"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Glen Able
writes

I would expect that people who come to the group for the first time using
OE
(+ maybe other newsreaders) will see the most recent messages, sorted by
date. And that the 'abc for newcomers...' will be a practically
invisible
thread hidden amongst several-week-old messages and orphaned replies to
spam
that they're unlikely to peruse. This was the case for me, anyway.


So - what would have attracted you to read it?

Well, if it had been visible amongst the newest threads then I probably
would have spotted it and read it. As it was, I lurked in this group for
months before I ever noticed the abc post, because it was languishing with a
load of old " CONservation whine boo hoo..." type junk.

As someone else suggested the posts shouldn't get lumped together into a
single thread if their subjects were distinct, e.g. if they had the current
date appended. Dunno if that's feasible though?

In article , Glen Able
writes
"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Glen Able
writes

I would expect that people who come to the group for the first time using
OE
(+ maybe other newsreaders) will see the most recent messages, sorted by
date. And that the 'abc for newcomers...' will be a practically
invisible
thread hidden amongst several-week-old messages and orphaned replies to
spam
that they're unlikely to peruse. This was the case for me, anyway.


So - what would have attracted you to read it?

Well, if it had been visible amongst the newest threads then I probably
would have spotted it and read it. As it was, I lurked in this group for
months before I ever noticed the abc post, because it was languishing with a
load of old " CONservation whine boo hoo..." type junk.

When you say
visible amongst the newest threads
do you mean it wasn't visible? - in which case what would have improved
its visibility?
or do you mean it wasn't in amongst the newest posts?

As someone else suggested the posts shouldn't get lumped together into a
single thread if their subjects were distinct, e.g. if they had the current
date appended.

I understand why you may not have noticed last week's abc post when you
first logged on, but I'm not sure I understand why you didn't spot the
next week's one, after you'd subscribed a couple of days. Is the problem
that with your software, the newest posting just gets dumped into the
previous thread, so it doesn't appear as a new post? Forgive me, I'm
trying to get my head around this. How do you spot new posts if that is
the case? Or do you see only new posts to threads that you have chosen
to follow?

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Glen Able
writes
"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Glen Able
writes

I would expect that people who come to the group for the first time
using
OE
(+ maybe other newsreaders) will see the most recent messages, sorted
by
date. And that the 'abc for newcomers...' will be a practically
invisible
thread hidden amongst several-week-old messages and orphaned replies
to
spam
that they're unlikely to peruse. This was the case for me, anyway.


So - what would have attracted you to read it?

Well, if it had been visible amongst the newest threads then I probably
would have spotted it and read it. As it was, I lurked in this group for
months before I ever noticed the abc post, because it was languishing
with a
load of old " CONservation whine boo hoo..." type junk.

When you say
visible amongst the newest threads
do you mean it wasn't visible? - in which case what would have improved
its visibility?
or do you mean it wasn't in amongst the newest posts?

As someone else suggested the posts shouldn't get lumped together into a
single thread if their subjects were distinct, e.g. if they had the
current
date appended.

I understand why you may not have noticed last week's abc post when you
first logged on, but I'm not sure I understand why you didn't spot the
next week's one, after you'd subscribed a couple of days. Is the problem
that with your software, the newest posting just gets dumped into the
previous thread, so it doesn't appear as a new post? Forgive me, I'm
trying to get my head around this. How do you spot new posts if that is
the case? Or do you see only new posts to threads that you have chosen
to follow?

In OE all the threads are viewed as trees, which are collapsed by default.
Here's a random OE news screenshot:
ttp://www.marco5x.net/usenet/uso_OE.php - you can tell the top thread has
unread posts in it, as it's displayed in bold. The thread below is non-bold
and you know there's nothing unread in it.

When I open URG, I scroll down through the last week-or-so's threads and see
if any that interest me have gone bold, indicating there's something new to
read in it. But the 'abc' posts all appear in a single thread with an old
date (the date of the earliest post in the thread), and there's little
reason to scroll all the way down to ancient posts.

(Incidentally, because you've got this nice threaded view of a conversation,
top posting isn't a problem, because you can easily see what someone is
responding to. Also, quoting becomes largely irrelevant.)

Hopefully this makes more sense to you )

"Glen Able" wrote in message
...

Try looking in Tools - Options - Maintenance ...


Thanks to both.
Giving it a whirl.

Regards
Pete

In article , Glen Able
writes


In OE all the threads are viewed as trees, which are collapsed by default.
Here's a random OE news screenshot:
ttp://www.marco5x.net/usenet/uso_OE.php - you can tell the top thread has
unread posts in it, as it's displayed in bold. The thread below is non-bold
and you know there's nothing unread in it.

When I open URG, I scroll down through the last week-or-so's threads and see
if any that interest me have gone bold, indicating there's something new to
read in it. But the 'abc' posts all appear in a single thread with an old
date (the date of the earliest post in the thread), and there's little
reason to scroll all the way down to ancient posts.

Right. That's rather like a web based forum I subscribe to. But that
uses the convention of ordering by date order of the most *recent* post
in the thread - if OE were to do this then a) all the threads with new
posts would be together at the top b) abc would be amongst them.

(Incidentally, because you've got this nice threaded view of a conversation,
top posting isn't a problem, because you can easily see what someone is
responding to. Also, quoting becomes largely irrelevant.)

Turnpike is like that too - you have a complete threaded view of the ng,
and you can collapse or expand the view of any or all the threads, so
there is no problem in seeing who can respond to what. Threads are
ordered by 'interesting' or 'not interesting' - a thread can be marked
as 'interesting' and automatically becomes so if you post to it - and
within that by date.

But - we have the even better facility - hitting the space bar takes you
to the next unread post in the thread, and when there are no more unread
posts in that thread, to the next unread post in the next thread, so we
hardly ever have to refer to the threaded listing. (Just hitting space
bar is far quicker than looking at a thread and picking out the posts
you want to read.) And that is why the usenet convention is to quote
enough of the context for people to understand what you are replying to.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Glen Able wrote:

That;s o.k. have you found the abc posted each week.

That's what I meant to ask about! oops. No, I have not received it for
over a year.

Pam in Bristol

What I've found is that, although the 'abc for newcomers...' article is
posted every week, Outlook Express has decided that all the posts belong to
a single thread. So I never actually get to see the article in question,
unless I scroll down to the very oldest posts. And there I find, dated
18/09/04, the thread in question, with 20 or so copies of the article all
collapsed into one thread - including the most recent one from 2 days ago!

I'm surprised that they are all lumped together in one thread. They are
posted individually rather than as "follow-ups" and therefore there
would be no "follow-up" information on them.

David

--
David Rance http://www.rance.org.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Peter Stockdale wrote:

Lucky you - my O.E. only scrolls back 6 weeks !
Could whoever posts the ABC not pre-date the heading with the current date
so that O.E. would perhaps recognise it as a new post ??

They *are* posted with the current date. Look at the complete header.

David

--
David Rance http://www.rance.org.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK