I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.


The best chance of identifying it is when if flowers, as long, fine,
catkins. I'e taken pictures.
http://www.brunnian.f2s.com/pictures/catkin1.jpg (72Kb)
http://www.brunnian.f2s.com/pictures/catkin1.png (1.4Mb)
http://www.brunnian.f2s.com/pictures/catkin2.png (2.8Mb)
Given that I have never seen any fruits, I think it is male!

Any ideas what it might be? Anyone?

"Robert E A Harvey" wrote:
I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.
---
Robert,
Check out Voss's Laburnum.

MC

Mike Crossland wrote:
"Robert E A Harvey" wrote:
I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.
---
Robert,
Check out Voss's Laburnum.

Thanks, and a fair fit on the leaves - mine is not hairy, however. nor is
the flowering anything like.
It's puzzled me this one for years.

In article , Robert E A
Harvey writes
Mike Crossland wrote:
"Robert E A Harvey" wrote:
I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.
---
Robert,
Check out Voss's Laburnum.

Thanks, and a fair fit on the leaves - mine is not hairy, however. nor is
the flowering anything like.
It's puzzled me this one for years.



Could you try a closeup of the flowers? (Cut off an inflorescence and
photograph against a sheet of paper?) There's not many ternate-leaved
trees commonly planted in Britain, and none of the ones in Mitchell
looked a better match foliage-wise that laburnum. (Except as far as I
could tell, your tree as opposite-leaved foliage, and laburnum is
alternate-leaved.)

There's a number of ternate-leaved maples. (The 'catkins' look as if
they could be composed of immature maple fruits.) I don't think it's the
paper-bark maple, Acer griseum, as that has distinctive bark, and
distinct side-lobes to the basal leaflets. The rough-barked maple, Acer
triflorum, also has peeling bark and side-lobes to the basal leaflets.
The other two ternate-leaved maples in Mitchell are the Nikko maple,
Acer nikoense, and the vine-leaved maple, Acer cissifolium. (Also, all
these flower in May, so we wouldn't be expecting to see immature fruits
at this time.)

The population of Acer campestre on the ridge between Portishead and
Clevedon is also ternate-leaved, but it's clearly not this, as Acer
campestre bears its flowers erect.

Other trees with ternate leaves are some hickories (Carya) and common
walnut (Juglans regia) - there are alternate-leaved, and not (at least
usually) consistently ternate.

BTW, it's possible to perform a considerable lossy compression of your
images with limited loss of quality.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Robert E A Harvey17/4/04 9:06

Mike Crossland wrote:
"Robert E A Harvey" wrote:
I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.
---
Robert,
Check out Voss's Laburnum.

Thanks, and a fair fit on the leaves - mine is not hairy, however. nor is
the flowering anything like.
It's puzzled me this one for years.


Try a Google image search on Staphylea colchica or S. holocarpa
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , {$news$}
@meden.demon.co.uk says...
BTW, it's possible to perform a considerable lossy compression of your
images with limited loss of quality.

Is that an old Chinese proverb?

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:28:39 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

The population of Acer campestre on the ridge between Portishead and
Clevedon is also ternate-leaved, but it's clearly not this, as Acer
campestre bears its flowers erect.

Other trees with ternate leaves are some hickories (Carya) and common
walnut (Juglans regia) - there are alternate-leaved, and not (at least
usually) consistently ternate.

BTW, it's possible to perform a considerable lossy compression of your
images with limited loss of quality.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

It isn't Acer cissifolium - we have it here so I know that one quite
well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Acer except it's
flowering too early. I'd like to see a good close up of individual
flower.

Rod

Weed my email address to reply
http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html

On 17 Apr 2004 06:42:10 -0700, (Robert E A
Harvey) wrote:

I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.

My first thought was a form of Acer negundo, second thought was 'but
they have pinnate leaves' - then I looked at this.
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu:16080/c...f_forms_MC.jpg
It is a bit early for acers to be in flower though.

Rod

Weed my email address to reply
http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html

In article , Rod rodcraddoc
writes
On 17 Apr 2004 06:42:10 -0700, (Robert E A
Harvey) wrote:

I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.

My first thought was a form of Acer negundo, second thought was 'but
they have pinnate leaves' - then I looked at this.
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu:16080/c...mages/Acer/A_n
egundo/Three_leaf_forms_MC.jpg
It is a bit early for acers to be in flower though.

Acer platanoides (Norway Maple) is in flower at the moment. According to
Mitchell Acer negundo flowers in early March, in hanging bunches, which
would explain why the plant appears to be bearing immature keys. The
leaves of Acer negundo are ternate or 5- to 7-pinnate. I wouldn't expect
consistently ternate leaves on an individual tree, but that could be
ignorance on my part.

Googling for Acer negundo trifoliate finds a couple of other ternate-
leaved species - Acer buergeranum and Acer henryi.

I've checked my photographs of Staphylea, and S. colchica looks a fair
match for the leaves, but the flowers don't seem a match. A couple of
more species are S. trifolia (American Bladdernut) and Ptelea trifoliata
(Hoptree).
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Rod18/4/04 7:26
om

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:28:39 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:

The population of Acer campestre on the ridge between Portishead and
Clevedon is also ternate-leaved, but it's clearly not this, as Acer
campestre bears its flowers erect.

Other trees with ternate leaves are some hickories (Carya) and common
walnut (Juglans regia) - there are alternate-leaved, and not (at least
usually) consistently ternate.

BTW, it's possible to perform a considerable lossy compression of your
images with limited loss of quality.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

It isn't Acer cissifolium - we have it here so I know that one quite
well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Acer except it's
flowering too early. I'd like to see a good close up of individual
flower.

Something about the bark and the nodes make me think of elder. Not to any
good purpose, I may say. ;-(

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

The message
from "Robert E A Harvey" contains these words:

Check out Voss's Laburnum.

Thanks, and a fair fit on the leaves - mine is not hairy, however. nor is
the flowering anything like.
It's puzzled me this one for years.

I looked at the first pic, but the other two were far too big and would
have taken too long to download over a dial-up connection.

A jpg of the whole tree and another of the bark might be a help.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from Inge Jones contains these words:
In article , {$news$}
@meden.demon.co.uk says...

BTW, it's possible to perform a considerable lossy compression of your
images with limited loss of quality.

Is that an old Chinese proverb?

Are you trying to Confucius?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Rod18/4/04 7:40
om

On 17 Apr 2004 06:42:10 -0700, (Robert E A
Harvey) wrote:

I'e got this delicate little tree in the garden. At 25 years approx
it has stretched up to about 6m tall, and is about 150mm diameter at
the bole. It has tri-lobed divided leaves with pointed tips, and a
smooth, non-waxy surface.

My first thought was a form of Acer negundo, second thought was 'but
they have pinnate leaves' - then I looked at this.
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu:16080/c..._Images/Acer/A
_negundo/Three_leaf_forms_MC.jpg
It is a bit early for acers to be in flower though.

I emailed a pic to David Poole and got this reply:

"It is an Acer and it is almost certainly the highly variable Acer negundo -
and the images seem to portray mainly male inflorescences they are very
typical of the species. I've attached a pic of this Acer at a slightly
earlier stage and it is virtually identical. This Acer can carry numerous
leaf types on the same tree or just a single leaf type. Geographical
variations may exhibit pinnate, ternate or even simple leaves and leaf
margins can be serrated, indented or not."

For those who joined the group recent, David was - and I hope he will be
again when less busy - an immensely knowledgeable member of urg. I've never
known him wrongly identify anything.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Sacha wrote:
I emailed a pic to David Poole and got this reply:

"It is an Acer and it is almost certainly the highly variable Acer
negundo - and the images seem to portray mainly male inflorescences
they are very typical of the species.....

That's very interesting indeed. I've followed up all the other suggestions
very carefully, and they all appear to be blind alleys. This one seems
about spot-on, except two other references descibe the male floiwers as
corymbs; which I associate with an upright habit and all the florets forming
a plane. These are variable length and dangling. However these photos from
authorative sources seem to have clinched it:

Male:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life...negundo-1m.jpg
female:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life...negundo-2f.jpg
The parent web site also gives an English common name: Ash-leaved Maple,
which is nice

I also found, following your clues, Acer Negundo Californium
http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_....+californicum
where the florescences are much more exuberant then my little delicate
thing - though the picture of the main tree shows the same sparse leaf cover
even when fully developed.

So, a male Acer Negundo (Box Elder, Ash-Leaved Maple) will do for me. Now,
the next interesting bit. How did it get here? The examples above suggest
a north american range, on the atlantic seaboard, although two of the photos
are from Finland. Is mine a weed, or did a previous owner purchase it - and
if the latter, was it once sold commonly in garden centres? It's perfect
where it is, slow growing and small, and I like it a lot.

For those who joined the group recent, David was - and I hope he will
be again when less busy - an immensely knowledgeable member of urg.
I've never known him wrongly identify anything.

My thanks to both of you.