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#1
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does one go about the
'puddling' and how durable are they? Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! ) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 |
#2
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 00:31:57 +0000, TWStannard wrote:
Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! ) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 How big is the pond? This would help to determine the best way to puddle the clay. Puddled clay is quite durable as long as you don't let it dry out, which in turn would cause the clay to crack. There are various factors that need to be taken into account with this type of pond ie the water feed to the pond. Is this going to be a natural source or another type of source? Let me know and I will try to help you further. |
#3
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
Thanks Nick
Im anticipating maybe 15 feet by 10 feet ish. It will be artificially fed (ie hose pipe), maybe some kind of auto top up, if I can figure it out. Tim "nick dickenson" wrote in message news On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 00:31:57 +0000, TWStannard wrote: Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! ) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 How big is the pond? This would help to determine the best way to puddle the clay. Puddled clay is quite durable as long as you don't let it dry out, which in turn would cause the clay to crack. There are various factors that need to be taken into account with this type of pond ie the water feed to the pond. Is this going to be a natural source or another type of source? Let me know and I will try to help you further. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 |
#4
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"TWStannard" wrote:
Hello TWStannard T Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does T one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? T Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on T solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. Lot of work too, which is why most are done with liners these days. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ |
#5
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
Simon Avery wrote: "TWStannard" wrote: Hello TWStannard T Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does T one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? T Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on T solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. One way round might be to line the pond edges with sacking so that it acts as a wick and keeps the exposed area damp. Presumably it would need more frequent topping up with such a system. However, deep rooted water plants will eventually break through the puddled clay anyway and cause leaks. We have a smallish pond in our boggy bit and are happy enough for it to be periodically dry (we have other lined ponds) and eventually fill up with irises. Anita Lot of work too, which is why most are done with liners these days. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ -- ************************************************** ************************* Dr Anita Malhotra e-mail: School of Biological Sciences Tel(direct line): + 44 1248 383735 University of Wales Bangor Fax: + 44 1248 371644 Gwynedd LL57 2UW United Kingdom ************************************************** ************************* |
#6
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"Simon Avery" wrote in message ... "TWStannard" wrote: Hello TWStannard T Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does T one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? T Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on T solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. The cracking problem is really only a problem when clay is imported to form a liner over permeable soils. I suspect that on solid clay the drying out and leaking problem would be less significant. Have a look in the books by Anthony archer wills, THE name in large scale water features. pk |
#7
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"TWStannard" wrote in message ... Thanks Nick Im anticipating maybe 15 feet by 10 feet ish. It will be artificially fed (ie hose pipe), maybe some kind of auto top up, if I can figure it out. Tim Auto top up can be achieved as with capillary beds with the use of a ball cock, in this case within a small tank sunk into the ground. -- Art Swap seeds and plants and visit many specialist garden forums at Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952 European Pages http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/ |
#8
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"Carol Russell" wrote in message ... "TWStannard" wrote in message ... Thanks Nick Im anticipating maybe 15 feet by 10 feet ish. It will be artificially fed (ie hose pipe), maybe some kind of auto top up, if I can figure it out. Tim Auto top up can be achieved as with capillary beds with the use of a ball cock, in this case within a small tank sunk into the ground. -- Art Swap seeds and plants and visit many specialist garden forums at Garden Web http://www.gardenweb.com My Garden Web exchange page http://www.gardenweb.com/members/exch/art1952 European Pages http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/ I have this graphic image of a toilet cistern sunk in with the lever being a pedal which is trod upon to flush the cistern! Wierd! L |
#9
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
In article , Simon Avery SPAM.B.GONEdigdilem@s
ofthome.net writes It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. Except in every canal in the country. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. Not true. Canals are usually built higher than the surrounding land to prevent flooding. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. If it is thick enough then it takes a good while to dry out. Canals have breeches, but as long as they are fixed within a few days the puddle is not damaged. Lot of work too, which is why most are done with liners these days. You do it in your bare feet, and get all the local kids involved. Don't put the red carpet out though! Jon -- Jon Rouse |
#10
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:50:56 +0000, TWStannard wrote:
Thanks Nick Im anticipating maybe 15 feet by 10 feet ish. It will be artificially fed (ie hose pipe), maybe some kind of auto top up, if I can figure it out. Tim "nick dickenson" wrote in message news On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 00:31:57 +0000, TWStannard wrote: Anyone have any experience of this type of pond? How does one go about the 'puddling' and how durable are they? Contemplating building a water feature, and as I live on solid clay, it could save me a tonne of money and lifting! ) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 How big is the pond? This would help to determine the best way to puddle the clay. Puddled clay is quite durable as long as you don't let it dry out, which in turn would cause the clay to crack. There are various factors that need to be taken into account with this type of pond ie the water feed to the pond. Is this going to be a natural source or another type of source? Let me know and I will try to help you further. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 25/12/2002 An artificially fed, puddled clay pond of this size could prove to be quite a headache in the summer when the water level drops due to evaporation. The parts of the bank left exposed will have a tendency to dry out and become cracked, which in turn will ruin the hard work that you put in to puddle the clay in the first place. With a pond of this size it may be better to use some form of liner. Also, with a pond of this size, using puddled clay, if either fish or water fowl come into the equation then you will nearly always have cloudy water to contend with. I know that this can still be a problem with a liner, but it is alot worse using puddled clay. With regards to how you go about getting the clay puddled in the first place, the way that I usually use is to hire a minidigger for a day (the type with caterpillar tracks) and spend a day driving the thing over the wet clay. It works a treat but this has always been on much larger ponds where you have the room to manouvre the thing, and get the thing out easily at the end of the day. I have this vision of a 10x15 feet pond with a minidigger as a permanent central feature :-) It's different I suppose, and looking at the recent entries at Chelsea may even make gold! ;-) I would seriously consider using some form of liner. It will be easier to maintain in the long run, and will allow you to enjoy your pond to the full. At the end of the day that is what horticulture is all about. FUN! I hope this is of some help. |
#11
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"A.Malhotra" wrote:
Hello A.Malhotra It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. AM One way round might be to line the pond edges with sacking AM so that it acts as a wick and keeps the exposed area damp. Um... Hessian sacking (nylon's non-absorbant so no use anyway) rots very quickly when damp. AM Presumably it would need more frequent topping up with such AM a system. However, deep rooted water plants will eventually AM break through the puddled clay anyway and cause leaks. Fair point, hadn't thought of that. AM We have a smallish pond in our boggy bit and are happy AM enough for it to be periodically dry (we have other lined AM ponds) and eventually fill up with irises. Anita According to some (not all) of the books I've read about ponding, using normal liners in saturated ground is a bad idea, and say the liner will rise to the surface. Personally I've got my doubts about that, given the weight of water above it, and that the water is the same density above or below the liner. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ |
#12
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
"PaulK" wrote:
Hello PaulK P The cracking problem is really only a problem when clay is P imported to form a liner over permeable soils. I suspect P that on solid clay the drying out and leaking problem would P be less significant. You're probably right, but even natural clay what has lived there for millenia does dry out quite easily if allowed to. My old garden was built on one of the largest ball-clay sites in Devon (Liverton Coldeast estate for the locals) and with the obligatory new estate's 1" of grubby topsoil we had slimy soil in the winter and dust in the summer. Just being clay doesn't automatically mean permanent wetness. And now I've got a garden built over an old lead mine. P Have a look in the books by Anthony archer wills, THE name P in large scale water features. Thanks, will keep an eye open. Doing quite nicely with mine now, top pond (4' square, block) now faced with granite, slate waterfall and 2nd small pond below all done. To do: Line and fill big pond (5M x 15M), fit bubble fountain at top point (12' lift), a 1/4 scale granite leat into top pond. Then a series of ponds or slow stream from there to the big pond again. The liner was supposed to be delivered today, but no way a lorry's going to get up our road - needed my snowchains on to get the car up just now. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ |
#13
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
In article , Simon Avery
writes It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. Lot of work too, which is why most are done with liners these days. A friend has a very, very large pond in her garden, ( about 80' x 60') built in the wettest part with trees all round so shaded, they hired a digger and flattened the surface with the bucket part thumped up and down, all over before allowing it to fill naturally. Seems to have worked for the last eight years -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
#14
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
Jon Rouse wrote:
Hello Jon It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. JR Except in every canal in the country. Very good point. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. JR Not true. Canals are usually built higher than the JR surrounding land to prevent flooding. But supplied with flowing water, and a certain amount of leakage is a given and factored into the design when built, and the scale of building is somewhat more than a garden pond. There's also a considerable amount of effort gone into keeping the level exactly so. But not many canals being built these days, so difficult to say whether a modern material would be used in preference. JOOI, do you know if anyone's done any costings on whether imported clay works out cheaper than, for example, butyl (4ukp per square metre)? Lot of work too, which is why most are done with liners these days. JR You do it in your bare feet, and get all the local kids JR involved. Don't put the red carpet out though! -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ |
#15
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Puddled clay Garden Pond
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:33:13 +0000, Simon Avery wrote:
"A.Malhotra" wrote: Hello A.Malhotra It was the only option before concrete and liners, and since then isn't much used. It /can/ work well, apparently, but only if the ground is naturally wet all the time anyway - ie, a low lying boggy area with a stream. And if the water level drops then the clay dries out where it's exposed and cracks. AM One way round might be to line the pond edges with sacking AM so that it acts as a wick and keeps the exposed area damp. Um... Hessian sacking (nylon's non-absorbant so no use anyway) rots very quickly when damp. AM Presumably it would need more frequent topping up with such AM a system. However, deep rooted water plants will eventually AM break through the puddled clay anyway and cause leaks. Fair point, hadn't thought of that. AM We have a smallish pond in our boggy bit and are happy AM enough for it to be periodically dry (we have other lined AM ponds) and eventually fill up with irises. Anita According to some (not all) of the books I've read about ponding, using normal liners in saturated ground is a bad idea, and say the liner will rise to the surface. Personally I've got my doubts about that, given the weight of water above it, and that the water is the same density above or below the liner. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/ Liners will rise in a pond due to the decomposition of organic matter below the liner. As long as any organic matter (ie dead leaves etc) are removed prior to the laying down of the liner, then it shouldn't fill with gas and rise. |
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