Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

I am not quite replying to your exact question but hopefully, I will add
something of use here.

You mentioned that the site was exposed to wind, and you were proposing to
build a wall. Well its just that walls are not that good a acting as wind
breaks. The problem is that the wind hits your wall and is diverted up and
over. The results is lots of eddys and a more buffetting effect on the
leeward side of the wall.

A tall hedge on the other hand filters the wind. The wind hits your hedge
and is slowed down by the branches twigs and leaves. In these circumstancs
the leeward side of the hedge would be a more peaceful place than the
leeward side of a wall.

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?

I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?

Try ex-urgler cormaic's site, www.pavingexpert.

We moved (from a rural garden well over 3 acres) partly because of
rapidly increasing traffic noise and nuisance. In our situation, it was
mostly tourist traffic; IOW, it was at its worst at exactly the times we
wanted to be outside enjoying the garden, in good weather and all
holiday periods.

Is this industrial traffic (might be quieter at weekends)? Sports or
tourist-attraction traffic, could be worse at weekends? You're seeing it
in winter; is it likely to be quieter now than in summer? Visit the area
during rush hours. Do people chug past in a slow tail of traffic at 30
mph, or race past at 70? Can you get in and out of the gate safely at
busy times? Is the traffic mostly cars, or huge reverberating trucks?
Shut yourself in the bedrooms, listen to the noise, and ask yourself if
you'll be able to sleep with a window open.

I'd think very, very hard if I were you, about what you want from your
garden and what you can tolerate. IMHO you won't shut out traffic noise
or fumes from one acre, with a wall (or anything else).

Janet.

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Well, really! If you're that suspicious of us.....

......you can tell us when it's yours.

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?

Maybe. You'd be surprised just how much noise a good dense hedge will
absorb. Walls are expensive things to build, though in the right
position can be used to grow fruit against.

You will need to get planning permission probably. If it's windy and
really exposed, lengths of wall tend to come down. Think
'crinkly-crankly': you use more bricks, but it is not likely to be blown
over.

Best to attend an evening class in bricklaying: it's not really
difficult. I was taught by Old Bob, [1] a brickie's labourer - he was in
his nineties and still labouring. (It got a bit much for him when he was
ninety eight (IIRC) and he got a job cleaning Mr. Whippy vans.)

I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?

Oops! Got a bit ahead of myself there! Old Bob taught me properly, using
matured lime mortar and having the frogs in the bricks on the underside
so water doesn't seep into them and freeze during the winter. Nowadays,
because it's easier and quicker, brickies tend to lay courses with the
frogs upwards. "Oh, that's all right as long as you point them
well....." Pah!

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Well, really! If you're that suspicious of us.....

......you can tell us when it's yours.

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?

Maybe. You'd be surprised just how much noise a good dense hedge will
absorb. Walls are expensive things to build, though in the right
position can be used to grow fruit against.

You will need to get planning permission probably. If it's windy and
really exposed, lengths of wall tend to come down. Think
'crinkly-crankly': you use more bricks, but it is not likely to be blown
over.

Best to attend an evening class in bricklaying: it's not really
difficult. I was taught by Old Bob, [1] a brickie's labourer - he was in
his nineties and still labouring. (It got a bit much for him when he was
ninety eight (IIRC) and he got a job cleaning Mr. Whippy vans.)

I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?

Oops! Got a bit ahead of myself there! Old Bob taught me properly, using
matured lime mortar and having the frogs in the bricks on the underside
so water doesn't seep into them and freeze during the winter. Nowadays,
because it's easier and quicker, brickies tend to lay courses with the
frogs upwards. "Oh, that's all right as long as you point them
well....." Pah!

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

"Philip" wrote in message
.. .

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

I am not quite replying to your exact question but hopefully, I will add
something of use here.

You mentioned that the site was exposed to wind, and you were proposing to
build a wall. Well its just that walls are not that good a acting as wind
breaks. The problem is that the wind hits your wall and is diverted up
and
over. The results is lots of eddys and a more buffetting effect on the
leeward side of the wall.

A tall hedge on the other hand filters the wind. The wind hits your hedge
and is slowed down by the branches twigs and leaves. In these
circumstancs
the leeward side of the hedge would be a more peaceful place than the
leeward side of a wall.

And that is not just a legend. I had a book (where is the damn thing?) with
test results from research on hedges and walls as windbreaks. A hedge
provides wind shelter for more than twice as far downwind than a wall of the
same height.

Franz

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:01 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Philip" wrote in message
. ..

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

I am not quite replying to your exact question but hopefully, I will add
something of use here.

You mentioned that the site was exposed to wind, and you were proposing to
build a wall. Well its just that walls are not that good a acting as wind
breaks. The problem is that the wind hits your wall and is diverted up
and
over. The results is lots of eddys and a more buffetting effect on the
leeward side of the wall.

A tall hedge on the other hand filters the wind. The wind hits your hedge
and is slowed down by the branches twigs and leaves. In these
circumstancs
the leeward side of the hedge would be a more peaceful place than the
leeward side of a wall.

And that is not just a legend. I had a book (where is the damn thing?) with
test results from research on hedges and walls as windbreaks. A hedge
provides wind shelter for more than twice as far downwind than a wall of the
same height.

It's a bit like the difference between a solid break water/sea walls
and barriers of large loose rocks, now so popular in North East
England's sea defences.
The first diverts waves and the second absorbs waves.
--
Martin

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
: The message
: from Jane Lumley contains these words:
:
: Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
: of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
: :).
:
: Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
: noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
: walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?
:
: I've looked at several
: websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
: anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
: those night-school bricklaying courses?
:
: Try ex-urgler cormaic's site, www.pavingexpert.
:
: We moved (from a rural garden well over 3 acres) partly because of
: rapidly increasing traffic noise and nuisance. In our situation, it was
: mostly tourist traffic; IOW, it was at its worst at exactly the times we
: wanted to be outside enjoying the garden, in good weather and all
: holiday periods.
:
: Is this industrial traffic (might be quieter at weekends)? Sports or
: tourist-attraction traffic, could be worse at weekends? You're seeing it
: in winter; is it likely to be quieter now than in summer? Visit the area
: during rush hours. Do people chug past in a slow tail of traffic at 30
: mph, or race past at 70? Can you get in and out of the gate safely at
: busy times? Is the traffic mostly cars, or huge reverberating trucks?
: Shut yourself in the bedrooms, listen to the noise, and ask yourself if
: you'll be able to sleep with a window open.
:
: I'd think very, very hard if I were you, about what you want from your
: garden and what you can tolerate. IMHO you won't shut out traffic noise
: or fumes from one acre, with a wall (or anything else).
:
: Janet.
:
I would agree with Janet. We live in a suburban cul-de-sac approx 5 miles
from Heathrow. We obviously get a certain amount of aircraft noise and if
the wind is in a certain direction and they are using a certain runway, the
planes take off overhead which can be unbearable - but better now that
Concorde is no longer with us - but does not happen too often. However, my
point is that we always say we prefer to live here than on a road that has
constant traffic noise day and night. Mind you, we may feel differently
when we get the 5th terminal, 3rd runway, etc etc.......

K

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:01 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Philip" wrote in message
. ..

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an
acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps
me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building
brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at
several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one
of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

I am not quite replying to your exact question but hopefully, I will
add
something of use here.

You mentioned that the site was exposed to wind, and you were proposing
to
build a wall. Well its just that walls are not that good a acting as
wind
breaks. The problem is that the wind hits your wall and is diverted up
and
over. The results is lots of eddys and a more buffetting effect on the
leeward side of the wall.

A tall hedge on the other hand filters the wind. The wind hits your
hedge
and is slowed down by the branches twigs and leaves. In these
circumstancs
the leeward side of the hedge would be a more peaceful place than the
leeward side of a wall.

And that is not just a legend. I had a book (where is the damn thing?)
with
test results from research on hedges and walls as windbreaks. A hedge
provides wind shelter for more than twice as far downwind than a wall of
the
same height.

It's a bit like the difference between a solid break water/sea walls
and barriers of large loose rocks, now so popular in North East
England's sea defences.
The first diverts waves and the second absorbs waves.

Yes. Identical principles.
The principle of least efficient fluid flow - to - mechanical energy
conversion.

Franz

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad? I've looked at several
websites and the art of bricklaying seems very jargon laden. Does
anyone know of a site in plain English? And has anyone ever done one of
those night-school bricklaying courses?
--
Jane Lumley

Search out from yellow pages a company that simply does bricklaying you will
find they should only charge per 1000 bricks and the cost will be much
cheaper than you think
However you do need to use good bricks .,,......as many ordinary faced ones
like LBC are unsuitable because wet and frost blows face off the bricks

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

The message
from Jaques d'Alltrades contains these words:

Best to attend an evening class in bricklaying: it's not really
difficult. I was taught by Old Bob, [1] a brickie's labourer - he was in
his nineties and still labouring. (It got a bit much for him when he was
ninety eight (IIRC) and he got a job cleaning Mr. Whippy vans.)

Missing footnote:

[1] Not as brewed by Ridleys, but quite as good.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?


I'd think very, very hard if I were you, about what you want from your
garden and what you can tolerate. IMHO you won't shut out traffic noise
or fumes from one acre, with a wall (or anything else).

Secondary double glazing does a better job of shutting out traffic noise
than the all in one stuff - you need a larger air gap for sound
insulation than you do for heat insulation. We have double glazed units
plus secondary double glazing on the front of the house, and that cuts
out noise quite effectively.

A house is quite good at blocking out noise, so if you can arrange it so
you do most of your living the side away from the road it will be more
tolerable.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

In article , Philip
writes


I am not quite replying to your exact question but hopefully, I will add
something of use here.

You mentioned that the site was exposed to wind, and you were proposing to
build a wall. Well its just that walls are not that good a acting as wind
breaks. The problem is that the wind hits your wall and is diverted up and
over. The results is lots of eddys and a more buffetting effect on the
leeward side of the wall.

A tall hedge on the other hand filters the wind. The wind hits your hedge
and is slowed down by the branches twigs and leaves. In these circumstancs
the leeward side of the hedge would be a more peaceful place than the
leeward side of a wall.

But a hedge is fairly rubbish at cutting out noise. Though you'll need a
very tall wall to cut out the traffic sound. A bank with a hedge on top
might do quite well if you have the room - no experience of that, but
it's what they seem to be doing alongside new bypasses nowadays.



--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:55:51 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

Thanks so much to all for your help - we've found a house with an acre
of land.... but I'm not saying any more in case one of you gazumps me!
:).

Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and traffic
noise, so dh and I are eager to make a walled garden by building brick
walls around at least part of it. Are we mad?


I'd think very, very hard if I were you, about what you want from your
garden and what you can tolerate. IMHO you won't shut out traffic noise
or fumes from one acre, with a wall (or anything else).

Secondary double glazing does a better job of shutting out traffic noise
than the all in one stuff - you need a larger air gap for sound
insulation than you do for heat insulation. We have double glazed units
plus secondary double glazing on the front of the house, and that cuts
out noise quite effectively.

A house is quite good at blocking out noise, so if you can arrange it so
you do most of your living the side away from the road it will be more
tolerable.

It enabled us to hear the planes passing a 1000 feet above our heads
more clearly :-)
--
Martin

Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
 

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:58:18 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:


But a hedge is fairly rubbish at cutting out noise. Though you'll need a
very tall wall to cut out the traffic sound. A bank with a hedge on top
might do quite well if you have the room - no experience of that, but
it's what they seem to be doing alongside new bypasses nowadays.

It doesn't mean that it is effective.

The Dutch installed hundreds of kilometers of sound barriers along
urban parts of their motorways, before somebody made some independent
sound measurements and proved that the stuff was not effective.

Locally somebody did some tests that demonstrated that in a gale the
whole lot my blow over, so they made lots of really big holes in it.
--
Martin