In article 1104840072.98438ddeea2045e62f46ffa1c2f70c96@teran ews, Tim
Challenger wrote:


I'd have thought that as most English speakers speak English, they might be
more likely to know what the work tidalwave means that tsunami.

'Tsunami' now *is* the English word for it, just as 'gong' is the
English word for the thing you bang when dinner's ready (from Malay), a
'tycoon' is a big businessman (Japanese), and a tattoo is what your
daughter gets against your wishes (Tahitian), and which you may well
think is 'taboo' (Tongan).

Try asking people under the age of 15 what they'd call a tsunami, and
they'll use the new word, not the old. Languages change all the time,
and one of the nice things about English is that people are happy to
adapt. Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

I still talk about 'motoring' up to London, listening to the
'wireless', and 'taking luncheon', but I only do it to amuse myself and
irritate my children.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 5/1/05 17:41, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?

The Latin is porcus = hog or swine, though cooked pork in Italian is maiale.
Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:49:11 +0000, Sacha
wrote:


Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

Seeing the length of this thread, shouldn't that be 'Alors, revenons a
nos jardins.......(old URG proverb). :-)


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:49:11 +0000, Sacha
wrote:


Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

Seeing the length of this thread, shouldn't that be 'Alors, revenons a
nos jardins.......(old URG proverb). :-)

Or perhaps "il faut cultiver son jardin"?

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:49:11 +0000, Sacha
wrote:


Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

Seeing the length of this thread, shouldn't that be 'Alors, revenons
a
nos jardins.......(old URG proverb). :-)

Not when we're all on full steam along these side waters
{:-))

Franz

In article , Sacha
writes
On 5/1/05 17:41, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?

The Latin is porcus = hog or swine, though cooked pork in Italian is maiale.
Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

So did the Normans use 'porcus' or some close derivative? And the modern
French move on from there? Or did we pick up 'pork' independently?

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 5/1/05 23:27, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
snip The Latin is porcus = hog or swine, though cooked pork in Italian
is maiale.
Alors, revenons a nos moutons......... (old French proverb) ;-)

So did the Normans use 'porcus' or some close derivative? And the modern
French move on from there? Or did we pick up 'pork' independently?

My concise dictionary of English Etymology says that 'porc' is Old French.
I imagine we picked up the word pork between both the Latin and the Norman.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

In article , Kay
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

Exactly

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
In article , Kay
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
Remember, 'pork', 'beef' and 'mutton' were all foreign words
once. But not any more.

The meat has the name of the animal in the language of the conquering
classes who ate it, while the animal retains the language of the
conquered who grew it.

Exactly

At least it works for boeuf and mouton, but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

What is the english translation of that? Is it 'pig' or 'pork'?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 5/1/05 23:28, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
snip

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

What is the english translation of that? Is it 'pig' or 'pork'?

A pig in French is "un cochon" and the dictionary gives "un porc" too. I've
never heard the latter used to describe a pig but only to describe the meat
as in "cotelette de porc" for example.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes
On 5/1/05 23:28, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
snip

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

What is the english translation of that? Is it 'pig' or 'pork'?

A pig in French is "un cochon" and the dictionary gives "un porc" too. I've
never heard the latter used to describe a pig but only to describe the meat
as in "cotelette de porc" for example.

Taken with your other post, it suggests either the Normans were using
'un porc' for the pig and we picked up it up for the meat, and that
French moved on to 'cochon' later, or that the normans used 'porc' for
the meat only. Either way around fits into the pattern.

What about 'poultry'? Am I right in thinking it's derived from 'poulet'?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 6/1/05 17:17, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 5/1/05 23:28, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
snip

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

What is the english translation of that? Is it 'pig' or 'pork'?

A pig in French is "un cochon" and the dictionary gives "un porc" too. I've
never heard the latter used to describe a pig but only to describe the meat
as in "cotelette de porc" for example.

Taken with your other post, it suggests either the Normans were using
'un porc' for the pig and we picked up it up for the meat, and that
French moved on to 'cochon' later, or that the normans used 'porc' for
the meat only. Either way around fits into the pattern.

What about 'poultry'? Am I right in thinking it's derived from 'poulet'?

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

[quote=Kay]In article but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?


I don't know either, but in German, it is Schwein, as in the similar English word Swine (except that the 'W' is pronounced like a 'V').

In article , Douglas Douglas.1i
writes

Kay Wrote:
In article but I'm not sure where pork
comes from - the latin? - is it the modern french that has moved away?


I don't know either, but in German, it is Schwein, as in the similar
English word Swine (except that the 'W' is pronounced like a 'V').

Yeah, a lot of our language comes from the N European, especially older
words.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"