Hi All,
Last year I grew a passiflora vitifolia from seed. I only had one shoot out
of a packet unfortunately. The plant is now about a foot tall and is
starting to form side shoots.
I'm now wondering how much cold this plant will take and if it would survive
a UK winter. It has been outside now since spring so may already have had
some light frosts - some of the leaves were burnt. Generally passiflora are
said to not be hardy, but from what I've read, quite a few are perfectly
happy outdoors in the UK. The 'maypops' variety more popular in the US is
rarely sold as hardy, when in fact it's extremely hardy.

So - has anyone had any experience of growing the vitifolia outdoors in the
UK?

Thanks,
Matthew

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:04:30 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
wrote:

Hi All,
Last year I grew a passiflora vitifolia from seed. I only had one shoot out
of a packet unfortunately. The plant is now about a foot tall and is
starting to form side shoots.
I'm now wondering how much cold this plant will take and if it would survive
a UK winter. It has been outside now since spring so may already have had
some light frosts - some of the leaves were burnt. Generally passiflora are
said to not be hardy, but from what I've read, quite a few are perfectly
happy outdoors in the UK. The 'maypops' variety more popular in the US is
rarely sold as hardy, when in fact it's extremely hardy.

So - has anyone had any experience of growing the vitifolia outdoors in the
UK?

Thanks,
Matthew

I grow vitifolia in our conservatory. Spectacular brilliant red
flowers. I wouldn't attempt it outdoors, even in the far west of
Cornwall. I lost a P.molissima outside last winter.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:05:24 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
wrote:



hehe - I lost my only molissima when the seed that sprouted did so upside
down. I got a nice view of the root for about 4 days; unfortunately by the
time I realised this it was too late and no other seeds sprouted.

I have heard that the molissima is slightly hardy - more so than the
vitifolia in fact. How old / big was the one you lost?

About 15 ft tall, up a leylandii stump, and about three years old,
although that was its first (and last) winter outside. I have another
in the conservatory. I wouldn't have put it out if it was my only one.

I found that p. vitifolia didn't flower until it too was a couple of
years old and a similar size to the molissima.

Where do you live?

West Cornwall. Almost frost free apart from that cold snap in Feb when
we had -2C here, but with a cutting wind that saw off a number of
tender plants that I hoped would generally be OK here.

I live in Hertfordshire so pretty cold - though that said my non-hardy fuscias
all survived through snow and ice. Maybe my garden is sheltered.
Sadly I don't have a conservatory otherwise I'd grow them in there! I also
don't have a garden big enough to take a conservatory

My mother, also in W.Cornwall, lost all her tender fuschias, so maybe
you are a bit sheltered. But in general I think you're going to have
difficulty. Try it in a pot in a window and train it over a large hoop
support, round and round. Take cuttings, and when you've got several
plants on the go, then try one outside. You might be lucky.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:25:11 GMT, "Matthew Durkin"
wrote:

snip
Don't suppose you know where I could buy (maybe mail order) a nice
mollisima.
National Collection of Passiflora, Lampley Rd, Kingston Seymour,
Clevedon, North Somerset, BS21 6XS. Send for a list.
My attempt at getting passiflora to grow from seed has not been a
massive success. I also tried some decaisneana seeds with no success. This
was in my propagator at 25degrees - its max temp.
I germinate mine in the airing cupboard. Usually fairly successful.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Matthew Durkin wrote:

I'm hoping to get hold of a mollisima to attempt to grow outdoors. I seem to
experience very mild conditions in my back garden. I think this is because
it's a very small garden with fences either side (terrace house) so it is
very shielded from the wind. All my fancy fuschias survived last year and
are starting to flower again now! I live in St Albans (Herts) so should
don't get particularly mild weather.

As much as I hate to dampen enthusiasm about growing more unusual
plants out of doors, I fear that St Albans is too cold for Passiflora
mollissima. The problem with attempting to grow any 'tender' species
permanently out of doors is not so much that of coping with ultimate
low temperatures, but more to do with their ability to survive
prolonged low temperatures. Many tropical plants can survive an
occasional drop to minus 3C for an hour or so and remain miraculously
untouched. As a result, tables created to indicate a plant's cold
tolerance will probably show survival at minus 3C. moderate damage at
minus 5C, severe damage at minus 6C and death at minus 7C. The
unwary, looking at such tables can be forgiven for thinking ;

"Aha, we rarely see minus 5C here and I don't mind a few damaged
leaves in winter. I'll give it a go."

They then become perplexed that a mild winter where temps remain above
minus 3C all of the time, still kills the plant. The answer lies in
duration of cold, the amount of atmospheric and soil moisture,
together with ensuing daytime temperatures. The latter are
exceptionally important. In regions where the plant survives a brief
cold spell, the daytime high invariably rises quite dramatically and
often peaks well above 15C or more. This is enough to counter an
hour's exposure to minus 3, 4 or 5C. Also, when spring arrives
properly, temperatures invariably peak close to 30C and gradually
increase to reach summer-time highs well over 36C on an almost daily
basis.

In the UK, with few exceptions, a low of minus 3C remains for several
to many hours - often throughout the night. The amount of time below
0C extends upwards to around 12 hours or more. This, followed by
daytime temperatures that struggle to reach 5 or 6C. results in
fatally cold conditions. Add to this typically British winter wet and
you have a recipe for disaster. Spring-time temps in the UK are cool,
very cool or cold. They cannot compare with continental highs for the
same time of year and cold-shocked plants that are barely hanging on,
rarely survive the wait for temps to regularly peak above 21C.

Some sub-tropical plants have remarkable powers of survival through
regeneration and a preference for coolish growing conditions. All
Fuchsias fall into this category and there is good reason to presume
that Fuchsias originally evolved as relatively cold hardy shrubs close
to the South Pole. They became sub-tropical as the climate warmed due
to the northward migration of South America many millions of years
ago. Quite a few palms native to southern Brazil, Argentina and
Chile are also able to withstand UK winters remarkably well and
current thinking is that they may have also evolved much further south
originally. Large flowered, decorative hybrid Fuchsias have complex
parentages, almost all containing some genes of the more cold-hardy
species. That they survive a mild winter is not expecially unusual
and should not be taken as an indicator that other non-related species
are also likely to survive.

Getting back to Passiflora mollissima - I've tried it here with
varying and modest degrees of success. In most years there is
moderate damage and some die-back - and that is on a plant growing
against a warm south facing wall. Here, it rarely drops below minus
2C in winter and it is a very cold spate of weather for temperatures
not to rise to 12C by day. In coastal far south-west regions, winter
night time lows rarely go much below 0C and if they do, it is often
only during the coldest period just before sunrise. As soon as it
gets light, temperatures rise quickly and the total period below 0C is
probably no more than 2 hours at the very most. The difference
between here and St Albans for example, is not that the lows are that
much higher here, but that it remains warmer here for much longer.

Don't suppose you know where I could buy (maybe mail order) a nice
mollisima.

Reads Nurseries do a fair range and I believe also do mail order.
Nice plants and not overly expensive.

http://www.readsnursery.co.uk

BIG PLUG
Ray & Sacha's Nursery do exceptionally fine mollissimas at
exceptionally reasonable prices, but sadly do not do mail order
/BIG PLUG

My attempt at getting passiflora to grow from seed has not been a
massive success.

The seeds are very hard shelled and should be soaked in tepid water
for 24-48 hours. Sow in sealed bags or pots of lightly moist perlite
and maintain at around 28 - 30C or higher. Inspect regularly after 10
days and pot up seedlings as soon as they produce their seed leaves.
Keep them at around 25C and in good light until growing strongly and
gradually reduce temperatures. High summer is probably the best time
to sow, since you can often persuade a propagator to heat up beyond
its normal range by placing it closed-up in a sunny spot.

If you can improve your success rate with seed, you would be in a much
better position to experiment. Its a lot less worrying to plant out
one of several home-raised plants, than a treasured specimen that may
have cost over 10 quid. Best of luck

"Dave Poole" wrote in message
...
Matthew Durkin wrote:

I'm hoping to get hold of a mollisima to attempt to grow outdoors. I seem
to
experience very mild conditions in my back garden. I think this is
because
it's a very small garden with fences either side (terrace house) so it is
very shielded from the wind. All my fancy fuschias survived last year and
are starting to flower again now! I live in St Albans (Herts) so should
don't get particularly mild weather.

As much as I hate to dampen enthusiasm about growing more unusual
plants out of doors, I fear that St Albans is too cold for Passiflora
mollissima. The problem with attempting to grow any 'tender' species
permanently out of doors is not so much that of coping with ultimate
low temperatures, but more to do with their ability to survive
prolonged low temperatures. Many tropical plants can survive an
occasional drop to minus 3C for an hour or so and remain miraculously
untouched. As a result, tables created to indicate a plant's cold
tolerance will probably show survival at minus 3C. moderate damage at
minus 5C, severe damage at minus 6C and death at minus 7C. The
unwary, looking at such tables can be forgiven for thinking ;

"Aha, we rarely see minus 5C here and I don't mind a few damaged
leaves in winter. I'll give it a go."

They then become perplexed that a mild winter where temps remain above
minus 3C all of the time, still kills the plant. The answer lies in
duration of cold, the amount of atmospheric and soil moisture,
together with ensuing daytime temperatures. The latter are
exceptionally important. In regions where the plant survives a brief
cold spell, the daytime high invariably rises quite dramatically and
often peaks well above 15C or more. This is enough to counter an
hour's exposure to minus 3, 4 or 5C. Also, when spring arrives
properly, temperatures invariably peak close to 30C and gradually
increase to reach summer-time highs well over 36C on an almost daily
basis.

In the UK, with few exceptions, a low of minus 3C remains for several
to many hours - often throughout the night. The amount of time below
0C extends upwards to around 12 hours or more. This, followed by
daytime temperatures that struggle to reach 5 or 6C. results in
fatally cold conditions. Add to this typically British winter wet and
you have a recipe for disaster. Spring-time temps in the UK are cool,
very cool or cold. They cannot compare with continental highs for the
same time of year and cold-shocked plants that are barely hanging on,
rarely survive the wait for temps to regularly peak above 21C.

Some sub-tropical plants have remarkable powers of survival through
regeneration and a preference for coolish growing conditions. All
Fuchsias fall into this category and there is good reason to presume
that Fuchsias originally evolved as relatively cold hardy shrubs close
to the South Pole. They became sub-tropical as the climate warmed due
to the northward migration of South America many millions of years
ago. Quite a few palms native to southern Brazil, Argentina and
Chile are also able to withstand UK winters remarkably well and
current thinking is that they may have also evolved much further south
originally. Large flowered, decorative hybrid Fuchsias have complex
parentages, almost all containing some genes of the more cold-hardy
species. That they survive a mild winter is not expecially unusual
and should not be taken as an indicator that other non-related species
are also likely to survive.

Getting back to Passiflora mollissima - I've tried it here with
varying and modest degrees of success. In most years there is
moderate damage and some die-back - and that is on a plant growing
against a warm south facing wall. Here, it rarely drops below minus
2C in winter and it is a very cold spate of weather for temperatures
not to rise to 12C by day. In coastal far south-west regions, winter
night time lows rarely go much below 0C and if they do, it is often
only during the coldest period just before sunrise. As soon as it
gets light, temperatures rise quickly and the total period below 0C is
probably no more than 2 hours at the very most. The difference
between here and St Albans for example, is not that the lows are that
much higher here, but that it remains warmer here for much longer.

Don't suppose you know where I could buy (maybe mail order) a nice
mollisima.

Reads Nurseries do a fair range and I believe also do mail order.
Nice plants and not overly expensive.

http://www.readsnursery.co.uk

BIG PLUG
Ray & Sacha's Nursery do exceptionally fine mollissimas at
exceptionally reasonable prices, but sadly do not do mail order
/BIG PLUG

My attempt at getting passiflora to grow from seed has not been a
massive success.

The seeds are very hard shelled and should be soaked in tepid water
for 24-48 hours. Sow in sealed bags or pots of lightly moist perlite
and maintain at around 28 - 30C or higher. Inspect regularly after 10
days and pot up seedlings as soon as they produce their seed leaves.
Keep them at around 25C and in good light until growing strongly and
gradually reduce temperatures. High summer is probably the best time
to sow, since you can often persuade a propagator to heat up beyond
its normal range by placing it closed-up in a sunny spot.

If you can improve your success rate with seed, you would be in a much
better position to experiment. Its a lot less worrying to plant out
one of several home-raised plants, than a treasured specimen that may
have cost over 10 quid. Best of luck


Hi Dave,
I cannot thank you enough for the advice! I will probably have another go
with the seeds as I really wanted to try growing a few in the house - and
maybe one for my office - round a hoop. I also wondered whether it's
possible to get them to grow as a standard of any kind - do you know? I've
read about them being grafted for commercial fruit production, but not for
garden use, or as a standard.
Incidentally, my interest in passiflora started after I went to a wedding in
the South Spanish hillside where the 'trunk' on a passiflora there was a
couple of feet wide. The plant had completely covered a massive pergola,
around 15 metres long and a couple wide. It was full of flower and I had
never (and have never since) seen anything quite like it. Unbelievably, I
failed to take a picture of this marvellous plant.

I also can't say how excited I am by finding Epiphyllum on the Reads
Nurseries site. Many years ago I bought such a plant from a church fair,
little knowing what a spectacular surprise I would have that summer! I have
wondered what they are ever since. I think I'll be dusting my wallet out
soon!

Thanks again,
Matthew

In article ,

On this matter, one of my seed-grown P. incarnata has just flowered!
I am trying it in the rain shadow by the porch. Two that I left
outside (one in the ground, one in a pot) survived, but regard the
temperatures here as too cold to start growing before June!

If anyone in Cambridge wants one, I have one spare.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Dave Poole" wrote in message
...
Matthew Durkin wrote:

I'm hoping to get hold of a mollisima to attempt to grow outdoors. I seem
to
experience very mild conditions in my back garden. I think this is
because
it's a very small garden with fences either side (terrace house) so it is
very shielded from the wind. All my fancy fuschias survived last year and
are starting to flower again now! I live in St Albans (Herts) so should
don't get particularly mild weather.

As much as I hate to dampen enthusiasm about growing more unusual
plants out of doors, I fear that St Albans is too cold for Passiflora
mollissima. The problem with attempting to grow any 'tender' species
permanently out of doors is not so much that of coping with ultimate
low temperatures, but more to do with their ability to survive
prolonged low temperatures. Many tropical plants can survive an
occasional drop to minus 3C for an hour or so and remain miraculously
untouched. As a result, tables created to indicate a plant's cold
tolerance will probably show survival at minus 3C. moderate damage at
minus 5C, severe damage at minus 6C and death at minus 7C. The
unwary, looking at such tables can be forgiven for thinking ;

"Aha, we rarely see minus 5C here and I don't mind a few damaged
leaves in winter. I'll give it a go."

They then become perplexed that a mild winter where temps remain above
minus 3C all of the time, still kills the plant. The answer lies in
duration of cold, the amount of atmospheric and soil moisture,
together with ensuing daytime temperatures. The latter are
exceptionally important. In regions where the plant survives a brief
cold spell, the daytime high invariably rises quite dramatically and
often peaks well above 15C or more. This is enough to counter an
hour's exposure to minus 3, 4 or 5C. Also, when spring arrives
properly, temperatures invariably peak close to 30C and gradually
increase to reach summer-time highs well over 36C on an almost daily
basis.

In the UK, with few exceptions, a low of minus 3C remains for several
to many hours - often throughout the night. The amount of time below
0C extends upwards to around 12 hours or more. This, followed by
daytime temperatures that struggle to reach 5 or 6C. results in
fatally cold conditions. Add to this typically British winter wet and
you have a recipe for disaster. Spring-time temps in the UK are cool,
very cool or cold. They cannot compare with continental highs for the
same time of year and cold-shocked plants that are barely hanging on,
rarely survive the wait for temps to regularly peak above 21C.

Some sub-tropical plants have remarkable powers of survival through
regeneration and a preference for coolish growing conditions. All
Fuchsias fall into this category and there is good reason to presume
that Fuchsias originally evolved as relatively cold hardy shrubs close
to the South Pole. They became sub-tropical as the climate warmed due
to the northward migration of South America many millions of years
ago. Quite a few palms native to southern Brazil, Argentina and
Chile are also able to withstand UK winters remarkably well and
current thinking is that they may have also evolved much further south
originally. Large flowered, decorative hybrid Fuchsias have complex
parentages, almost all containing some genes of the more cold-hardy
species. That they survive a mild winter is not expecially unusual
and should not be taken as an indicator that other non-related species
are also likely to survive.

Getting back to Passiflora mollissima - I've tried it here with
varying and modest degrees of success. In most years there is
moderate damage and some die-back - and that is on a plant growing
against a warm south facing wall. Here, it rarely drops below minus
2C in winter and it is a very cold spate of weather for temperatures
not to rise to 12C by day. In coastal far south-west regions, winter
night time lows rarely go much below 0C and if they do, it is often
only during the coldest period just before sunrise. As soon as it
gets light, temperatures rise quickly and the total period below 0C is
probably no more than 2 hours at the very most. The difference
between here and St Albans for example, is not that the lows are that
much higher here, but that it remains warmer here for much longer.

Don't suppose you know where I could buy (maybe mail order) a nice
mollisima.

Reads Nurseries do a fair range and I believe also do mail order.
Nice plants and not overly expensive.

http://www.readsnursery.co.uk

BIG PLUG
Ray & Sacha's Nursery do exceptionally fine mollissimas at
exceptionally reasonable prices, but sadly do not do mail order
/BIG PLUG

My attempt at getting passiflora to grow from seed has not been a
massive success.

The seeds are very hard shelled and should be soaked in tepid water
for 24-48 hours. Sow in sealed bags or pots of lightly moist perlite
and maintain at around 28 - 30C or higher. Inspect regularly after 10
days and pot up seedlings as soon as they produce their seed leaves.
Keep them at around 25C and in good light until growing strongly and
gradually reduce temperatures. High summer is probably the best time
to sow, since you can often persuade a propagator to heat up beyond
its normal range by placing it closed-up in a sunny spot.

If you can improve your success rate with seed, you would be in a much
better position to experiment. Its a lot less worrying to plant out
one of several home-raised plants, than a treasured specimen that may
have cost over 10 quid. Best of luck


Hi Dave,
I cannot thank you enough for the advice! I will probably have another go
with the seeds as I really wanted to try growing a few in the house - and
maybe one for my office - round a hoop. I also wondered whether it's
possible to get them to grow as a standard of any kind - do you know? I've
read about them being grafted for commercial fruit production, but not for
garden use, or as a standard.
Incidentally, my interest in passiflora started after I went to a wedding in
the South Spanish hillside where the 'trunk' on a passiflora there was a
couple of feet wide. The plant had completely covered a massive pergola,
around 15 metres long and a couple wide. It was full of flower and I had
never (and have never since) seen anything quite like it. Unbelievably, I
failed to take a picture of this marvellous plant.

I also can't say how excited I am by finding Epiphyllum on the Reads
Nurseries site. Many years ago I bought such a plant from a church fair,
little knowing what a spectacular surprise I would have that summer! I have
wondered what they are ever since. I think I'll be dusting my wallet out
soon!

Thanks again,
Matthew

In article ,

On this matter, one of my seed-grown P. incarnata has just flowered!
I am trying it in the rain shadow by the porch. Two that I left
outside (one in the ground, one in a pot) survived, but regard the
temperatures here as too cold to start growing before June!

If anyone in Cambridge wants one, I have one spare.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 26 Jul 2004 20:16:49 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,

On this matter, one of my seed-grown P. incarnata has just flowered!
I am trying it in the rain shadow by the porch. Two that I left
outside (one in the ground, one in a pot) survived, but regard the
temperatures here as too cold to start growing before June!

P. incarnata is herbaceous but the rootstock is supposedly fairly
hardy given good drainage, and noting DP's caveats. I also have it in
flower (from seed ex Chiltern), alongside its offspring, P. Incense
(P.incarnata x P. cincinnata, bought as a plant). The flowers are very
similar in shape and size, although Incense has purple corona
filaments. Between them they fill the conservatory with a lovely rich
honey scent :-). The rootstock of Incense is also supposed to be
fairly hardy, so I might plant them both outside next year.

I'm hoping p. antioquiensis will flower sometime, also grown from seed
ex Chiltern. But I suspect I'll have to wait until the autumn as
direct sunshine and high temperatures in the conservatory shrivel the
leaves and young growth, despite my efforts at shading.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

On 26 Jul 2004 20:16:49 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,

On this matter, one of my seed-grown P. incarnata has just flowered!
I am trying it in the rain shadow by the porch. Two that I left
outside (one in the ground, one in a pot) survived, but regard the
temperatures here as too cold to start growing before June!

P. incarnata is herbaceous but the rootstock is supposedly fairly
hardy given good drainage, and noting DP's caveats. I also have it in
flower (from seed ex Chiltern), alongside its offspring, P. Incense
(P.incarnata x P. cincinnata, bought as a plant). The flowers are very
similar in shape and size, although Incense has purple corona
filaments. Between them they fill the conservatory with a lovely rich
honey scent :-). The rootstock of Incense is also supposed to be
fairly hardy, so I might plant them both outside next year.

I'm hoping p. antioquiensis will flower sometime, also grown from seed
ex Chiltern. But I suspect I'll have to wait until the autumn as
direct sunshine and high temperatures in the conservatory shrivel the
leaves and young growth, despite my efforts at shading.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net