[Billy[_7_]]

Latest Scientific American, April '09, article (Saving the Honey Bee,
pg. 40) claims the a virus, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV), and
some mitigating factors like poor nutrition, and exposure to pesticides
are responsible for CCD.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCCc4g9wM8&NR=1

[phorbin]

In article wildbilly-7CDA27.10210721032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...

Latest Scientific American, April '09, article (Saving the Honey Bee,
pg. 40) claims the a virus, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV), and
some mitigating factors like poor nutrition, and exposure to pesticides
are responsible for CCD.

The mitigating factors sound like primary causes to me.

Are they claiming it for a fact, probability or possibility?

[Billy[_7_]]

In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article wildbilly-7CDA27.10210721032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...

Latest Scientific American, April '09, article (Saving the Honey Bee,
pg. 40) claims the a virus, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV), and
some mitigating factors like poor nutrition, and exposure to pesticides
are responsible for CCD.

The mitigating factors sound like primary causes to me.

Are they claiming it for a fact, probability or possibility?

Nutrition, by itself, as well as pesticids by themselves, were ruled out
as a cause of CCD. Samples of bees were tossed into a VERY high tech
blender and the resulting DNA was sequenced to see what was inside the
bees, besides the bees. They found 8 bacteria that had been identified
in previous studies, 2 nosema species (?), 2 fungi, and several bee
viruses.
One virus stood out because it had never been identifies in the U.S.
before; IAPV. IAPV was first identified in 2004 at the Hebrew University
of Jerusalem. IAPV was identified by the article as having been present
in almost all, but not all, cases of CCD that they studied. It was
present in one colony of bees not exhibiting CCD symptoms. The strong
correlation isn't proof that CCD is caused by IAPV. There is a
possibility that CCD weakened the bees and made them vulnerable t
a IAPV infection.

For more, read the article, or see http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/ .
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCCc4g9wM8&NR=1

[Billy[_7_]]

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCCc4g9wM8&NR=1

[Bill[_13_]]

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:25:16 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)

This "To hell with the bees" statement was meant to be sarcastic, but
didn't usenet translate well apparently. You know, most of what will
be left to eat will be monsatano controlled grains, etc.......

Oh well, sometimes things just fall flat.... ;-)

Charlie


Some spam concerning honey that does not crystallize over time.

http://www.lltupelohoney.com/index.htm

Bill had some this AM on Buckwheat pancakes.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

[Billy[_7_]]

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:25:16 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)

This "To hell with the bees" statement was meant to be sarcastic, but
didn't usenet translate well apparently. You know, most of what will
be left to eat will be monsatano controlled grains, etc.......

Oh well, sometimes things just fall flat.... ;-)

Charlie

Yeah, I know big guy. I was just underlining your statement with my
crayon ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCCc4g9wM8&NR=1

[Billy[_7_]]

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:25:16 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)

This "To hell with the bees" statement was meant to be sarcastic, but
didn't usenet translate well apparently. You know, most of what will
be left to eat will be monsatano controlled grains, etc.......

Oh well, sometimes things just fall flat.... ;-)

Charlie


Some spam concerning honey that does not crystallize over time.

http://www.lltupelohoney.com/index.htm

Bill had some this AM on Buckwheat pancakes.

HIGH FRUCTOSE, LOW GLUCOSE RATIO? J____ H. _____t, how is this different
then than "high fructose corn syrup"? Fructose requires an enzyme
in the liver to break it down. If this enzyme is depleted, the fructose
is stored as fat in your liver. Causality is still in dispute but
high fructose corn syrup came on the market at about the time that the
present Type II diabetes epidemic started. Glucose on the other hand is
your friend and is easily metabolized. Maybe too easily, but there you
have it.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCCc4g9wM8&NR=1

[Bill[_13_]]

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:25:16 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)

This "To hell with the bees" statement was meant to be sarcastic, but
didn't usenet translate well apparently. You know, most of what will
be left to eat will be monsatano controlled grains, etc.......

Oh well, sometimes things just fall flat.... ;-)

Charlie


Some spam concerning honey that does not crystallize over time.

http://www.lltupelohoney.com/index.htm

Bill had some this AM on Buckwheat pancakes.

HIGH FRUCTOSE, LOW GLUCOSE RATIO? J____ H. _____t, how is this different
then than "high fructose corn syrup"? Fructose requires an enzyme
in the liver to break it down. If this enzyme is depleted, the fructose
is stored as fat in your liver. Causality is still in dispute but
high fructose corn syrup came on the market at about the time that the
present Type II diabetes epidemic started. Glucose on the other hand is
your friend and is easily metabolized. Maybe too easily, but there you
have it.

From the site mentioned.

"Real Tupelo honey is a light golden amber color with a greenish cast.*
The flavor is delicious, delicate and distinctive; a choice table grade
honey.* Good white tupelo, unmixed with other honeys, will not
granulate, and due to this high fructose low glucose ratio some diabetic
patients have been permitted by their physicians to eat Tupelo honey.*
Average analysis:* fructose 44.03% glucose 29.98%. "

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

[phorbin]

In article wildbilly-2E5192.20032821032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...
In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article wildbilly-7CDA27.10210721032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...

Latest Scientific American, April '09, article (Saving the Honey Bee,
pg. 40) claims the a virus, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV), and
some mitigating factors like poor nutrition, and exposure to pesticides
are responsible for CCD.

The mitigating factors sound like primary causes to me.

Are they claiming it for a fact, probability or possibility?

Nutrition, by itself, as well as pesticids by themselves, were ruled out
as a cause of CCD. Samples of bees were tossed into a VERY high tech
blender and the resulting DNA was sequenced to see what was inside the
bees, besides the bees. They found 8 bacteria that had been identified
in previous studies, 2 nosema species (?), 2 fungi, and several bee
viruses.

Nosema Apis and Nosema Ceranae... related to fungi.

Wikipedia has an article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosema_apis

While I'm sure you're aware of the following site, just for the record
The UK Beekeepers have a good diseases page.

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/articles/bee_diseases.php

One virus stood out because it had never been identifies in the U.S.
before; IAPV. IAPV was first identified in 2004 at the Hebrew University
of Jerusalem. IAPV was identified by the article as having been present
in almost all, but not all, cases of CCD that they studied. It was
present in one colony of bees not exhibiting CCD symptoms. The strong
correlation isn't proof that CCD is caused by IAPV. There is a
possibility that CCD weakened the bees and made them vulnerable t
a IAPV infection.

For more, read the article, or see http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/ .

Thanks for posting the link. I'm familiar with the site, just a few
months out of date. Been busy with a neighbourhood vs parking lot
expansion.

I'll read the article at the library tomorrow.

[Billy[_7_]]

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:43:03 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Bill wrote:


Some spam concerning honey that does not crystallize over time.

http://www.lltupelohoney.com/index.htm

Bill had some this AM on Buckwheat pancakes.

HIGH FRUCTOSE, LOW GLUCOSE RATIO? J____ H. _____t, how is this different
then than "high fructose corn syrup"? Fructose requires an enzyme
in the liver to break it down. If this enzyme is depleted, the fructose
is stored as fat in your liver. Causality is still in dispute but
high fructose corn syrup came on the market at about the time that the
present Type II diabetes epidemic started. Glucose on the other hand is
your friend and is easily metabolized. Maybe too easily, but there you
have it.

Doesn't the problem lie in both the source *and* the amounts? HFCS is
added to so many processed foods and we get a compound effect from all
the additions. Isn't the fructose found in honey the same fructose,
not refined, as found in fruits, etc?

True, glucose is metabolized quite easily, but with a significant
effect upon insulin release and production. This insulin response is
lower with fructose, and I mean fructose found in natural products,
not the refined fructose that you can use as sweetner or that is added
to products.

Perhaps, as is often the case with other things, moderation is key.
From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose

"Unlike glucose, fructose is almost entirely metabolized in the liver.
"When fructose reaches the liver," says Dr. William J. Whelan, a
biochemist at the University of Miami School of Medicine, "the liver
goes bananas and stops everything else to metabolize the fructose."
Eating fructose as compared to glucose results in lower circulating
insulin (pancreatic beta cell insulin release is controlled only by
blood glucose levels) and leptin levels, and attenuation in the
suppression of ghrelin postprandially.[53] These hormones are
implicated in the control of appetite and satiety, and it is suspected
that eating large amounts of fructose increases the likelihood of
weight gain.[54]"

Note "large amounts"

Think glycemic index. Aren't foods often more than a sum of their
parts?

What you say about the epidemic of type II and the correlation to HCFS
appears to be true.

Charlie, off to the garden and do something....anything.

There is a limited amount of enzyme in the liver that can convert
fructose to glucose. It is a finite quantity at any given time.
Once it is used up, fat starts getting deposited in the liver. That's
not all. It is just the beginning. Wish I could give you chapter and
verse on this right now, but it has been too long since I had it in my
retrievable memory. In the mean time try:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0823094819.htm

.. . emerging evidence from recent epidemiological and biochemical
studies clearly suggests that the high dietary intake of fructose has
rapidly become an important causative factor in the development of the
metabolic syndrome. There is an urgent need for increased public
awareness of the risks associated with high fructose consumption and
greater efforts should be made to curb the supplementation of packaged
foods with high fructose additives.

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellne...0/?page=entire

MICHAEL POLLAN: I think it's really an important thing to do. The fact
is we've had 50 years of letting corporations cook our meals, and it
appears now that they were not doing a very good job of it. The food
they're cooking is making people sick. It is one of the reasons that we
have the obesity and diabetes epidemics that we do. And it's not
surprising because they do not take as much care of our health and
welfare as our parents do when they cook for us.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/1...thor_journalis
t
MICHAEL POLLAN: The Western diseases, which--they were named that about a
hundred years ago by a medical doctor named Denis Burkitt, an
Englishman, who noted that there--after the Western diet comes to these
countries where he had spent a lot of time in Africa and Asia, a series
of Western diseases followed, very predictably: obesity, diabetes, heart
disease and a specific set of cancers. And he said, well, they must have
this common origin, because we keep seeing this pattern.

And we've known this for a hundred years, that if you eat this
Western diet, which is defined basically as--I mean, we all know what the
Western diet is, but to reiterate it, it's lots of processed food, lots
of refined grain and pure sugar, lots of red meat and processed meats,
very little whole grains, very little fresh fruits and vegetables.
That's the Western diet--it's the fast-food diet--that we know it leads to
those diseases. About 80 percent of heart disease, at least as much Type
II diabetes, 33 to 40 percent cancers all come out of eating that way,
and we know this. And the odd thing is that it doesn't seem to
discomfort us that much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup

In his recent book In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto, journalist
Michael Pollan claims that the way that the body processes HFCS is
different from the way it processes the glucose and fructose found in
other sugars. Digesting sucrose requires the production of an enzyme
called sucrase, which breaks the bond between the glucose molecule and
the fructose molecule. Because the body regulates its production of
sucrase, it can only digest sucrose at a certain rate. Because digesting
HFCS does not require sucrase, the rate at which it is digested is not
similarly regulated by the body.[citation needed]
Elliot et al.,[26] implicate increased consumption of fructose (due
primarily to the increased consumption of sugars but also partly due to
the slightly higher fructose content of HFCS as compared to sucrose) in
obesity and insulin resistance. Chi-Tang Ho et al. found that soft
drinks sweetened with HFCS are up to 10 times richer in harmful carbonyl
compounds, such as methylglyoxal, than a diet soft drink control.[27]
Carbonyl compounds are elevated in people with diabetes and are blamed
for causing diabetic complications such as foot ulcers and eye and nerve
damage;[28][29]
A study in mice suggests that fructose increases obesity.[30] Large
quantities of fructose stimulate the liver to produce triglycerides,
promotes glycation of proteins and induces insulin resistance.[31]
According to one study, the average American consumes nearly 70 pounds
of HFCS a year, marking HFCS as a major contributor to the rising rates
of obesity in the last generation. [32]
In a 2007 study, rats were fed a diet high in fat and HFCS and kept them
relatively sedentary for 16 weeks in an attempt to emulate the diet and
lifestyle of many Americans.[33] The rats were not forced to eat, but
were able to eat as much as they wanted; they consumed a large amount of
food, suggesting that fructose suppresses the sensation of fullness.
Within four weeks, the rats showed early signs of fatty liver disease
and type II diabetes. Shapiro et al. fed rats a high-fructose diet for
six months and compared them to rats that had been fed a fructose-free
diet. Although the rats that had consumed high levels of fructose showed
no change in weight, when compared to the rats that had consumed a
fructose-free diet, levels of leptin in the blood of rats fed a
high-fructose diet indicated the development of leptin resistance. When
the rats were switched to a high-fat diet, the leptin-resistant rats,
those fed a high-fructose diet, gained more weight than those who had
not developed the resistance and had been fed a fructose-free diet.[34]
------

BEWARE PROCESSED FOODS
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

[Billy[_7_]]

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Bill wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:25:16 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

To hell with the bees.

Uh, I hesitate to mention that bees are to big to let fail. They
are responsible for about 30% of what we eat.

But continue on, it's a good rant ;O)

This "To hell with the bees" statement was meant to be sarcastic, but
didn't usenet translate well apparently. You know, most of what will
be left to eat will be monsatano controlled grains, etc.......

Oh well, sometimes things just fall flat.... ;-)

Charlie


Some spam concerning honey that does not crystallize over time.

http://www.lltupelohoney.com/index.htm

Bill had some this AM on Buckwheat pancakes.

HIGH FRUCTOSE, LOW GLUCOSE RATIO? J____ H. _____t, how is this different
then than "high fructose corn syrup"? Fructose requires an enzyme
in the liver to break it down. If this enzyme is depleted, the fructose
is stored as fat in your liver. Causality is still in dispute but
high fructose corn syrup came on the market at about the time that the
present Type II diabetes epidemic started. Glucose on the other hand is
your friend and is easily metabolized. Maybe too easily, but there you
have it.

From the site mentioned.

"Real Tupelo honey is a light golden amber color with a greenish cast.*
The flavor is delicious, delicate and distinctive; a choice table grade
honey.* Good white tupelo, unmixed with other honeys, will not
granulate, and due to this high fructose low glucose ratio some diabetic
patients have been permitted by their physicians to eat Tupelo honey.*
Average analysis:* fructose 44.03% glucose 29.98%. "

Bill

Bill,
this makes a weird kind of sense. I presume the fructose conversion
takes longer, and gives the body more time to deal with the resulting
glucose. In type II diabetes, the problem isn't insulin production.
The problem is getting the insulin into the cell, where it does its'
work. See my response to Charlie.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

[Bill[_13_]]

In article
,
Billy wrote:

this makes a weird kind of sense. I presume the fructose conversion
takes longer, and gives the body more time to deal with the resulting
glucose. In type II diabetes, the problem isn't insulin production.
The problem is getting the insulin into the cell, where it does its'
work. See my response to Charlie.

I'm attracted to weird kind of stuff. I love Tupelo honey. Can't find
it local stores. BUT it is the best I've come in contact with.

Bill

Tupelo Honey 6:55 Van Morrison Tupelo Honey MPEG audio file
Pop 3/23/09 12:52 PM

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

[Steve Peek]

"phorbin" wrote in message
...
In article wildbilly-2E5192.20032821032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...
In article ,
phorbin wrote:

In article wildbilly-7CDA27.10210721032009@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...

Latest Scientific American, April '09, article (Saving the Honey Bee,
pg. 40) claims the a virus, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV), and
some mitigating factors like poor nutrition, and exposure to
pesticides
are responsible for CCD.

The mitigating factors sound like primary causes to me.

Are they claiming it for a fact, probability or possibility?

Nutrition, by itself, as well as pesticids by themselves, were ruled out
as a cause of CCD. Samples of bees were tossed into a VERY high tech
blender and the resulting DNA was sequenced to see what was inside the
bees, besides the bees. They found 8 bacteria that had been identified
in previous studies, 2 nosema species (?), 2 fungi, and several bee
viruses.

Nosema Apis and Nosema Ceranae... related to fungi.

Wikipedia has an article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosema_apis

While I'm sure you're aware of the following site, just for the record
The UK Beekeepers have a good diseases page.

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/articles/bee_diseases.php

One virus stood out because it had never been identifies in the U.S.
before; IAPV. IAPV was first identified in 2004 at the Hebrew University
of Jerusalem. IAPV was identified by the article as having been present
in almost all, but not all, cases of CCD that they studied. It was
present in one colony of bees not exhibiting CCD symptoms. The strong
correlation isn't proof that CCD is caused by IAPV. There is a
possibility that CCD weakened the bees and made them vulnerable t
a IAPV infection.

For more, read the article, or see http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/ .


From a beekeeper's point of view, nosema= bee diarhea.
Steve
Thanks for posting the link. I'm familiar with the site, just a few
months out of date. Been busy with a neighbourhood vs parking lot
expansion.

I'll read the article at the library tomorrow.

[Billy[_7_]]

In article , Charlie wrote:

I will not accept as nutritionally dangerous, in moderation, as with
all things, and part of a, how shall we say it?....proper diet.

Uh, your kidding, right? Sorry, sometimes I' a little slow.

Yeah, that's what the manufactures of junk food say.

I'm sorry Bill. Honest, if I find out that sex is bad for one, I won't
tell you, but this is just freakin' honey ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is
now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of
conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html