my grapes are turning themselves into raisins, as you can see here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rleigh/index.html. It is a 4 year old black
hamburgh and produced four good bunches last year. The vine grows
along the ridge of an unheated greenhouse. It may be too close to the
glass and I might be overcropping it a bit. help please!

The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

my grapes are turning themselves into raisins, as you can see here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rleigh/index.html. It is a 4 year old black
hamburgh and produced four good bunches last year. The vine grows
along the ridge of an unheated greenhouse. It may be too close to the
glass and I might be overcropping it a bit. help please!

They aren't raisins, they're rotting.

A four year old Black Hamburg ought to be carrying more than four bunches.

1) Do you know when to prune?
2) do you know how to prune?
3) are the roots inside or outside the greenhouse?
4) have you any ventilation, and if so, do you use it? (The best way is
to have two roof-lights, one of which opened automatically with a
bi-metal strip.)
5) what fertiliser (if any) are you using?
6) Have you noticed any grey mould on the vine or elsewhere in the greenhouse?

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

Rusty Hinge wrote in message ...
The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

my grapes are turning themselves into raisins, as you can see here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rleigh/index.html. It is a 4 year old black
hamburgh and produced four good bunches last year. The vine grows
along the ridge of an unheated greenhouse. It may be too close to the
glass and I might be overcropping it a bit. help please!

They aren't raisins, they're rotting.

A four year old Black Hamburg ought to be carrying more than four bunches.

1) Do you know when to prune?
2) do you know how to prune?
3) are the roots inside or outside the greenhouse?
4) have you any ventilation, and if so, do you use it? (The best way is
to have two roof-lights, one of which opened automatically with a
bi-metal strip.)
5) what fertiliser (if any) are you using?
6) Have you noticed any grey mould on the vine or elsewhere in the greenhouse?

Thank you for the response. 1 yes 2 yes 3 inside 4 yes and yes 5
manure water plus tomato feed 6 no

The grapes aren't rotting - the effect really is quite raisin like to
look at - ie they are drying up and mummifying

After some further googling I have discovered this page on the RHS
website: http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile...e_shanking.asp

and am 900% confident that shanking is the problem both from their
photo and description (both well worth looking at)

Many thanks for your help

Rusty Hinge wrote in message ...
The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

my grapes are turning themselves into raisins, as you can see here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rleigh/index.html. It is a 4 year old black
hamburgh and produced four good bunches last year. The vine grows
along the ridge of an unheated greenhouse. It may be too close to the
glass and I might be overcropping it a bit. help please!

They aren't raisins, they're rotting.

A four year old Black Hamburg ought to be carrying more than four bunches.

1) Do you know when to prune?
2) do you know how to prune?
3) are the roots inside or outside the greenhouse?
4) have you any ventilation, and if so, do you use it? (The best way is
to have two roof-lights, one of which opened automatically with a
bi-metal strip.)
5) what fertiliser (if any) are you using?
6) Have you noticed any grey mould on the vine or elsewhere in the greenhouse?


correction:900% should be 90%

I found the question, and the RHS link, most useful. I have a 5 or 6
year-old chasselas white vine growing outdoors here (W Brittany) which I am
maybe guilty of having overcropped. Whatever, this year the central section
(i.e. the section of oldest wood, and closest to the stem) has many dark and
shrivelled grapes, and is losing its leaves pretty quickly at present. The
other sections, which flowered a little later, and fairly normal. I have
suspected cold damage to the earliest fruit, but now wonder whether I
haven't been pruning and cropping too much, compounding the problem.
David

"billtheburglar" wrote in message
m...
my grapes are turning themselves into raisins, as you can see here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rleigh/index.html. It is a 4 year old black
hamburgh and produced four good bunches last year. The vine grows
along the ridge of an unheated greenhouse. It may be too close to the
glass and I might be overcropping it a bit. help please!

The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

Thank you for the response. 1 yes 2 yes 3 inside 4 yes and yes 5
manure water plus tomato feed 6 no

Too much nitrogen, I'd guess. You should not give grape vines any extra
nitrogen, or they will produce loads of long, lush laterals, loads of
leaves, and very few grapes.

The French advise burying a (dead!) donkey and planting your vine on
that. A load of old bones and old shoes, woollens etc would do just as
well. (Works wonders for rhubarb and runner bean trenches too.)

I don't know what to say about where you've planted it - it's much
better planted outside the greenhouse, but short of moving the
greenhouse or the vine......

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

The message
from "david" contains these words:

I found the question, and the RHS link, most useful. I have a 5 or 6
year-old chasselas white vine growing outdoors here (W Brittany) which I am
maybe guilty of having overcropped. Whatever, this year the central section
(i.e. the section of oldest wood, and closest to the stem) has many dark and
shrivelled grapes, and is losing its leaves pretty quickly at present. The
other sections, which flowered a little later, and fairly normal. I have
suspected cold damage to the earliest fruit, but now wonder whether I
haven't been pruning and cropping too much, compounding the problem.

You can't really prune a vine too much, unless you start removing the
main part. When the leaves have dropped, prune off all the laterals
*LEAVING TWO BUDS*.

When the fruit has set you can get the secateurs out again and remove
all the laterals without fruit, and prune off the ends of the fruiting
laterals leaving three or four leaves beyond the bunch.

Do not do this second pruning too early as the cuts will bleed, and that
may well kill the vine.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

Thank you for the response. 1 yes 2 yes 3 inside 4 yes and yes 5
manure water plus tomato feed 6 no

Too much nitrogen, I'd guess. You should not give grape vines any extra
nitrogen, or they will produce loads of long, lush laterals, loads of
leaves, and very few grapes.

The French advise burying a (dead!) donkey and planting your vine on
that. A load of old bones and old shoes, woollens etc would do just as
well. (Works wonders for rhubarb and runner bean trenches too.)

I don't know what to say about where you've planted it - it's much
better planted outside the greenhouse, but short of moving the
greenhouse or the vine......

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

The message
from "david" contains these words:

I found the question, and the RHS link, most useful. I have a 5 or 6
year-old chasselas white vine growing outdoors here (W Brittany) which I am
maybe guilty of having overcropped. Whatever, this year the central section
(i.e. the section of oldest wood, and closest to the stem) has many dark and
shrivelled grapes, and is losing its leaves pretty quickly at present. The
other sections, which flowered a little later, and fairly normal. I have
suspected cold damage to the earliest fruit, but now wonder whether I
haven't been pruning and cropping too much, compounding the problem.

You can't really prune a vine too much, unless you start removing the
main part. When the leaves have dropped, prune off all the laterals
*LEAVING TWO BUDS*.

When the fruit has set you can get the secateurs out again and remove
all the laterals without fruit, and prune off the ends of the fruiting
laterals leaving three or four leaves beyond the bunch.

Do not do this second pruning too early as the cuts will bleed, and that
may well kill the vine.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

The message
from (billtheburglar) contains these words:

Thank you for the response. 1 yes 2 yes 3 inside 4 yes and yes 5
manure water plus tomato feed 6 no

Too much nitrogen, I'd guess. You should not give grape vines any extra
nitrogen, or they will produce loads of long, lush laterals, loads of
leaves, and very few grapes.

The French advise burying a (dead!) donkey and planting your vine on
that. A load of old bones and old shoes, woollens etc would do just as
well. (Works wonders for rhubarb and runner bean trenches too.)

I don't know what to say about where you've planted it - it's much
better planted outside the greenhouse, but short of moving the
greenhouse or the vine......

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.

The message
from "david" contains these words:

I found the question, and the RHS link, most useful. I have a 5 or 6
year-old chasselas white vine growing outdoors here (W Brittany) which I am
maybe guilty of having overcropped. Whatever, this year the central section
(i.e. the section of oldest wood, and closest to the stem) has many dark and
shrivelled grapes, and is losing its leaves pretty quickly at present. The
other sections, which flowered a little later, and fairly normal. I have
suspected cold damage to the earliest fruit, but now wonder whether I
haven't been pruning and cropping too much, compounding the problem.

You can't really prune a vine too much, unless you start removing the
main part. When the leaves have dropped, prune off all the laterals
*LEAVING TWO BUDS*.

When the fruit has set you can get the secateurs out again and remove
all the laterals without fruit, and prune off the ends of the fruiting
laterals leaving three or four leaves beyond the bunch.

Do not do this second pruning too early as the cuts will bleed, and that
may well kill the vine.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk excange d.p. with p to reply.