"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
news

I am sorry but the thought of any creature struggling to breath for
several
minutes while underwater turns my stomach.

You have absolutely no idea of the prcedure for disposing of vermin, when
I had to start dealing with these pests, I was concerned about the effect
it was having, so I timed it, it generaly takes less that ten seconds.
You are deluding yourself.It would be able to hold its breath, then even
after the first lungful of water it would be concious for some seconds. May
I suggest you hold your head in a bucket of water until your lungs are
bursting, then inhale some water, then come back and tell me is is painless
and humane. As I said before, I nearly drowned as a 9 year old child and it
was terrifying.The mere thought of it makes me take big gulps of breath just
to dispell the mental image.

This is nothing compared with the suffering this vermin makes when it
raids
birds nests.
You obviously hate the things because you are imagining things. When any
animal raids a birds nest it will take eggs and chicks, the chicks I would
assume die quickly from a bite or shock. Nothing compared to drowning. Cull
if you must but have the decency to do it quickly, painlessly and without
causing undue terror or suffering. You make it sound like you almost justify
causing suffering because they are so great a vermin.

"pammyT" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
news

I am sorry but the thought of any creature struggling to breath for
several
minutes while underwater turns my stomach.

You have absolutely no idea of the prcedure for disposing of vermin, when
I had to start dealing with these pests, I was concerned about the effect
it was having, so I timed it, it generaly takes less that ten seconds.
You are deluding yourself.It would be able to hold its breath, then even
after the first lungful of water it would be concious for some seconds.
May
I suggest you hold your head in a bucket of water until your lungs are
bursting, then inhale some water, then come back and tell me is is
painless
and humane. As I said before, I nearly drowned as a 9 year old child and
it
was terrifying.The mere thought of it makes me take big gulps of breath
just
to dispell the mental image.

This is nothing compared with the suffering this vermin makes when it
raids
birds nests.
You obviously hate the things because you are imagining things. When any
animal raids a birds nest it will take eggs and chicks, the chicks I would
assume die quickly from a bite or shock. Nothing compared to drowning.
Cull
if you must but have the decency to do it quickly, painlessly and without
causing undue terror or suffering. You make it sound like you almost
justify
causing suffering because they are so great a vermin.

I do wonder whether you read any of my posts properly.

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

It is widely recognised in this country that the grey squirrel is vermin
and has to be kept under control, if you are unhappy about that then I
suggest you stop reading uk newsgroups.

In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in respect of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of killing of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

"BAC" wrote in message
.. .

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department
called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in respect
of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of killing
of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he
claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

I am not going to put myself at risk in order to follow some idea put by
people who have never had to deal with these pests.

In fact, I invite you do come round and deal with the next one I catch!

In article , Alan Holmes
writes

"BAC" wrote in message
. ..

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department
called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in respect
of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of killing
of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he
claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

I am not going to put myself at risk in order to follow some idea put by
people who have never had to deal with these pests.

These would be the same people whose authority you were quoting in
support of your practice of drowning?

In fact, I invite you do come round and deal with the next one I catch!







--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"BAC" wrote in message
.. .

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department
called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure
I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them
and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in
respect
of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap
and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a
vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of
killing
of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he
claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect
any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

I am not going to put myself at risk in order to follow some idea put by
people who have never had to deal with these pests.

That is the Forestry Commission you are talking about, the same organisation
you previously claimed to be advocating drowning as a means of disposal.

If you are unwilling to put yourself at risk to do the job humanely, perhaps
you should not be doing it at all?


In fact, I invite you do come round and deal with the next one I catch!


No, thanks, I have no wish to kill your grey squirrels. But I expect you
could find professional pest controllers in your area who would be willing
to do the job properly, for a price, and at no risk to yourself.

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...


I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department
called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure
I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them
and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in
respect
of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap
and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a
vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of
killing
of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he
claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect
any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

I am not going to put myself at risk in order to follow some idea put by
people who have never had to deal with these pests.

That is the Forestry Commission you are talking about, the same
organisation
you previously claimed to be advocating drowning as a means of disposal.

If you are unwilling to put yourself at risk to do the job humanely,
perhaps
you should not be doing it at all?


In fact, I invite you do come round and deal with the next one I catch!


No, thanks, I have no wish to kill your grey squirrels. But I expect you
could find professional pest controllers in your area who would be willing
to do the job properly, for a price, and at no risk to yourself.

Is it normal to pay someone to catch rats and mice?

The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in respect of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of killing of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I'd recommend that the twerp who dreamt-up the blunt instrument
treatment should be given a squirrel and a blunt instrument, and filmed.

And how much do they think a vet would charge per squirrel?

The advice is pure cloud-cuckooland, and worthy of the worst excesses of
the so-called 'animal rights' lobby.

I don't believe in allowing any animal to suffer just for the
convenience of mankind, but there are limits to altruism. If ever I have
to dispatch a squirrel in a trap, it will be shot.

I have asked Alan to provide a reference for the 'drowning' advice he claims
to have had from the FC, but none has yet been forthcoming. I suspect any
such advice may turn out to have been superseded.

I expect you're right. These regulations are changing all the time. Most
of them can be amended by (I think it's called) an Order In Council, and
doesn't need to be debated in the House: even then, it's unlikely to
make the headlines.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in
respect of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap
and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a
vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of
killing of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I'd recommend that the twerp who dreamt-up the blunt instrument
treatment should be given a squirrel and a blunt instrument, and filmed.

And how much do they think a vet would charge per squirrel?

The advice is pure cloud-cuckooland, and worthy of the worst excesses of
the so-called 'animal rights' lobby.

Well, that's the Forestry Commission for you (emphatically not an AR
organisation), the same organisation which Alan cited as authority for
drowning the animals, which is of course the main reason I've referred to
them, since he's hoist on his own petard, so to speak.


I don't believe in allowing any animal to suffer just for the
convenience of mankind, but there are limits to altruism. If ever I have
to dispatch a squirrel in a trap, it will be shot.

Which would be OK by the RSPCA and also with Environmental Health at some
Council websites I've seen. If you've read the Forestry Commission PDF files
I've posted the links for, you'll have seen one reason they don't recommend
shooting the squirrel in the trap is they're worried about a possible
ricochet causing human injury, so maybe it's 'Health and Safety' mania at
the root of it. I also noticed they are worried about use of steel pellets
in shooting in their woods because of the effect they can have on the value
of timber.

The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

Which would be OK by the RSPCA and also with Environmental Health at some
Council websites I've seen. If you've read the Forestry Commission PDF files
I've posted the links for, you'll have seen one reason they don't recommend
shooting the squirrel in the trap is they're worried about a possible
ricochet causing human injury, so maybe it's 'Health and Safety' mania at
the root of it. I also noticed they are worried about use of steel pellets
in shooting in their woods because of the effect they can have on the value
of timber.

I'm sure you're right about their reservations about shooting them,
however, I challenge anyone to produce a dangerous richochet from a wire
cage trap.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in
respect of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap
and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a
vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of
killing of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I'd recommend that the twerp who dreamt-up the blunt instrument
treatment should be given a squirrel and a blunt instrument, and filmed.

And how much do they think a vet would charge per squirrel?

The advice is pure cloud-cuckooland, and worthy of the worst excesses of
the so-called 'animal rights' lobby.

Well, that's the Forestry Commission for you (emphatically not an AR
organisation), the same organisation which Alan cited as authority for
drowning the animals, which is of course the main reason I've referred to
them, since he's hoist on his own petard, so to speak.


I don't believe in allowing any animal to suffer just for the
convenience of mankind, but there are limits to altruism. If ever I have
to dispatch a squirrel in a trap, it will be shot.

If I had a gun this may be the method I'd use, but I don't have a gun.


Which would be OK by the RSPCA and also with Environmental Health at some
Council websites I've seen. If you've read the Forestry Commission PDF
files
I've posted the links for, you'll have seen one reason they don't
recommend
shooting the squirrel in the trap is they're worried about a possible
ricochet causing human injury, so maybe it's 'Health and Safety' mania at
the root of it. I also noticed they are worried about use of steel pellets
in shooting in their woods because of the effect they can have on the
value
of timber.

Squirrels cause a great deal of damage other than to trees, they steal
things I grow for my own consumption, they kill birds by destroying the
eggs, they dig up plants, they break into peoples homes destroying
property, chewing through electricity cables putting human beings at
risk from electrocution and fire, both children and the elderly, as
well as all sorts of other problems.

But you wouldn't want to be bothered about things like that, would you?

It requires a little common sense.

I don't understand how you can ignore this destruction,

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "BAC" contains these words:

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

I think the most applicable may be
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcpn004.pdf/$FILE/fcpn004.pdf
specific to the control of grey squirrels in woodlands, which, in
respect of
live trapping, recommends that the squirrels be removed from the trap
and
killed with a blow to the head from a blunt instrument, or taken to a
vet
for humane destruction. It goes so far as to say no other form of
killing of
live trapped squirrels should be attempted (and that includes shooting
them).

I'd recommend that the twerp who dreamt-up the blunt instrument
treatment should be given a squirrel and a blunt instrument, and filmed.

And how much do they think a vet would charge per squirrel?

The advice is pure cloud-cuckooland, and worthy of the worst excesses of
the so-called 'animal rights' lobby.

Well, that's the Forestry Commission for you (emphatically not an AR
organisation), the same organisation which Alan cited as authority for
drowning the animals, which is of course the main reason I've referred to
them, since he's hoist on his own petard, so to speak.


I don't believe in allowing any animal to suffer just for the
convenience of mankind, but there are limits to altruism. If ever I have
to dispatch a squirrel in a trap, it will be shot.

Which would be OK by the RSPCA and also with Environmental Health at some
Council websites I've seen. If you've read the Forestry Commission PDF
files
I've posted the links for, you'll have seen one reason they don't
recommend
shooting the squirrel in the trap is they're worried about a possible
ricochet causing human injury, so maybe it's 'Health and Safety' mania at
the root of it. I also noticed they are worried about use of steel pellets
in shooting in their woods because of the effect they can have on the
value
of timber.

So can you give us a precise method of extracting this extreemly dangerous
vermin from the trap in order to shoot it?

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

What sensible/practical method do they now suggest is the way to despatch
them?

Alan

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes
writes

I follow a procedure which is laid down by a governmenr department
called
The Forestry Commission, if you have any problems with that procedure I
suggest instead of trying to slag people off here, you contact them and
put your concerns to them.

You are advocating drowning, which does not appear to be advocated by
the Forestry Commission in any of its currently applicable documents
referring to grey squirrel control.

What sensible/practical method do they now suggest is the way to despatch
them?

If you have read the pdf document linked to my response to Kay's message,
you will know the two methods recommended by the FC are either administation
of a lethal blow to the head with a blunt instrument, or transportation to a
vet for humane destruction. No mention of drowning, in fact they recommend
that no means of destruction other than those I've just mentioned should be
attempted.