I am soon to move from a London flat to a house with a garden in
Surrey (my first garden – I'm so excited!). There's a patch of lawn
with borders on one side of the house, and a woodland area on the
other side. The woodland area is about 20 yards by 20, and has about
half a dozen well established (i.e. big!) trees in it (a mixture of
evergreen and deciduous as far as I can remember); and then there is a
fair amount of smaller stuff underneath. As you can imagine, it's
pretty shady. Most of the big trees have preservation orders on them
so I can't do anything with them (not that I'd want to anyway). The
woodland area slopes downhill fairly steeply from south to north. I
don't intend to do anything with this area for the first year – just
watch it and see what's in there – but I'd be interested in hearing
people's views on what I could do to "develop" this patch a bit. What
kind of plants could I encourage (or introduce) that would thrive in
this environment? Any advice gratefully received – I suspect I'm
going to be asking for lots of it in the coming months!

Thanks

John

.. Most of the big trees have preservation orders on them
so I can't do anything with them (not that I'd want to anyway).

Please don't think that a preservation order is a cast iron case that you
cannot do anything with them. They can even be chopped down. We have had a
blanket preservation order removed, TPO (Tree Preservation Orders) placed on
certain ones and felled the rest.

It is not the ogre many people think it is. They can be felled for instance
is they are in danger of damaging people or property, subject to
consultation of course.

Mike
been there, done that, got the tree shirt

Generally, do what comes naturally. There are a fair number of
woodland plants, but many are thugs; if you have ramsons or
bluebells, you won't have much else. You need to check what the
soil is, how dense the shade is, and how much water gets there.
Basically, go for woodland bulbs and similar herbaceous plants,
perhaps some woodland shrubs (I recommend Danae racemosa, if you
can get it) and possibly the odd climber.

Your strategy of watching for a year is quite right, though you
might want to plant some bulbs in August or early September if
they seem appropriate.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 18 Mar 2005 10:16:19 -0800, (John) wrote:

I am soon to move from a London flat to a house with a garden in
Surrey (my first garden – I'm so excited!). There's a patch of lawn
with borders on one side of the house, and a woodland area on the
other side. The woodland area is about 20 yards by 20, and has about
half a dozen well established (i.e. big!) trees in it (a mixture of
evergreen and deciduous as far as I can remember); and then there is a
fair amount of smaller stuff underneath. As you can imagine, it's
pretty shady. Most of the big trees have preservation orders on them
so I can't do anything with them (not that I'd want to anyway). The
woodland area slopes downhill fairly steeply from south to north. I
don't intend to do anything with this area for the first year – just
watch it and see what's in there – but I'd be interested in hearing
people's views on what I could do to "develop" this patch a bit. What
kind of plants could I encourage (or introduce) that would thrive in
this environment? Any advice gratefully received – I suspect I'm
going to be asking for lots of it in the coming months!

Beg, buy, steal or borrow Beth Chatto's 'Woodland Garden' More ideas
than you can shake a stick at - and gorgeous pictures with really good
plant associations.

=================================================

Rod

Weed my email address to reply.
http://website.lineone.net/~rodcraddock/index.html

Nick Maclaren wrote:
Generally, do what comes naturally. There are a fair number of
woodland plants, but many are thugs; if you have ramsons or
bluebells, you won't have much else. You need to check what the
soil is, how dense the shade is, and how much water gets there.
Basically, go for woodland bulbs and similar herbaceous plants,
perhaps some woodland shrubs (I recommend Danae racemosa, if you
can get it) and possibly the odd climber.

Your strategy of watching for a year is quite right, though you
might want to plant some bulbs in August or early September if
they seem appropriate.

Meanwhile, because one's fingers are itchy, you could sow some wild
primrose seed right now in trays or cells, and take them with you to
plant out when they're big enough. Snowdrops when the time comes, of
course. Lucky man!

--
Mike.

John wrote in message
om...
I am soon to move from a London flat to a house with a garden in
Surrey (my first garden - I'm so excited!). There's a patch of lawn
with borders on one side of the house, and a woodland area on the
other side. The woodland area is about 20 yards by 20, and has about
half a dozen well established (i.e. big!) trees in it (a mixture of
evergreen and deciduous as far as I can remember); and then there is a
fair amount of smaller stuff underneath. As you can imagine, it's
pretty shady. Most of the big trees have preservation orders on them
so I can't do anything with them (not that I'd want to anyway). The
woodland area slopes downhill fairly steeply from south to north. I
don't intend to do anything with this area for the first year - just
watch it and see what's in there - but I'd be interested in hearing
people's views on what I could do to "develop" this patch a bit. What
kind of plants could I encourage (or introduce) that would thrive in
this environment? Any advice gratefully received - I suspect I'm
going to be asking for lots of it in the coming months!

Thanks

John

Hi John,

Congratulations. You're going to love shade gardening. My woodland garden
is my favourite, esp. at this time of year.

The Tree Preservation Orders are a good thing. Too many people get a
knee-jerk reaction when they encounter a tree. However, if the shade is
profoundly dense, you may be able to negotiate some crown raising or
thinning with your local TP Officer. He may also be able to recommend a
tree surgeon if he can't do the job himself. I'm glad you want to keep the
trees.

There are so many things you can plant in a shade garden. First of all
though, you need to assess the depth of shade. My woodland area is light to
medium shade, and it allows me to grow:

Snowdrops (Galanthus sp.), Winter Aconites (Eranthis sp.), Wood
Anemones (Anemone nemorosa) and A. blanda, Ranunculus, Snowflakes
(Leucojum sp.) Dog's Tooth Violets (Erythronium sp.), Crocus (in v.
light shade), Sternbergia, Colchicums, Hyacinthus, Narcissus,
Chionodoxa .. and many more.

Herbaceous and evergreen perennials include: Dicentra, Aquilegia,
Lunaria (Honesty), Tellima, Heuchera, Primula, Vinca (Perriwinkle),
Symphytum, Pulmonaria, Japanese Anemone, Tolmea, Helleborus, Corydalis,
Bergenia, Tricyrtis, Saxifraga, Lamium, Ferns, some Lilies, some
Fritillarias.

There are also many shrubs, but you may feel you have a lot of woody plants
already. Once you are on site, take every opportunity to walk around your
woodland. This will help you establish where paths and favoured walking
areas are; whether or not there's a glade, for instance. Before you start
planting, define your pathways first, so that you have a framework to plant
around, and also from which you can weed and manage the planting.

A good shade gardening book is: Best Shade Plants by Stefan Buczacki.
ISBN 0-600-57734-1.

Regards,
Spider

"Spider" wrote in message
...

John wrote in message
om...
I am soon to move from a London flat to a house with a garden in
Surrey (my first garden - I'm so excited!). There's a patch of lawn
with borders on one side of the house, and a woodland area on the
other side. The woodland area is about 20 yards by 20, and has about
half a dozen well established (i.e. big!) trees in it (a mixture of
evergreen and deciduous as far as I can remember); and then there is a
fair amount of smaller stuff underneath. As you can imagine, it's
pretty shady. Most of the big trees have preservation orders on them
so I can't do anything with them (not that I'd want to anyway). The
woodland area slopes downhill fairly steeply from south to north. I
don't intend to do anything with this area for the first year - just
watch it and see what's in there - but I'd be interested in hearing
people's views on what I could do to "develop" this patch a bit. What
kind of plants could I encourage (or introduce) that would thrive in
this environment? Any advice gratefully received - I suspect I'm
going to be asking for lots of it in the coming months!

Thanks

John

Hi John,

Congratulations. You're going to love shade gardening. My woodland
garden
is my favourite, esp. at this time of year.

The Tree Preservation Orders are a good thing. Too many people get a
knee-jerk reaction when they encounter a tree. However, if the shade is
profoundly dense, you may be able to negotiate some crown raising or
thinning with your local TP Officer. He may also be able to recommend a
tree surgeon if he can't do the job himself. I'm glad you want to keep
the
trees.

There are so many things you can plant in a shade garden. First of all
though, you need to assess the depth of shade. My woodland area is light
to
medium shade, and it allows me to grow:

Snowdrops (Galanthus sp.), Winter Aconites (Eranthis sp.),
Wood
Anemones (Anemone nemorosa) and A. blanda, Ranunculus, Snowflakes
(Leucojum sp.) Dog's Tooth Violets (Erythronium sp.), Crocus (in v.
light shade), Sternbergia, Colchicums, Hyacinthus, Narcissus,
Chionodoxa .. and many more.

Herbaceous and evergreen perennials include: Dicentra, Aquilegia,
Lunaria (Honesty), Tellima, Heuchera, Primula, Vinca (Perriwinkle),
Symphytum, Pulmonaria, Japanese Anemone, Tolmea, Helleborus, Corydalis,
Bergenia, Tricyrtis, Saxifraga, Lamium, Ferns, some Lilies, some
Fritillarias.

There are also many shrubs, but you may feel you have a lot of woody
plants
already. Once you are on site, take every opportunity to walk around your
woodland. This will help you establish where paths and favoured walking
areas are; whether or not there's a glade, for instance. Before you start
planting, define your pathways first, so that you have a framework to
plant
around, and also from which you can weed and manage the planting.

A good shade gardening book is: Best Shade Plants by Stefan Buczacki.
ISBN 0-600-57734-1.

Regards,
Spider

How about Bluebells & Foxgloves, or did you mention those?

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I think some books to browse is
definitely the way to go for starters - I had a quick leaf through
Beth Chatto's book in the local bookshop, which is quite inspiring!
Rest assured I'll be back for more inspiration and advice soon enough!

Happy gardening...

John,

I think bluebell woods would look beautiful in your garden, people always complain about bluebells taking over. Wild English bluebells take a long time to develop and spread, so I wouldn't be too worried. Its the spanish you don't want.

I have found a really good licenced supplyer of wild english bluebell seeds. You can buy packets on their website: www.farnellfarm.co.uk