I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall. However, I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any suggestions?

Alex

In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall. However, I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any suggestions?

How are you going to attach the trellis? I suggest that you ignore
the nonsense about ivy - it won't damage any walls built in the past
50 years in the UK, unless they are already failing. It very rarely
damages even older ones.

The point is that REMOVING ivy from a wall with loose mortar (e.g.
decaying lime mortar, as used over 50 years back) can cause trouble,
but otherwise it does no more harm than any other evergreen creeper.
And, to grow anything else, you need to fix a fairly solid trellis,
which assumes that your mortar is solid!

That being said, I don't grow ivy. How big is the wall, where do you
live, what is the aspect, what soil do you have, and what other
properties do you want it to have?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I like pyracantha which you can obtain in many different colours:


http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plan..._coccinea.html

http://www.crocus.co.uk/plantdoctor/...09&CategoryID=

http://www.hort.net/gallery/view/ros/pyrcrgr80

Regards,
Emrys Davies.




"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall.
However, I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am
thinking of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling
to the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any
suggestions?

How are you going to attach the trellis? I suggest that you ignore
the nonsense about ivy - it won't damage any walls built in the past
50 years in the UK, unless they are already failing. It very rarely
damages even older ones.

The point is that REMOVING ivy from a wall with loose mortar (e.g.
decaying lime mortar, as used over 50 years back) can cause trouble,
but otherwise it does no more harm than any other evergreen creeper.
And, to grow anything else, you need to fix a fairly solid trellis,
which assumes that your mortar is solid!

That being said, I don't grow ivy. How big is the wall, where do you
live, what is the aspect, what soil do you have, and what other
properties do you want it to have?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Emrys Davies wrote:
I like pyracantha which you can obtain in many different colours:

Well, yes, but ....

Please don't top-post!

An established pyracantha will grow 6' in a season, with stems 3/4"
thick, and armed with 1" thorns. I got rid of mine because I got
sick of keeping it under control - and I believe that is why the
owner of a large wall pyracantha nearby did.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall. However,
I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to
the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any suggestions?

How are you going to attach the trellis?

The wall is approximately 3 metres high by 4 mtrs long. It was constructed
about 8 years ago as part of a house extension. There are no windows and it
looks a bit drab, therefore I would like to brighten it up with a creeper.
Of course if anyone has a better idea, then I am all ears!

I suggest that you ignore
the nonsense about ivy - it won't damage any walls built in the past
50 years in the UK, unless they are already failing. It very rarely
damages even older ones.

I take your point about ivy, but what about the mess it might leave if after
I plant it, if I later decide to remove it?. As I have mentioned, the wall
is part of a relatively new house extension and I certainly don't want to
discolour the brick work for no good reason (even though it does look a bit
drab at the moment)


The point is that REMOVING ivy from a wall with loose mortar (e.g.
decaying lime mortar, as used over 50 years back) can cause trouble,
but otherwise it does no more harm than any other evergreen creeper.
And, to grow anything else, you need to fix a fairly solid trellis,
which assumes that your mortar is solid!

The mortar is solid, plus there are other places where I can anchor it.


That being said, I don't grow ivy. How big is the wall,

See above

where do you
live,

UK, zone 8

what is the aspect,
east facing

what soil do you have,

It will be planted in a long container, therefore I'll use the soil that is
required (provided I can get hold of it)

and what other
properties do you want it to have?

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want it to
swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the wall I intend
putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some colour change on its
leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by any means
and am quite new to it, so please be patient with me if some of my questions
seem a little stupid!

Thanks for your reply and for any more tips you can give.

Alex.

In article ,
"Alex Woodward" writes:
|
| where do you live,
|
| UK, zone 8

If you want serious advice, you need to give more relevant information.
Most posters to this group live in the UK, and the USDA zones are
almost completely irrelevant to us.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Alex Woodward" writes:
|
| where do you live,
|
| UK, zone 8

If you want serious advice, you need to give more relevant information.
Most posters to this group live in the UK, and the USDA zones are
almost completely irrelevant to us.

When I say UK zone 8 I took it from this webpage:

http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/l...146163246.html

Hope the information is what you are after.

Alex

In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:

When I say UK zone 8 I took it from this webpage:

http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/l...146163246.html

Those are USDA zones, and are almost completely irrelevant in the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Alex Woodward wrote:
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
[...]
The wall is approximately 3 metres high by 4 mtrs long. It was
constructed about 8 years ago as part of a house extension. There
are
no windows [...]

I suggest that you ignore
the nonsense about ivy - it won't damage any walls built in the
past
50 years in the UK, unless they are already failing. It very
rarely
damages even older ones.

I take your point about ivy, but what about the mess it might leave
if after I plant it, if I later decide to remove it?. As I have
mentioned, the wall is part of a relatively new house extension and
I
certainly don't want to discolour the brick work for no good reason
(even though it does look a bit drab at the moment)


The point is that REMOVING ivy from a wall with loose mortar (e.g.
decaying lime mortar, as used over 50 years back) can cause
trouble,
but otherwise it does no more harm than any other evergreen
creeper.
And, to grow anything else, you need to fix a fairly solid
trellis,
which assumes that your mortar is solid!

The mortar is solid, plus there are other places where I can anchor
it.


That being said, I don't grow ivy. [...]

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want
it to swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the
wall
I intend putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some
colour
change on its leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by
any means [...]

OK, no windows is good news with ivy. But if you aren't an avid
gardener, can you promise yourself that you will never let the ivy
get as far as the barge-boards or the roof? It can loosen slates and
prise apart the joints in woodwork.

If the wall were rendered and painted, removing ivy would leave
zillions of little "roots" and dead bits of stem behind: these would
show through the next coat of paint unless you laboriously scraped
them off. (I speak as an ivy-lover who has made the mistake.) On your
plain brick wall, these left-behind bits won't matter much, as
they'll eventually rot away.

Some ivies colour nicely in the autumn, and stay that way all winter;
but it doesn't usually happen till they're mature, and may not happen
at all if they're well fed (one beauty I selected carefully in the
wild still wasn't colouring up ten years later).

Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Alex Woodward wrote:
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
[...]
The wall is approximately 3 metres high by 4 mtrs long. It was
constructed about 8 years ago as part of a house extension. There
are
no windows [...]

I suggest that you ignore
the nonsense about ivy - it won't damage any walls built in the
past
50 years in the UK, unless they are already failing. It very
rarely
damages even older ones.

I take your point about ivy, but what about the mess it might leave
if after I plant it, if I later decide to remove it?. As I have
mentioned, the wall is part of a relatively new house extension and
I
certainly don't want to discolour the brick work for no good reason
(even though it does look a bit drab at the moment)


The point is that REMOVING ivy from a wall with loose mortar (e.g.
decaying lime mortar, as used over 50 years back) can cause
trouble,
but otherwise it does no more harm than any other evergreen
creeper.
And, to grow anything else, you need to fix a fairly solid
trellis,
which assumes that your mortar is solid!

The mortar is solid, plus there are other places where I can anchor
it.


That being said, I don't grow ivy. [...]

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want
it to swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the
wall
I intend putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some
colour
change on its leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by
any means [...]

OK, no windows is good news with ivy. But if you aren't an avid
gardener, can you promise yourself that you will never let the ivy
get as far as the barge-boards or the roof? It can loosen slates and
prise apart the joints in woodwork.

I don't mind pruning now and again. Assuming they thrive, how often do they
need pruning. Do they grow as quickly as hedge rows for example?


If the wall were rendered and painted, removing ivy would leave
zillions of little "roots" and dead bits of stem behind: these would
show through the next coat of paint unless you laboriously scraped
them off. (I speak as an ivy-lover who has made the mistake.) On your
plain brick wall, these left-behind bits won't matter much, as
they'll eventually rot away

The wall is plain brick.
..

Some ivies colour nicely in the autumn, and stay that way all winter;
but it doesn't usually happen till they're mature, and may not happen
at all if they're well fed (one beauty I selected carefully in the
wild still wasn't colouring up ten years later).

In that case, is it better not to feed them so well after they have fully
grown or are there serious disadvantages in going down that route?

Alex

Alex Woodward wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in [...]
OK, no windows is good news with ivy. But if you aren't an avid
gardener, can you promise yourself that you will never let the ivy
get as far as the barge-boards or the roof? It can loosen slates
and
prise apart the joints in woodwork.

I don't mind pruning now and again. Assuming they thrive, how often
do they need pruning. Do they grow as quickly as hedge rows for
example?

If you're moderately brutal, twice a year; if you're really brutal,
once. Unless you're artistic about it, it will look horrible for
amonth or two afterwards. But you cannot afford to forget twice
running.

[...]

Some ivies colour nicely in the autumn, and stay that way all
winter;
but it doesn't usually happen till they're mature, and may not
happen
at all if they're well fed (one beauty I selected carefully in the
wild still wasn't colouring up ten years later).

In that case, is it better not to feed them so well after they have
fully grown or are there serious disadvantages in going down that
route?

I don't mean feeding them in the sense of applying feed: they never
need that _at all_. I refer to the soil in which they grow. I put my
chosen colouring specimens in a mixture of subsoil and builders'
rubble, and they still thought it was absolutely delicious. My guess
is that they'd have started looking good once they'd exhausted that
soil in another twenty years or so (they root shallowly). There are
some absolutely beautiful pink-and-yellow ones in a rocky cutting on
the Great Western Railway outside Neath, if you ever make that
journey: they've probably been eking out the nutrients since Brunel's
time. Mine, a lovely dark and dusty pink, came from beside the road
near Pembroke.

On the matter of USDA-style zones, deprecated by Nick, the problem
with the British Isles is that they are relatively small areas of
extremely varied relief stuck in the North Atlantic: within them you
can find climates varying from, let's say, Maine to maybe North
Carolina to Oregon within a bus-ride. I recognize the map you refer
to as very much the same as what's in the standard agricultural
textbooks; but the trouble is, it only takes a hill, or a row of
houses, or even a wall to change the picture completely. It's
endlessly fascinating; but I can see why the Brits invented the US:
so much simpler!

Mike.

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall.
However,
I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking
of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to
the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any
suggestions?

snip
where do you
live,

UK, zone 8

what is the aspect,
east facing

what soil do you have,

It will be planted in a long container, therefore I'll use the soil that
is
required (provided I can get hold of it)

and what other
properties do you want it to have?

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want it to
swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the wall I intend
putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some colour change on its
leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by any
means
and am quite new to it, so please be patient with me if some of my
questions
seem a little stupid!

Shame you have to grow it in a container, still if your heart is set on an
evergreen in a container, things to bear in mind are, container as large as
possable (or you will be watering for ever)
Very secure trellis that is about 3" off the wall (or the plants will damage
in the wind)

Choices that may work on an east wall that is not too frosty.
Ercilla volubilis (does self cling but tends to pull off due to its weight)
in full flower now and very scented.
Clematis armandii
Passiflora caerulea
Trachelospermum asiaticum or jasminoides (this will turn red in autumn as
well as be evergreen but glues itself to the wall (not like ivy or viginia
creeper) asiaticum flowers well but the jasminoides can be shy to flower,
the best form is called 'Majus' and there are a couple of very attractive
variegated forms.

I am very fond of Holboelia latifolia but the last few nights have stripped
the flower buds, ditto Akebia quinata, but that tends to be semi evergreen
if frosted.
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:


I am very fond of Holboelia latifolia but the last few nights have stripped
the flower buds, ditto Akebia quinata, but that tends to be semi evergreen
if frosted.

I shall see if my Akebia quinata flowers, though my experience is that
it is tolerably frost-resistant - on the other hand, it is reliably
deciduous with me, even in a very mild winter.

So far, I have not got Holboellia to flower, as the buds get frosted
by the slightest nip - even the new shoots die, but that is scarcely
a matter of concern, as it merely acts as a bit of pinching out.

I don't think that a mere -7 Celcius will be enough to worry either
Clematis armandii or Passiflora caerulea - curiously, I have found
the flower buds of the former to be more frost-resistant than the
shoots. And, of course, the latter is semi-evergreen, indeed almost
herbaceous, with me.

Most the above is the difference between where you live and where
I do.

What will be nasty is if this weather is followed by a long spell
of cold and wet, as that could let the bacteria and fungi into the
frost damage. That is more likely to be your problem than mine.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall.
However,
I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking
of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to
the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any
suggestions?

snip
where do you
live,

UK, zone 8

what is the aspect,
east facing

what soil do you have,

It will be planted in a long container, therefore I'll use the soil that
is
required (provided I can get hold of it)

and what other
properties do you want it to have?

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want it to
swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the wall I intend
putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some colour change on its
leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by any
means
and am quite new to it, so please be patient with me if some of my
questions
seem a little stupid!

Shame you have to grow it in a container, still if your heart is set on an
evergreen in a container, things to bear in mind are, container as large
as
possable (or you will be watering for ever)

I have a path that runs the course of the wall. Unfortunately the path
cannot be moved (Well I could, but then I'd have to clamber over the rest of
the garden to get to the rear of the house!)

Is it possible to calculate how much soil a climber requires to fully
mature? One of the other posters says that some climbers don't need a great
depth of soil.

I've had a look at the climbers you have suggested and all have got there
merits. When is the best time to plant. I am assuming that now is not the
best time, due to the extremely cold weather we are experiencing in the UK.

Alex

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I have a path that runs the course of the wall. Unfortunately the path
cannot be moved (Well I could, but then I'd have to clamber over the rest
of
the garden to get to the rear of the house!)

Is it possible to calculate how much soil a climber requires to fully
mature? One of the other posters says that some climbers don't need a
great
depth of soil.

I've had a look at the climbers you have suggested and all have got there
merits. When is the best time to plant. I am assuming that now is not the
best time, due to the extremely cold weather we are experiencing in the
UK.

Alex

What about knocking a hole in the path the same size as the space you were
going to take up with the pot?

With evergreens I would say spring is the best time, for me that would be
mid April (also check where the plants have been, if protected and suddenly
exposed they can suffer a shock)
As Nick says, with me its not the frost but the thaw that kills things, this
morning, the first for awhile above zero, the garden is a black mush!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)