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#16
09-06-2004, 04:58 PM
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overgrown garden / jungle , new gardener needs help!
"gary davis" wrote in message ... On 6/4/04 2:06 PM, in article , "Franz Heymann" wrote: "gary davis" wrote in message ... On 5/30/04 3:43 AM, in article , "paulr" wrote: Hi, I`ve searched high and low to find some clear answers to how to clear an overgrown garden but without much luck. So i thought i`d just ask. I have just bought a house with a 60` x 25` garden and it currently has about 3 foot tall weeds covering all of it apart from a couple of trees. Any ideas on how to clear it. The idea is to returf the whole garden. Should i hire a petrol strimmer and clear it then turf it? or go at it with a lot of weed killer and wait a few weeks? any help would be greatly appriciated. thanks J Hi, I have read all the posts to date and am somewhat surprised that there are some who still suggest using a chemical to kill the weeds. "It will do no harm" is the usual response. Please list the types of harm which will result from the use of glyphosate. Gosh Franz I would think that it is a little early to tell. Maybe you should wait and ask your grandchildren...they will know if there is a problem or not. But unfortunately, then, it will be too late for us to change the results. The texture of plants killed with this 'stuff' is different. I don't know how to describe it. Dead? I remember in the early years of the 2nd World War when some Canadian soldiers were subjected to radiation (or something) and were told "It will do no harm"! That was not true! After hearing about that I am always suspect about anyone who says "It will do no harm!" And did whatever it was do any harm? The test was a mustard gas test. Burnt skin, lungs etc. Radiation? or something? Besides, the military establishment is, more often than not, very stupid indeed. Therefore, my suggestions are as follows and the reasons: A therefore should be preceded by some logical argument giving one or more "because"s before culminating in "Therefore........." Franz this is the WWW not English 101 and the topic is gardening. Yes. I was not commenting on your use of English, which is admirable. I commented on the lack of logicasl connectivity in the argument to which I referred. Firstly, cut down the weeds with some kind of mechanical tool... A man, for example, with a scythe. Or use a lawn mower raised to the highest cutting level. Or a weed eater...that's what we call them in Canada...probably the same as a petrol strimmer. It's a motorized or electric weed cutter downer!  You do want to do this before the weeds go to seed!It sounds like this particular area was at one time a garden. It should be easy digging! Dig it in, one shovel full at a time. Try to bury as much of the green leaves as you can. Dig, flip and roll the greenery into the bottom of the just dug hole. (Digging the first shovel full, turn over just on the edge of the hole you have just dug. As it rolls, the tops (green) will fall into the hole.) Try to cover any greenery left from the first shovel full with the following shovel full. Don't worry about the greenery left showing. Right now we want to get the whole garden turned over. We will look after the 'greenery left showing' later. Remember, we are doing this one shovel full at a time. Turn over a few shovel fulls then sit down with your favourite beverage and enjoy the work you have done! It looks good, doesn't it? What happened to the roots of the perennial weeds? Franz, really now! They are exposed to the elements just like all the weeds... In my youth, when I still dug, it was not possible to clear my garden of perennial weeds by digging them in. And just think-no chemicals! And you are using green compost! Good for the worms and that is good for whatever you plant there later. Very much less labour would be involved in using glyphosate to kill the weeds. After the weeds are well and truly dead, They are dead alright and their texture is disgusting. That does not affect the ability of the soil fauna and flora from turning them into compost. the leftovers can be raked up and put on a compost heap. I would never, never ever put them in my compost heap, but then just where do we put them? In the garbage? Where does the garbage go? To the ocean? Ouch! They decompose very satisfactorily when dug in *after they have been killed* The roots, which will be dead after the treatment, may be left to rot in the ground. Yes Franz...tell that to your grandchildren. And what you say about being easy is true. Yes it is easy but there is much to be learned about the long term affects of such a product that kills plants so effectively. If it sounds too good to be true...it probably is. Provide the evidence and I will cease using it. The available evidence at the moment says glyphosate is safe. Should you have any fledgling ice hockey players in your town, tell them you have a great way for them to improve their wrist shot or slap shot! (It will strengthen their wrists and arms). Get them to dig it for you. Be sure that they read the above instructions. Tell them you won't charge them for the experience. Well, good luck with that one! That's my 'how' and 'why'. No chemical is a good chemical...ask any worm...they work 24-7 and in the dark...as far as I know! Why do you want to dig at all? Firstly, to do our part to protect the environment and to get some exercise...digging is good for toning the arms and shoulders and after all it is only one shovel full at a time! Not when one is eighty and can walk only with difficulty. just mulch thickly with manure or compost. Franz good points made but we don't know where she lives and maybe she doesn't have manure or any compost where she lives. Manure and compost is available to anyone with a few pounds in the pocket and a car to transport the stuff. TIME OUT: Excuse me Ms...( I can't find her name...well, the Lady who posted this original question...it was a lady wasn't it? Do you have lots of compost? Do you have lots of manure like Franz suggests, to do what Franz suggested? Or maybe there are ice hockey players in town...Franz, do you have ice hockey players in your town? Get them to go over and help this lady with her garden...ah..yes...grass....weeds! I found no difficulty to find compost and manure when I was still town-bound. The worms will do the digging, 24/7 as you said. Yes Franz either way they will do the 'digging' unless we kill them off with unknown 'beneficial' chemicals. I am not talking abour what you call "unknown 'beneficial' chemicals". I am talking about a chemical about whose effects on the environment a great deal is known. Glyphosate has been shown not to affect worms to any noticeable effect. Franz |
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#17
09-06-2004, 05:46 PM
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overgrown garden / jungle , new gardener needs help!
"gary davis" wrote in message ... On 6/4/04 2:06 PM, in article , "Franz Heymann" wrote: "gary davis" wrote in message ... On 5/30/04 3:43 AM, in article , "paulr" wrote: Hi, I`ve searched high and low to find some clear answers to how to clear an overgrown garden but without much luck. So i thought i`d just ask. I have just bought a house with a 60` x 25` garden and it currently has about 3 foot tall weeds covering all of it apart from a couple of trees. Any ideas on how to clear it. The idea is to returf the whole garden. Should i hire a petrol strimmer and clear it then turf it? or go at it with a lot of weed killer and wait a few weeks? any help would be greatly appriciated. thanks J Hi, I have read all the posts to date and am somewhat surprised that there are some who still suggest using a chemical to kill the weeds. "It will do no harm" is the usual response. Please list the types of harm which will result from the use of glyphosate. Gosh Franz I would think that it is a little early to tell. Maybe you should wait and ask your grandchildren...they will know if there is a problem or not. But unfortunately, then, it will be too late for us to change the results. The texture of plants killed with this 'stuff' is different. I don't know how to describe it. Dead? I remember in the early years of the 2nd World War when some Canadian soldiers were subjected to radiation (or something) and were told "It will do no harm"! That was not true! After hearing about that I am always suspect about anyone who says "It will do no harm!" And did whatever it was do any harm? The test was a mustard gas test. Burnt skin, lungs etc. Radiation? or something? Besides, the military establishment is, more often than not, very stupid indeed. Therefore, my suggestions are as follows and the reasons: A therefore should be preceded by some logical argument giving one or more "because"s before culminating in "Therefore........." Franz this is the WWW not English 101 and the topic is gardening. Yes. I was not commenting on your use of English, which is admirable. I commented on the lack of logicasl connectivity in the argument to which I referred. Firstly, cut down the weeds with some kind of mechanical tool... A man, for example, with a scythe. Or use a lawn mower raised to the highest cutting level. Or a weed eater...that's what we call them in Canada...probably the same as a petrol strimmer. It's a motorized or electric weed cutter downer! You do want to do this before the weeds go to seed!It sounds like this particular area was at one time a garden. It should be easy digging! Dig it in, one shovel full at a time. Try to bury as much of the green leaves as you can. Dig, flip and roll the greenery into the bottom of the just dug hole. (Digging the first shovel full, turn over just on the edge of the hole you have just dug. As it rolls, the tops (green) will fall into the hole.) Try to cover any greenery left from the first shovel full with the following shovel full. Don't worry about the greenery left showing. Right now we want to get the whole garden turned over. We will look after the 'greenery left showing' later. Remember, we are doing this one shovel full at a time. Turn over a few shovel fulls then sit down with your favourite beverage and enjoy the work you have done! It looks good, doesn't it? What happened to the roots of the perennial weeds? Franz, really now! They are exposed to the elements just like all the weeds... In my youth, when I still dug, it was not possible to clear my garden of perennial weeds by digging them in. And just think-no chemicals! And you are using green compost! Good for the worms and that is good for whatever you plant there later. Very much less labour would be involved in using glyphosate to kill the weeds. After the weeds are well and truly dead, They are dead alright and their texture is disgusting. That does not affect the ability of the soil fauna and flora from turning them into compost. the leftovers can be raked up and put on a compost heap. I would never, never ever put them in my compost heap, but then just where do we put them? In the garbage? Where does the garbage go? To the ocean? Ouch! They decompose very satisfactorily when dug in *after they have been killed* The roots, which will be dead after the treatment, may be left to rot in the ground. Yes Franz...tell that to your grandchildren. And what you say about being easy is true. Yes it is easy but there is much to be learned about the long term affects of such a product that kills plants so effectively. If it sounds too good to be true...it probably is. Provide the evidence and I will cease using it. The available evidence at the moment says glyphosate is safe. Should you have any fledgling ice hockey players in your town, tell them you have a great way for them to improve their wrist shot or slap shot! (It will strengthen their wrists and arms). Get them to dig it for you. Be sure that they read the above instructions. Tell them you won't charge them for the experience. Well, good luck with that one! That's my 'how' and 'why'. No chemical is a good chemical...ask any worm...they work 24-7 and in the dark...as far as I know! Why do you want to dig at all? Firstly, to do our part to protect the environment and to get some exercise...digging is good for toning the arms and shoulders and after all it is only one shovel full at a time! Not when one is eighty and can walk only with difficulty. just mulch thickly with manure or compost. Franz good points made but we don't know where she lives and maybe she doesn't have manure or any compost where she lives. Manure and compost is available to anyone with a few pounds in the pocket and a car to transport the stuff. TIME OUT: Excuse me Ms...( I can't find her name...well, the Lady who posted this original question...it was a lady wasn't it? Do you have lots of compost? Do you have lots of manure like Franz suggests, to do what Franz suggested? Or maybe there are ice hockey players in town...Franz, do you have ice hockey players in your town? Get them to go over and help this lady with her garden...ah..yes...grass....weeds! I found no difficulty to find compost and manure when I was still town-bound. The worms will do the digging, 24/7 as you said. Yes Franz either way they will do the 'digging' unless we kill them off with unknown 'beneficial' chemicals. I am not talking abour what you call "unknown 'beneficial' chemicals". I am talking about a chemical about whose effects on the environment a great deal is known. Glyphosate has been shown not to affect worms to any noticeable effect. Franz |
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