In article , Martin Sykes
writes

This site sort of confirms what i thought: http://www.worldtime.com

On the following page it gives sunset and sunrise times for various cities.
Edinburgh, Liverpool and Cardiff have about the same sunset. Coventry and
Newcastle have the same slightly earlier sunset and they're all later than
London. So, it's the east-west that affects the sunset time, and its the
north-south that affects how strong the sunlight is.

Around the equinox (as we are now), north and south have similar length
days, but the latitude comes into play the further away we are from the
equinox roughly 8 mins for every 1 degree of latitude.

Think about it - at the equator, the day length in our midsummer is 12
hours; at the N pole the day length is 24 hours. So either there is a
line somewhere, N of which the day is 24 hours and S of which, 12 hours;
or the day gradually grown longer the further north you go.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:08:26 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

from Frogleg contains these words:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:28:02 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

LOL. Have you visited the northern half of the UK, Frogleg? :-)

No. Just London. However, because it's darker there in winter,
there'll be *more* sun in summer, no?

No :-) If only!

I do stand by my advice -- the
more sun, the better.

Depends what you're growing and at what latitude. Jo is in France;
further south and warmer than the UK with less cloud cover, more sun,
and more intense light.

In some circumstances, afternoon shade and wind shelter could be
preferable.
Hot afternoon sun and wind together is fine for herbs, maquis and
coastal plants with narrow/ hard/ silvery leaves etc but can be a deadly
combination for plants with large soft green leaves like tomatoes,
lettuce, beans or potatoes.

I'm going to have to draw some diagrams for myself. :-) I know that
the further north you (in the northern hemisphere), the longer the
summer day is. It may be true that the sunlight is less intense,
however.

In midsummer we get nearly 23 hours of daylight, but it's nothing like
the brilliant high-intensity light nearer the Equator...cloudy skies are
a common feature of north UK summers.

They certainly grow veg, incl. tomatoes in Fairbanks, which
is approx. 65N.

There's a big difference between continental climate and the UK's
maritime one.

Janet.

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:08:26 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

from Frogleg contains these words:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:28:02 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

LOL. Have you visited the northern half of the UK, Frogleg? :-)

No. Just London. However, because it's darker there in winter,
there'll be *more* sun in summer, no?

No :-) If only!

I do stand by my advice -- the
more sun, the better.

Depends what you're growing and at what latitude. Jo is in France;
further south and warmer than the UK with less cloud cover, more sun,
and more intense light.

In some circumstances, afternoon shade and wind shelter could be
preferable.
Hot afternoon sun and wind together is fine for herbs, maquis and
coastal plants with narrow/ hard/ silvery leaves etc but can be a deadly
combination for plants with large soft green leaves like tomatoes,
lettuce, beans or potatoes.

I'm going to have to draw some diagrams for myself. :-) I know that
the further north you (in the northern hemisphere), the longer the
summer day is. It may be true that the sunlight is less intense,
however.

In midsummer we get nearly 23 hours of daylight, but it's nothing like
the brilliant high-intensity light nearer the Equator...cloudy skies are
a common feature of north UK summers.

They certainly grow veg, incl. tomatoes in Fairbanks, which
is approx. 65N.

There's a big difference between continental climate and the UK's
maritime one.

Janet.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:39:15 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

from Frogleg contains these words:

They certainly grow veg, incl. tomatoes in Fairbanks, which
is approx. 65N.

There's a big difference between continental climate and the UK's
maritime one.

Right. It doesn't seem fair that NW Europe gets all the benefit of the
Gulf Stream, which just waves at us as it zips north. The winter I was
in Stavanger, Norway, it only got down to 0C just one night between
New Year's and mid-February. Here at home there were 2 blizzards and
nightime temperatures around -10C, in spite of being nearly 15 degrees
further south. AND on the coast.

Back to the sun question, it seems that northern sun, even in winter,
*is* 'thinner'. However, all the more reason to locate a garden where
it gets every bit that's available.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:39:15 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

from Frogleg contains these words:

They certainly grow veg, incl. tomatoes in Fairbanks, which
is approx. 65N.

There's a big difference between continental climate and the UK's
maritime one.

Right. It doesn't seem fair that NW Europe gets all the benefit of the
Gulf Stream, which just waves at us as it zips north. The winter I was
in Stavanger, Norway, it only got down to 0C just one night between
New Year's and mid-February. Here at home there were 2 blizzards and
nightime temperatures around -10C, in spite of being nearly 15 degrees
further south. AND on the coast.

Back to the sun question, it seems that northern sun, even in winter,
*is* 'thinner'. However, all the more reason to locate a garden where
it gets every bit that's available.

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Ophelia

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Ophelia

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:43:43 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:


"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
.. .
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Some work in the dark too. "My boss treats me like a mushroom, he
keeps me in the dark and throws crap on me... "
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"martin" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:43:43 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:


"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message
.. .
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look
at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so
I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would
be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Some work in the dark too. "My boss treats me like a mushroom, he
keeps me in the dark and throws crap on me... "

Best place for you ))

"martin" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:43:43 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:


"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message
.. .
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look
at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so
I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would
be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Some work in the dark too. "My boss treats me like a mushroom, he
keeps me in the dark and throws crap on me... "

Best place for you ))

"martin" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:43:43 -0000, "Ophelia"
wrote:


"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in
message
.. .
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Eh? So why in summer is sunset later in scotland compared to SW?

My 'guess' (and I may be completely wrong here) is that if you look
at a
map, Scotland is further west than most of England but we are in the
same
time zone. The further west you are, the later the sun will set so
I'd
expect that if you look at the figures closely, the sunset time in
Scotland
say for Glasgow, would be similar to that for Cornwall and both would
be
much later than sunset in Kent.

You are completely wrong :-)

The far north of Scandinavia is called land of the midnight sun..the
nights hardly get dark at all. In midsummer, Scotland also gets very
short hours of darkness; much shorter than Cornwall.

In midwinter Scandinavian people get very little daylight and Scotland
is pretty dim too..a bare 7 hours. Much darker than Cornwall.
Janet (Scotland)

Absolutely correct.. for Scotland I mean

In the height of summer it doesn't get dark and in winter I go to work in
the dark and return in the dark

Some work in the dark too. "My boss treats me like a mushroom, he
keeps me in the dark and throws crap on me... "

Best place for you ))

I'm replying from work via Google and was going to reply to Janet but
for some reason she doesn't show up in google groups !?

( I'm not completely wrong, but definitely missing a big part of the
picture )

The sun does set later as you go west but because of the angle of the
earth's axis, it's not quite as simple as I suggested and is affected
by latitude too. That's sort of irrelevent though because as others
pointed out, it's the day length and strength of light that matters,
not what the time of day is.

So some other questions:

Is it better for plants to have long days of weak sun, or shorter days
of strong sun? At which latitude is the greatest total amount of
energy received from the sun each day?

How does it affect plants which are regulated by day length?

Is it the angle to the sun or is it the extra atmosphere that the
light goes through? If it's really just the angle, then I should be
able to get tropical levels of sunlight by rigging up a suitably
angled mirror to reflect the light. eg. at the poles, a mirror of
1m*1.41m at 45 degrees would catch 1 sq m of light and reflect it to
the ground as if it had come from directly above. Maybe this could be
designed into greenhouse roofs so that they had one side of the roof
angled with mirrors instead of glass to give the effect of direct
sunlight from above?

I'm replying from work via Google and was going to reply to Janet but
for some reason she doesn't show up in google groups !?

( I'm not completely wrong, but definitely missing a big part of the
picture )

The sun does set later as you go west but because of the angle of the
earth's axis, it's not quite as simple as I suggested and is affected
by latitude too. That's sort of irrelevent though because as others
pointed out, it's the day length and strength of light that matters,
not what the time of day is.

So some other questions:

Is it better for plants to have long days of weak sun, or shorter days
of strong sun? At which latitude is the greatest total amount of
energy received from the sun each day?

How does it affect plants which are regulated by day length?

Is it the angle to the sun or is it the extra atmosphere that the
light goes through? If it's really just the angle, then I should be
able to get tropical levels of sunlight by rigging up a suitably
angled mirror to reflect the light. eg. at the poles, a mirror of
1m*1.41m at 45 degrees would catch 1 sq m of light and reflect it to
the ground as if it had come from directly above. Maybe this could be
designed into greenhouse roofs so that they had one side of the roof
angled with mirrors instead of glass to give the effect of direct
sunlight from above?

I'm replying from work via Google and was going to reply to Janet but
for some reason she doesn't show up in google groups !?

( I'm not completely wrong, but definitely missing a big part of the
picture )

The sun does set later as you go west but because of the angle of the
earth's axis, it's not quite as simple as I suggested and is affected
by latitude too. That's sort of irrelevent though because as others
pointed out, it's the day length and strength of light that matters,
not what the time of day is.

So some other questions:

Is it better for plants to have long days of weak sun, or shorter days
of strong sun? At which latitude is the greatest total amount of
energy received from the sun each day?

How does it affect plants which are regulated by day length?

Is it the angle to the sun or is it the extra atmosphere that the
light goes through? If it's really just the angle, then I should be
able to get tropical levels of sunlight by rigging up a suitably
angled mirror to reflect the light. eg. at the poles, a mirror of
1m*1.41m at 45 degrees would catch 1 sq m of light and reflect it to
the ground as if it had come from directly above. Maybe this could be
designed into greenhouse roofs so that they had one side of the roof
angled with mirrors instead of glass to give the effect of direct
sunlight from above?

On 18 Mar 2004 07:07:44 -0800,
(Martin Sykes) wrote:

I'm replying from work via Google and was going to reply to Janet but
for some reason she doesn't show up in google groups !?

X- No Archive YES


( I'm not completely wrong, but definitely missing a big part of the
picture )

The sun does set later as you go west but because of the angle of the
earth's axis, it's not quite as simple as I suggested and is affected
by latitude too. That's sort of irrelevent though because as others
pointed out, it's the day length and strength of light that matters,
not what the time of day is.

So some other questions:

Is it better for plants to have long days of weak sun, or shorter days
of strong sun? At which latitude is the greatest total amount of
energy received from the sun each day?

In the tropics, where the sun is directly overhead.


How does it affect plants which are regulated by day length?

Is it the angle to the sun or is it the extra atmosphere that the
light goes through?

It's both.

If it's really just the angle, then I should be
able to get tropical levels of sunlight by rigging up a suitably
angled mirror to reflect the light. eg. at the poles, a mirror of
1m*1.41m at 45 degrees would catch 1 sq m of light and reflect it to
the ground as if it had come from directly above. Maybe this could be
designed into greenhouse roofs so that they had one side of the roof
angled with mirrors instead of glass to give the effect of direct
sunlight from above?

The trouble is that mirrors absorb some energy, because they are not
perfect reflectors. You can get the same effect, but with 100 %
efficiency by growing plants on terraces like they do with vines in
the Rhine and Mosel valleys.
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad