
nourish the soil, and then in February/March, you simply dig it into
the soil which will then be ready for sowing/planting whatever you
really want to grow.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do people think about it?

Ken Cohen


Well several 100 years of agriculture seem to prove it works. Mustard
is just one of many 'cover crops' sometimes rather confusingly called
'green manures' (which to many minds would conjour up a pile of
something green and evolving!-) which protect the soil from the element
and create a microclimate which allows normal soil health to continue
between true crops.

We have used, among others, mustard ( short term, don't use where other
cabbage fam to be planted), phacelia (great for bees), field beans
overwintered, grazing rye.. (HArd to dig in but grat for longer term and
soil improvement) and lupin.. Both the beans and lupins will fix N to
some degree if the correct bacteria are present in the soil. and they
ususally are.

You do need a thick enoguh cover to compete with the weeds and this
won't work for things like Bindweed, couch or tree seedlings;-) It is
meant as a rotation or cover crop on cultivated ground rather than
primary weed mulch which is what black plastic is used for in some
instances
//
Jim

In article , ken cohen
writes
There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.
The idea was that instead of laying down black plastic sheeting/old
carpet or whatever on bare soil over the winter, you sow the ground to
grow a crop eg. mustard, which will cover the ground, prevents weeds,
nourish the soil, and then in February/March, you simply dig it into
the soil which will then be ready for sowing/planting whatever you
really want to grow.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do people think about it?

It's a good idea, but while it will crowd out annual weeds, it won't
prevent perennial weeds or the tougher annual weeds. So once you have
your bed sorted and free of difficult weeds, it's a good way to deal
with any times you're not planting crops in it. But it's not so good for
preparing new ground. Or so I would have thought.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

It certainly does work.

Legumes are good to use as the fix nitrogen. Tares used to be common ( type
of vetch used for horse feed)

We use a similar technique on commercial plantings of tree and shrub whips.
underplant with wheat. It reseeds for the first three years and there is no
need to spray out for weed. The downside it rats so not a good idea in a
small garden



www.arghamvillage.co.uk

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/cl...5/homepage.htm




"ken cohen" wrote in message
om...
There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.
The idea was that instead of laying down black plastic sheeting/old
carpet or whatever on bare soil over the winter, you sow the ground to
grow a crop eg. mustard, which will cover the ground, prevents weeds,
nourish the soil, and then in February/March, you simply dig it into
the soil which will then be ready for sowing/planting whatever you
really want to grow.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do people think about it?

Ken Cohen

In article , ken cohen
writes
There was an article on this subject in this month's Gardening Which.
The idea was that instead of laying down black plastic sheeting/old
carpet or whatever on bare soil over the winter, you sow the ground to
grow a crop eg. mustard, which will cover the ground, prevents weeds,
nourish the soil, and then in February/March, you simply dig it into
the soil which will then be ready for sowing/planting whatever you
really want to grow.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what do people think about it?

It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

The August "Gardening Which" article on green manures also reported
particularly good results from phacelia and crimson clover. Are
there any contra-indications for using these as green manures?


Ken Cohen

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

The August "Gardening Which" article on green manures also reported
particularly good results from phacelia and crimson clover. Are
there any contra-indications for using these as green manures?


Ken Cohen

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

The August "Gardening Which" article on green manures also reported
particularly good results from phacelia and crimson clover. Are
there any contra-indications for using these as green manures?


Ken Cohen

On 20 Jul 2003 00:40:56 -0700, (ken cohen)
wrote:

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

If you really want to grow organic you need to get the soil checked to
ensure that it's not full of the previous user's chemicals.


--
martin

ken cohen wrote:

Alan Gould wrote in message
... It is an excellent
organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

The August "Gardening Which" article on green manures also reported
particularly good results from phacelia and crimson clover. Are
there any contra-indications for using these as green manures?

Clover is technically a 'bean' eg its a legume so you could count it as
such in rotation. Phacelia isn't IIRC related to any commonly grown crop
so no probs there.. Clover is like grazing rye and beans in that you
can leave it for longer periods by cutting and regrowing. 1 or more
years in the acase of clover and ryr and several seasons in the case of
beans....

OG catalogue and many other good mail order sources do some very good
books that include the subject.. There are a number of variations on
crop rotation, eg 6 way, 4 way.. etc..

I can recommend the Encyclopedia of ORganic Gardening by Geoff
Hamilton.. However I suggest you check out your local library first,
and maybe some book reviews online, before choosing 1 or 2 and ordering
via www.bookbrain.co.uk

See also the FAQ's of URG on allotments, organic gardening etc,
//
Jim
--------------------
uk.rec.gardening - FAQ Page
http://www.tmac.clara.co.uk/urgring/urgfaqs.htm

What is organic gardening
http://www.nugget.demon.co.uk/MetaFA...gardening.html
Sunday, July 20, 2003

"What is a rotational system?"
A kitchen garden will require a wide variety of crops to be grown in
fairly small quantities. If the same type of plant is grown repeatedly
in the same place, the soil will build up a resistance to it and the
crop will suffer from pests and diseases. To avoid this, the crops are
rotated so that they grow in soil fresh to them each year. The main
groups of plants are the potato/tomato family; brassicas, that's all the
cabbage range; legumes, i.e. peas and beans; roots and salad crops etc.
Ideally the plot is split into five sections and the crops rotated round
those, giving each section a rest after four years of growing. If the
amount of crop grown is less intensive, the plot could be split into
four quarters, but close attention should be paid to soil health and
fertility. Companion planting and selection of disease resistant crops
can help towards keeping a busy garden healthy.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:06:37 +0100,
(Jim W) wrote:


I can recommend the Encyclopedia of ORganic Gardening by Geoff
Hamilton.. However I suggest you check out your local library first,
and maybe some book reviews online, before choosing 1 or 2 and ordering
via www.bookbrain.co.uk

www.abe.com is a good source of second hand books.
--
martin

In article , ken cohen
writes

Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes?

Yes - it's called botanical nomenclature ;-)

For example, the cabbage family form one element of the standard 3-way
rotation, and IIRC legumes form another. The cabbage family is
Cruciferae, legumes are Leguminaceae. Within each family, closely elated
plants are grouped into genera - so in the legumes we have the vetches,
Vicia, the peas, Pisum and the beans Phaseolus. Broad beans are the
species Vicia faba, and the named varieties of broad bean are varieties
of this species.

So - find what species your planned crop is, see what family the genus
is in, and Bob's your uncle ;-)

Note I'm not seriously suggesting this as a practical way of answering
your question, but just trying to underline the point that apparently
incomprehensible latin names do have a logic behind them and practical
uses.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , ken cohen
writes
Alan Gould wrote in message
news:eV5FNdCzFXG$Ewnf@a
golincs.demon.co.uk...
It is an excellent organic way to condition soil. We have been doing it
for more years than we choose to remember. There are a wide variety of
green manure seed available for differing uses of the area. Mustard is
very good, but as it is a brassica it should be avoided on veg. patches
to be used for cabbages etc. Similarly soil being prepared to grow e.g.
sweet corn, should not be green manured with grazing rye, or
agricultural lupins used on an area intended for peas and beans. Green
manuring should be seen as part of the garden's crop rotational plan.

The Chase/Organic Gardening Catalogue offers many varieties of green
manure seed with very helpful cultural hints, sowing times, densities
etc. at:
www.OrganicCatalog.com


Thanks for that. I am hoping to use my new allotment to grow
vegetables, including cabbages, so I will avoid mustard. But this
raises a more general question about how to rotate crops sensibly.
Is there some comprehensive database of compatible and incompatible
crops for rotation purposes? The Chase Organic Gardening Catalogue,
although full of interesting stuff, didn't seem to help on that
particular issue, but I may have missed something.

The August "Gardening Which" article on green manures also reported
particularly good results from phacelia and crimson clover. Are
there any contra-indications for using these as green manures?

Clover is a legume, so should be avoided where peas and beans are to be
grown. Phacelia is fairly neutral in the crop rotational sense, but it
is one green manure I have not myself tried.

*Other information can be found in the Organic Gardening Catalogue.
*In depth details can be viewed via the HDRA website at www.hdra.org.uk.
*A lot of other useful related details are contained in my urg FAQ about
Organic Gardening at:
http://www.nugget.demon.co.uk/MetaFA...gardening.html
*Gardeners practising organic methods will be happy to answer questions
about it here in urg.

--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.