Alex Woodward wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in [...]
OK, no windows is good news with ivy. But if you aren't an avid
gardener, can you promise yourself that you will never let the ivy
get as far as the barge-boards or the roof? It can loosen slates
and
prise apart the joints in woodwork.

I don't mind pruning now and again. Assuming they thrive, how often
do they need pruning. Do they grow as quickly as hedge rows for
example?

If you're moderately brutal, twice a year; if you're really brutal,
once. Unless you're artistic about it, it will look horrible for
amonth or two afterwards. But you cannot afford to forget twice
running.

[...]

Some ivies colour nicely in the autumn, and stay that way all
winter;
but it doesn't usually happen till they're mature, and may not
happen
at all if they're well fed (one beauty I selected carefully in the
wild still wasn't colouring up ten years later).

In that case, is it better not to feed them so well after they have
fully grown or are there serious disadvantages in going down that
route?

I don't mean feeding them in the sense of applying feed: they never
need that _at all_. I refer to the soil in which they grow. I put my
chosen colouring specimens in a mixture of subsoil and builders'
rubble, and they still thought it was absolutely delicious. My guess
is that they'd have started looking good once they'd exhausted that
soil in another twenty years or so (they root shallowly). There are
some absolutely beautiful pink-and-yellow ones in a rocky cutting on
the Great Western Railway outside Neath, if you ever make that
journey: they've probably been eking out the nutrients since Brunel's
time. Mine, a lovely dark and dusty pink, came from beside the road
near Pembroke.

On the matter of USDA-style zones, deprecated by Nick, the problem
with the British Isles is that they are relatively small areas of
extremely varied relief stuck in the North Atlantic: within them you
can find climates varying from, let's say, Maine to maybe North
Carolina to Oregon within a bus-ride. I recognize the map you refer
to as very much the same as what's in the standard agricultural
textbooks; but the trouble is, it only takes a hill, or a row of
houses, or even a wall to change the picture completely. It's
endlessly fascinating; but I can see why the Brits invented the US:
so much simpler!

Mike.

In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:


I am very fond of Holboelia latifolia but the last few nights have stripped
the flower buds, ditto Akebia quinata, but that tends to be semi evergreen
if frosted.

I shall see if my Akebia quinata flowers, though my experience is that
it is tolerably frost-resistant - on the other hand, it is reliably
deciduous with me, even in a very mild winter.

So far, I have not got Holboellia to flower, as the buds get frosted
by the slightest nip - even the new shoots die, but that is scarcely
a matter of concern, as it merely acts as a bit of pinching out.

I don't think that a mere -7 Celcius will be enough to worry either
Clematis armandii or Passiflora caerulea - curiously, I have found
the flower buds of the former to be more frost-resistant than the
shoots. And, of course, the latter is semi-evergreen, indeed almost
herbaceous, with me.

Most the above is the difference between where you live and where
I do.

What will be nasty is if this weather is followed by a long spell
of cold and wet, as that could let the bacteria and fungi into the
frost damage. That is more likely to be your problem than mine.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:

[ Ivy ]

If you're moderately brutal, twice a year; if you're really brutal,
once. Unless you're artistic about it, it will look horrible for
amonth or two afterwards. But you cannot afford to forget twice
running.

Oh, I don't know - just get out your machete and get stuck in! All
right, it will take a year or two to look good again.

On the matter of USDA-style zones, deprecated by Nick, the problem
with the British Isles is that they are relatively small areas of
extremely varied relief stuck in the North Atlantic: within them you
can find climates varying from, let's say, Maine to maybe North
Carolina to Oregon within a bus-ride. I recognize the map you refer
to as very much the same as what's in the standard agricultural
textbooks; but the trouble is, it only takes a hill, or a row of
houses, or even a wall to change the picture completely. It's
endlessly fascinating; but I can see why the Brits invented the US:
so much simpler!

Even worse, our two main clines have very little to do with the
lowest winter temperatures. While there IS a correlation between
those and the north/south sunshine levels, it is pretty misleading
when applied to the inhabited areas (which are increasingly maritime
as you go north). And the problem of waterlogging is correlated
more with soil than climate, though it has some correlation with
the west/east rainfall cline.

However, to refer to your USA examples - sorry, no. It's nothing
like that, I am afraid. Our variation is only Vancouver to Anchorage,
and we have nothing like those locations you mention. The reason
that USDA zones work there is that most of the main clines are very
strongly correlated, combined with the fact that the main cause of
winter tenderness IS the lowest winter temperature.

We could just about use their zones, provided that we don't assume
that USA "zone 8" plants are UK "zone 8" ones, but it would still be
pretty unreliable. That isn't how things work here.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I would like tips on a good plant that will help to cover a wall.
However,
I
don't want to use an ivy because of the associate risks. I am thinking
of
using a trellis, but don't want a plant that uses 'suckers' to cling to
the
wall itself. I would like a leafy evergreen if possible. Any
suggestions?

snip
where do you
live,

UK, zone 8

what is the aspect,
east facing

what soil do you have,

It will be planted in a long container, therefore I'll use the soil that
is
required (provided I can get hold of it)

and what other
properties do you want it to have?

Hopefully it will grow quite rapidly initially, though I don't want it to
swamp the house. I don't mind if it completely covers the wall I intend
putting it against though. Also I'd like to see some colour change on its
leaves during autumn.

By the way I'd like to point out that I am not an avid gardener by any
means
and am quite new to it, so please be patient with me if some of my
questions
seem a little stupid!

Shame you have to grow it in a container, still if your heart is set on an
evergreen in a container, things to bear in mind are, container as large
as
possable (or you will be watering for ever)

I have a path that runs the course of the wall. Unfortunately the path
cannot be moved (Well I could, but then I'd have to clamber over the rest of
the garden to get to the rear of the house!)

Is it possible to calculate how much soil a climber requires to fully
mature? One of the other posters says that some climbers don't need a great
depth of soil.

I've had a look at the climbers you have suggested and all have got there
merits. When is the best time to plant. I am assuming that now is not the
best time, due to the extremely cold weather we are experiencing in the UK.

Alex

In article , Mike Lyle mike_lyle_uk@REM
OVETHISyahoo.co.uk writes
If you're moderately brutal, twice a year; if you're really brutal,
once. Unless you're artistic about it, it will look horrible for
amonth or two afterwards. But you cannot afford to forget twice
running.

I've just got rid of my ivy. In a year it would grow from half way up
ground floor window to half way up first floor, and each year is thicker
growth than the last - I decided I couldn't guarantee to keep it away
from our roof tiles.

Ad it's a dreadful job - it seems to be very dusty and you get dust and
small flies and all sorts up your nose and in your eyes while you're
pruning.

Nick is right btw - we would be able to help much more if we knew where
you were. There's a big difference in what they can grow in, say,
Wiltshire and what I can grow in Yorkshire, and you'll see the Zone map
you referred to distinguishes only between the extreme W coastal strip
and northern hills above 1000m - everything else is lumped together.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

"Alex Woodward" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alex Woodward wrote:
I have a path that runs the course of the wall. Unfortunately the path
cannot be moved (Well I could, but then I'd have to clamber over the rest
of
the garden to get to the rear of the house!)

Is it possible to calculate how much soil a climber requires to fully
mature? One of the other posters says that some climbers don't need a
great
depth of soil.

I've had a look at the climbers you have suggested and all have got there
merits. When is the best time to plant. I am assuming that now is not the
best time, due to the extremely cold weather we are experiencing in the
UK.

Alex

What about knocking a hole in the path the same size as the space you were
going to take up with the pot?

With evergreens I would say spring is the best time, for me that would be
mid April (also check where the plants have been, if protected and suddenly
exposed they can suffer a shock)
As Nick says, with me its not the frost but the thaw that kills things, this
morning, the first for awhile above zero, the garden is a black mush!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)