In article ,
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:

And try posting a few items on
gardening.

I have done and doubtless will again, though not, I suspect, at your
command.

Then may I suggest posting a few more to this group? And a few less
telling people that their perfectly good use of English is wrong.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:

And try posting a few items on
gardening.

I have done and doubtless will again, though not, I suspect, at your
command.

Then may I suggest posting a few more to this group? And a few less
telling people that their perfectly good use of English is wrong.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:

And try posting a few items on
gardening.

I have done and doubtless will again, though not, I suspect, at your
command.

Then may I suggest posting a few more to this group? And a few less
telling people that their perfectly good use of English is wrong.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

(1) Yes, I know - it's six of one and half a dozen of the other ;-)

That applies to posters, books,
magazines and so on. When the vernacular conveys the right meaning,
we use it. When we need to distinguish between species, we start
to use Latin.

Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

Some posters use almost all English names; some use
a mixture. Nobody except you gives a damn when a poster refers to
lichen as moss, when it is clear what is meant.

Well, I've just pointed out that fairy moss isn't a moss it's a fern ;-)


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

Is it? Care to post a few Google references on gardening posts,
in a reasonably strict sense?

I know that Malcolm Ogilvie knows a great deal about wildlife,
though I wish he wouldn't drop into propaganda so readily, but I
have my doubts that he is even as much of a botanist as I am,
and have seen no evidence that he is a gardener. He may simply not
like posting about it, but that would seem, er, out of character.

That applies to posters, books,
magazines and so on. When the vernacular conveys the right meaning,
we use it. When we need to distinguish between species, we start
to use Latin.

Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

Isn't that roughly what I said? It is clear that the organisation
to which you refer has to be pretty non-scientific, because English
names rapidly become useless when you need to get down to the
subspecies level. And a lot of the biodiversity threats in the UK
are to subspecies, rather than to species - if fo no other reason
that we have almost NO endemic species of plants!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:


I say, Nick and Malcolm, one of you is a black kettle and the other is a
black pot. What about stopping this eternal dogfight witihout further ado?
It really does not matter one iota which of you has the last word.

Franz
Franz

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On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:02:33 +0100, Kay Easton wrote:

... When the vernacular conveys the right meaning,
we use it. When we need to distinguish between species, we start
to use Latin.

Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

That's what I thought Nick said.

--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.

The message
from Malcolm Ogilvie contains these words:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:

[*] It is arrogant and offensive because it is based on the premise
that the Great Unwashed British Public are too stupid to learn to
use Latin names

I wonder how many urglers use scientific names, putting those who don't
into your decidedly "offensive" category of "the Great Unwashed British
Public" who are "too stupid" to learn to use them. How charming :-(

Thank you for misquoting me.

I quoted two uncut paragraphs from your post.

If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Oh dear, insults and ignorance now. I am both a serious gardener and a
regular denizen of this newsgroup. Just as are a great many people who
never ever post here.

Stop trying to be so dictatorial.

That from you!! I like it!

And try posting a few items on
gardening.

I have done and doubtless will again, though not, I suspect, at your
command.

Fred Dev.
Do try to play nicely children.
/Fred

--
Frère Jaques
They knocked the Bell down and erected a charade of pops.

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:38:34 +0100, Jaques d'Altrades wrote:

Looked up 'horsetail' in The Concise British Flora
and it wasn't there.

Nor is it still, but I notice now that there are no ferns in it either.

I don't know, but isn't the Concise British Flora a book on flowering
plants? Then they wouldn't be in it.
--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

Is it? Care to post a few Google references on gardening posts,
in a reasonably strict sense?

Why should she and what would that prove either way? By no means
everyone reading this newsgroup posts here and not all stick to posting
about gardening!

I know that Malcolm Ogilvie knows a great deal about wildlife,
though I wish he wouldn't drop into propaganda so readily,

Yes, well, your views about what constitutes "propaganda" and mine will
never match.

but I
have my doubts that he is even as much of a botanist as I am,

Just for the record, and without wishing to score points or even enquire
how "much of a botanist" you regard yourself as, I have been an amateur
botanist since I was a teenager, have published a checklist of the flora
of Islay and Jura, have carried out several botanical surveys here to
the standard required by Scottish Natural Heritage, and have just been
appointed the Botanical Society of the British Isles Recorder for this
vice-county.

and have seen no evidence that he is a gardener. He may simply not
like posting about it, but that would seem, er, out of character.

I manage my half-acre garden to produce fruit, vegetables, flowers,
attract wildlife in considerable variety and regard it as a pleasant
place to have surrounding the house. Whether or not that makes me a
gardener is for others to determine. I derive a lot of very useful
information about gardening from reading this newsgroup which contains
many experts who give of their knowledge freely and without your
didacticism.

--
Malcolm Ogilvie

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

Is it? Care to post a few Google references on gardening posts,
in a reasonably strict sense?

That's not relevant to what you implied - that Malcolm is neither a
serious gardener nor a regular denizen of this group. I'm answering that
he is a regular denizen of the group - if you want proof, then you are
as capable as I am of looking up his record on Google.


Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

Isn't that roughly what I said? It is clear that the organisation
to which you refer has to be pretty non-scientific,

'The organisation to which I refer' is highly respected and has done a
great deal for conservation of species and habitat in this country.
Obviously they need to address their publicity if such a knowledgeable
botanist as yourself has not heard of them ;^)

Anyway, I'm not out to get you! IMO you both need your heads banging
together
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

Is it? Care to post a few Google references on gardening posts,
in a reasonably strict sense?

I know that Malcolm Ogilvie knows a great deal about wildlife,
though I wish he wouldn't drop into propaganda so readily, but I
have my doubts that he is even as much of a botanist as I am,
and have seen no evidence that he is a gardener. He may simply not
like posting about it, but that would seem, er, out of character.

That applies to posters, books,
magazines and so on. When the vernacular conveys the right meaning,
we use it. When we need to distinguish between species, we start
to use Latin.

Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

Isn't that roughly what I said? It is clear that the organisation
to which you refer has to be pretty non-scientific, because English
names rapidly become useless when you need to get down to the
subspecies level. And a lot of the biodiversity threats in the UK
are to subspecies, rather than to species - if fo no other reason
that we have almost NO endemic species of plants!

How about dropping out of this thread?

Franz

In article , Kay Easton
writes
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
If you were a serious gardener, or even a regular denizen of this
:group, you would know that most people use whatever language they
feel appropriate for the context.

Nick, that's a bit unfair! (1) Malcolm has been in this group for at
least a couple of years. He may not post as often as some of us, but
he's a pretty constant lurker, always ready to pop up and answer a
wildlife question, which is his speciality.

Is it? Care to post a few Google references on gardening posts,
in a reasonably strict sense?

That's not relevant to what you implied - that Malcolm is neither a
serious gardener nor a regular denizen of this group. I'm answering that
he is a regular denizen of the group - if you want proof, then you are
as capable as I am of looking up his record on Google.


Not quite convinced of that ;-)
For example, Plantlife, the charity concerned with preserving our wild
flowers, uses the english names, with the latin name following
sometimes, but not always. In conservation circles, vernacular names
seem the norm - I guess because when everyone is talking about the same
country, there's less chance of confusion. It seems to be mainly the
fungi people who talk latin, probably because so many fungi look similar
and haven't had any traditional names.

Isn't that roughly what I said? It is clear that the organisation
to which you refer has to be pretty non-scientific,

'The organisation to which I refer' is highly respected and has done a
great deal for conservation of species and habitat in this country.
Obviously they need to address their publicity if such a knowledgeable
botanist as yourself has not heard of them ;^)

Anyway, I'm not out to get you! IMO you both need your heads banging
together

Please Miss, please Miss, he started it......:-)

Ouch, Miss :-(

--
Malcolm Ogilvie

Reply-To: "Franz Heymann"
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"Malcolm Ogilvie" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Just for the record, and without wishing to score points or even enquire
how "much of a botanist" you regard yourself as, I have been an amateur
botanist since I was a teenager, have published a checklist of the flora
of Islay and Jura, have carried out several botanical surveys here to
the standard required by Scottish Natural Heritage, and have just been
appointed the Botanical Society of the British Isles Recorder for this
vice-county.

Just for the record, bully for you.
Now will you please stop posting to this thread?

[snip]

Franz

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Anyway, I'm not out to get you!

Why not? They are both probably superb gardeners and/or botanists, but they
have been behaving like a pair of obstreperous ten-year-olds for long enough
by now.

{:-((

IMO you both need your heads banging
together


Franz